Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[officedweller]

Rerouting of buses was one of the major problems with closing Commercial Drive - the reroute was down on Clark Drive.
Because of the distance between major arterials, it really makes it inconvenient for residents who live along the rerouted section and customers to walk back to the closed section.
i.e. for the Main St. closure - the reroute is on Fraser (there's a reason that there are normally parallel routes on Main and Fraser - the distance between is too far.

[racc]

Originally Posted by awvan

So dumb. There is a Bikeway/Greenway one block west on Ontario. Why close all of Main? Especially to buses?! I was going to furniture shopping on antique row on sunday, not going to bother anymore.

How about actually checking it out before judging it? It is basically a street party. You might actually have some fun. Always a good idea to have an informed opinion.

[lezard]

Originally Posted by racc

How about actually checking it out before judging it? It is basically a street party. You might actually have some fun. Always a good idea to have an informed opinion.

30'000 other zealots are expected to be having some fun. I'm going to try to make it to at least one of the festivals.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by awvan

I am seriously dumbfounded at the amount of traffic lanes the CoV is removing. Now they want to get rid of traffic lanes on the Cambie Street bridge? Have they ever been over that bridge? The sidewalks are huge! And why are bike lanes necessary on Main, Quebec AND Ontario (which is already a "Greenway"/"Bikeway"). Sorry, but this is beyond excessive.

Right, so the recommendation of an advisory committee to study all reasonable options and begin a planning process is "beyond excessive". No one said that there should be redundant separated lanes on three adjacent, parallel streets. All that was advised is that a proper study of the options should include those particular options (amongst others). No rational person would find this contentious.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by racc

How about actually checking it out before judging it? It is basically a street party. You might actually have some fun. Always a good idea to have an informed opinion.

I've been so I'll judge: most of the vendors can be found at any of the City's Farmers Markets, those that aren't are businesses already on Main Street.

I don't expect you to acknowledge it, but public transit is a far more accessible tool to get people out of their cars year-round than bikes. And nothings irks transit users more than inconsistency. Ad hoc detours of bus routes aren't the way to win people over to transit.

[lezard]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I've been so I'll judge: most of the vendors can be found at any of the City's Farmers Markets, those that aren't are busiensses already on Main Street.

I don't expect you to acknowledge it, but public transit is a far more accessible tool to get people out of their cars year-round than bikes. And nothings irks transit users more than inconsistency. Ad hoc detours of bus routes aren't the way to win people over to transit.

Translink regularly reroutes for many different reasons: construction, roadworks, etc... Most if not all are planned ahead and well advertised.

The car free days are planned well in advance and thus not ad-hoc.

Why you believe the car free day is targeted at convincing people to take up cycling is unclear.

[racc]

Well, for those of you who claim that reallocating lanes of traffic on Burrard Bridge and Dunsmuir is going to cause businesses to flee downtown, looks like that is not happening. Instead, the rental downtown office space is faring really well compared to that in the suburbs.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Downtown+office+market+rebounds/3169725/story.html

Downtown office market rebounds

BY DERRICK PENNER, VANCOUVER SUN JUNE 18, 2010

Downtown Vancouver's office leasing market has bounced back due to a stream of infrastructure projects while Metro Vancouver suburban markets continue to struggle with the contraction of their American branch-plant tenants, says one commercial realtor.

Downtown's office vacancy rate, which swelled during the recession, shrank to 4.8 per cent in the first quarter of 2010, Cushman & Wakefield Ltd. reported in its Mid-Year Office & Industrial Outlook report.

"It would seem that the downtown market has certainly all but repaired itself," Jeffrey Rank, Cushman & Wakefield's managing director in Vancouver, said in an interview.

A year and a half ago, companies were making a lot of office space available for sublease to save money. Now, Rank said, "most of the sublease space that was out there has been accounted for and vacancy rates are now under five per cent."

Nationally, Cushman & Wakefield found that Canada's 12 major markets "stood up better than expected during the global recession," although there have been rough spots.

