Salter Street Block | 41 m | 12 fl | Cancelled

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

This project still seems very vague. How much prep do they have to do before putting footings in? Will they be building all of the components of the development at the same time? Anybody know if they have secured financing for this project?

I'm not sure if this is more stalling because of the market or if they just need more time for construction.

Could be a bit of both.
Although as I understand it; so long as they begin site preparations and get something going they should be okay.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

This project still seems very vague. How much prep do they have to do before putting footings in? Will they be building all of the components of the development at the same time? Anybody know if they have secured financing for this project?

I'm not sure if this is more stalling because of the market or if they just need more time for construction.

Or is it a problem with getting financing? Apartment vacancy rates are down in Halifax http://www.cmhc.ca/en/corp/nero/nere/2010/2010-06-15-0815.cfm to 2.5% from 3.8% so there should be a market. Hopefully it is just time required for design.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Or is it a problem with getting financing? Apartment vacancy rates are down in Halifax http://www.cmhc.ca/en/corp/nero/nere/2010/2010-06-15-0815.cfm to 2.5% from 3.8% so there should be a market. Hopefully it is just time required for design.

its the hotel part that is hurting the project. Financing for Hotels is just about non existent.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Could be a bit of both.
Although as I understand it; so long as they begin site preparations and get something going they should be okay.

Does anyone know if Centennial has an out clause in their lease, or is it just WDCL that has the out of Centennial does start by the agreed date? What I am wondering is whether Centennial is going to be motivated to build because they will be on the hook for leasing costs regardless, or if they can just get out of the lease if they choose.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by beyeas

Does anyone know if Centennial has an out clause in their lease, or is it just WDCL that has the out of Centennial does start by the agreed date? What I am wondering is whether Centennial is going to be motivated to build because they will be on the hook for leasing costs regardless, or if they can just get out of the lease if they choose.

the document would be registered against the property, therefore if you had access to property online you could review the terms.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by sdm

the document would be registered against the property, therefore if you had access to property online you could review the terms.

Hhmmm if only I had a girlfriend who was a lawyer and could look these things up... LOL

I'll see what I can do! ;-)

[sdm]

Originally Posted by beyeas

Hhmmm if only I had a girlfriend who was a lawyer and could look these things up... LOL

I'll see what I can do! ;-)

I am pretty sure there is no out clause for the developer, only the WDCL

[someone123]

I wonder why they stuck with hotel. Why not just do all apartments or condos?

[Phalanx]

The hotel could still be a good investment. Especially if the new convention centre goes through.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by someone123

I wonder why they stuck with hotel. Why not just do all apartments or condos?

i believe they would need to amend the development agreement first, and there maybe a requirement by WDCL requiring it be built with one.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

The hotel could still be a good investment. Especially if the new convention centre goes through.

Based on the latest PKF report building a new hotel would be the worse investment one could make (my opinion of course). Hence why lending requirements of 50% loan to value in cash is required. The occupancy rates for the entire city are hovering around just 61%, which is very low.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Credit: Barque Picton Castle on Flickr

[reddog794]

That's an interesting photo, The crowded boardwalk, the nautical inflatables, the waffle iron, kind of looks like a submarine conning tower.

[hfxtradesman]

There was some movement on the lot today. They were removing the booth for the parking stand.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Credit: Barque Picton Castle on Flickr

It would be nice to see The Centennial Group swap lots with Rank Inc. This waterfront lot would be spectacular for a combo Performing Arts Centre and Convention Centre. This could then be cost shared. The waterfront lot is approx. 20% larger than the Herald/Midtown lot.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Empire

It would be nice to see The Centennial Group swap lots with Rank Inc. This waterfront lot would be spectacular for a combo Performing Arts Centre and Convention Centre. This could then be cost shared. The waterfront lot is approx. 20% larger than the Herald/Midtown lot.

The Salter project is much too far along for something like that to happen, and Centennial doesn't own the land.

The Waterfront Warehouse site could also handle a large development, and there is a big open lot in behind going up to Hollis Street.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by someone123

The Salter project is much too far along for something like that to happen, and Centennial doesn't own the land.