Calgary, for instance, will have seen 7.5 million square feet of new office space built by 2012, but its natural-gas industry firms are struggling in a low-price environment, which has "put heavy brakes on office demand."

Toronto, on the other hand, saw some 4.5 million square feet of new office space come on stream as the recession hit, but its vacancy statistics have "exceeded expectations" in the first quarter of 2010, says the report.

In Vancouver, at the recession's height, Rank estimated up to one million of downtown's 29 million square feet of office space was available for sublease. Today, less than 300,000 square feet remains on the market, with few large single spaces left.

Rank said the intervening period gave a lot of firms already located downtown room to consolidate operations or expand. Many of them were involved in infrastructure projects, such as the Port Mann Bridge replacement and construction of roads.

"We're seeing [leasing from] the software and gaming side to some degree," Rank added, "but the main driver in terms of major expansion has been engineering and consulting and architectural firms," that serve the infrastructure sector.

Rents for downtown's premium view spaces have climbed back to peak-of-the-market levels of about $38-$40 per square foot, Cushman & Wakefield said in its report.

Non-view rents downtown are averaging $25 per square foot in the first quarter of 2010, not quite peak levels but rising, which Cushman & Wakefield believes will put pressure on tenants to look for less expensive accommodations in the suburbs.

However, suburban markets have seen vacancies rise to 12.4 per cent in the first quarter of 2010 from 11.7 per cent in the same quarter a year ago as new office buildings added to inventory while the recession choked demand.

[email protected]

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

[twoNeurons]

Though I don't know how bike lanes would affect that one way or another.

[wrenegade]

I guess my frustration at all of this is I fail to see how this increases the appeal of biking in the city. As was mentioned above, this is basically a big street party. It's a one-off thing and I was probably overreacting. I still maintain that even a study to look at bike lanes on Main and Quebec is excessive. It's not like the CoV is flush with money. I know there has been talk of a BIXI network here, but has there been a study by the city? Or how about a pilot program for a neighbourhood like the West End? I just think that there are better ways of spending limited funds than studying a gazillion bike lanes in places where they may not really be needed. Speaking of studies, was there one done for Dunsmuir, or did they just jump into the testing phase?

[lezard]

Originally Posted by awvan

I guess my frustration at all of this is I fail to see how this increases the appeal of biking in the city. As was mentioned above, this is basically a big street party. It's a one-off thing and I was probably overreacting. I still maintain that even a study to look at bike lanes on Main and Quebec is excessive. It's not like the CoV is flush with money. I know there has been talk of a BIXI network here, but has there been a study by the city? Or how about a pilot program for a neighbourhood like the West End? I just think that there are better ways of spending limited funds than studying a gazillion bike lanes in places where they may not really be needed. Speaking of studies, was there one done for Dunsmuir, or did they just jump into the testing phase?

If the city were to implement more bike paths without studying the effects these may have on other traffic users, many here would jump down their throat for acting hastily.

You yourself wonder whether Dunsmuir was planned or just sort of "the hell with it, let's do it". Then you find that a study planned for an East End Bike route is excessive.

You also want a study by the city for any Bixi type of system.

Hard to please citizens like you. The city's budget is tight and therefore the city has to know that what it is implementing will have bang for its buck.

Residents who cycle have as much right to safe routes as any other traffic user, and it's part of the city's mandate to insure all residents can move around the city safely. Studies help them do that.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by racc

Well, for those of you who claim that reallocating lanes of traffic on Burrard Bridge and Dunsmuir is going to cause businesses to flee downtown, looks like that is not happening. Instead, the rental downtown office space is faring really well compared to that in the suburbs.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Downtown+office+market+rebounds/3169725/story.html

I'll have to concede that. Certainly, in the three days since the new bike lane was opened, there seems to be no evidence of business's fleeing Vancouver. So far, so good.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by racc

If you actually bothered to do any research before posting, you would have known that most merchants really liked the one day car free festivals. It was the lower key Summer Spaces, the on-going car free days every weekend that some merchants didn't like as much although some did. In particular, the Commercial Drive Summer Spaces was less successful. That said, I believe the Gastown one was well received.