The Waterfront Warehouse site could also handle a large development, and there is a big open lot in behind going up to Hollis Street.

If the Salter project is so far along where are the pile drivers. It could be another year before they break ground. Who owns the land? The WDC had to sign off on the proposal and that was supposed to be one of the holdups. It's a prime parcel of waterfrontproperty and if Centennial can't make it happen then they should be looking at options.

[someone123]

Centennial has a year to have footings in the ground at the Salter site. Presumably both signed a contract to that effect, along with some other previous agreements (not sure what the WDC committed to after the initial RFP).

Should the convention centre also be delayed for another year so that they can possibly use the Salter site? As I've pointed out, there are other waterfront sites available. To me it seems like the establishment of a convoluted series of dependencies (swap sites, then maybe swap again, add in a performing arts centre, waffle back and forth over building heights, etc. etc.) is exactly what leads to so many delays whenever the government is involved in development in Halifax.

I was slightly annoyed over the Nova Centre proposal to begin with because there was a simpler earlier mixed-use proposal for the Herald lands that got totally derailed and is now being delayed because of the government. It's possible that if there had been no convention centre talk we'd have a construction site right now. The downtown is in paralysis because every few years a wrench is thrown into the works (heritage districts, financial industry collapse, or whatever) and it takes 5+ years to get things approved and going - you can't have projects well-suited to local economics with that kind of business climate.

I also have doubts that another company would be more capable than Centennial of acquiring financing for a similar project for that site. They've done many major developments in the city in the past. Part of their issue is that they have a hotel and some other components - perhaps they will start the apartment development separately or something similar. That would make a lot of sense and in the meantime the second building site could be public space. I wonder why they did the hotel in the first place when from the perspective of public enjoyment of the waterfront there's zero difference between that and apartments.

I am still cautiously optimistic about this project because it seems like something that a lot of effort has gone into, it has been consistently talked about, and it recently was the subject of a final agreement.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by someone123

I was slightly annoyed over the Nova Centre proposal to begin with because there was a simpler earlier mixed-use proposal for the Herald lands that got totally derailed and is now being delayed because of the government. It's possible that if there had been no convention centre talk we'd have a construction site right now. The downtown is in paralysis because every few years a wrench is thrown into the works (heritage districts, financial industry collapse, or whatever) and it takes 5+ years to get things approved and going - you can't have projects well-suited to local economics with that kind of business climate.

I also have doubts that another company would be more capable than Centennial of acquiring financing for a similar project for that site. They've done many major developments in the city in the past. Part of their issue is that they have a hotel and some other components - perhaps they will start the apartment development separately or something similar. That would make a lot of sense and in the meantime the second building site could be public space. I wonder why they did the hotel in the first place when from the perspective of public enjoyment of the waterfront there's zero difference between that and apartments.

I am still cautiously optimistic about this project because it seems like something that a lot of effort has gone into, it has been consistently talked about, and it recently was the subject of a final agreement.

Good points. I'm not sure if you are referring to the original Midtown tower concept being derailed... but I liked those renderings and didn't like how the proposal was quashed.

They brought in boxes of stuff for all of the details, so I hope the consultants produced very convincing business cases and everything else is in proper order.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by someone123

Centennial has a year to have footings in the ground at the Salter site. Presumably both signed a contract to that effect, along with some other previous agreements (not sure what the WDC committed to after the initial RFP).

Should the convention centre also be delayed for another year so that they can possibly use the Salter site? As I've pointed out, there are other waterfront sites available.

It seems like that is exactly the convoluted series of dependencies that leads to so many delays whenever the government is involved in development in Halifax. Because there is no clear leadership and planning there is always waffling about what should be built, where it should be build, what it should include, etc.

This council has one thing to its credit....."PARKING LOTS" Either because they created them or they can't get them developed. Infirmary, International Place, Brewery Market, TexPark, Herald Building/Midtown, Birks, Trinity Anglican, Salter, VG and soon to be St. Pats & QEH. You are right, the indecisive nature of HRM has lead to so many delays that many projects will just die. One developer that seems to have a handle on council/planning is the Fares group. To be able to move The Trillum and King's Wharf so quickly is unheard of in this town.