Fair enough. I was just going by the newspaper articles which said that it the car free days on Commercial were canceled last year because they were hurting the businesses on the street. No doubt, there's other research available which says that some people liked it.

[lezard]

Originally Posted by IanS

Fair enough. I was just going by the newspaper articles which said that it the car free days on Commercial were canceled last year because they were hurting the businesses on the street. No doubt, there's other research available which says that some people liked it.

Newspaper articles were talking of the Summer spaces program which apparently wasn't as popular as the single Carfree festival day.

Two different things.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by lezard

Newspaper articles were talking of the Summer spaces program which apparently wasn't as popular as the single Carfree festival day.

Two different things.

Gotcha. I confess I confused the two. So it was the Summer Spaces program that was canceled because it was hurting local businesses, while the single Carfree Festival days are ok.

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by lezard

If the city were to implement more bike paths without studying the effects these may have on other traffic users, many here would jump down their throat for acting hastily.

You yourself wonder whether Dunsmuir was planned or just sort of "the hell with it, let's do it". Then you find that a study planned for an East End Bike route is excessive.

Well ya, because I think the potential upside for biking on Dunsmuir is greater than that of addition bike lanes on Main or Quebec and I think the potential harm to vehicle traffic on Dunsmuir is also greater. I'm not against studies, I'm against studies in the wrong places, especially, as you said, the city hasn't much money to spread around

You also want a study by the city for any Bixi type of system.

Yes, it is my opinion that a BIXI system would do more to increase biking in this city than all of these bike lanes combined. I'm not much of a cyclist, I don't own any sort of bike, and I was in Montreal for 3 days and used the BIXI half a dozen times. It was simple, cheap, worked well with the Metro stations and I used one bike lane the entire time. Hence my opinion that I think it is the best option for the city and why I think limited funds for studies should be spent here.

Hard to please citizens like you. The city's budget is tight and therefore the city has to know that what it is implementing will have bang for its buck.

Residents who cycle have as much right to safe routes as any other traffic user, and it's part of the city's mandate to insure all residents can move around the city safely. Studies help them do that.

I don't disagree with you there. However, as I mentioned before, for those residents in the Mt. Pleasant/Riley Park area there are already Bikeways on 8th, Ontario and 37th. Studying another north-south route a block away seems excessive. A study (if they didn't do one) for Dunsmuir (or some other east-west downtown route) would make sense as there currently isn't really a "safe" route. I honestly don't know if a study was done.

I might be rambling now. I think we're kinda after the same thing, ways to make cycling better for the city. I personally think a bike-share program to get more people on bikes in the first place is more important than increasing capacity and hoping use follows. "Build it and they will come" doesn't always work.

[racc]

Originally Posted by IanS

I'll have to concede that. Certainly, in the three days since the new bike lane was opened, there seems to be no evidence of business's fleeing Vancouver. So far, so good.

Thanks, I guess. And, don't forget, it has been almost a year since the Burrard Bridge Trial began.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by awvan

I don't disagree with you there. However, as I mentioned before, for those residents in the Mt. Pleasant/Riley Park area there are already Bikeways on 8th, Ontario and 37th. Studying another north-south route a block away seems excessive.

Dude, you're talking about a recommendation by the bicycling advisory committee to include those routes as options to be included in a discussion, I quote, "in conjunction with North East False Creek and the South East False Creek planning processes".

There's nothing binding here. There's no study happening. There's no money being spent. Boiled down it's just a recommendation that the city consider talking about these options as a part of planning processes that are happening anyways around False Creek. It's basically a squeak from the bike committee saying "don't forget about us".

Now, if you think it's a waste of words to talk about this stuff and that the status quo is fine, then this forum has no purpose either. To pretend you are "dumbfounded" by this "massive excess" is just melodrama.

[deasine]

Everything's starting to get way too personal here. Tone it down please.

[racc]

Originally Posted by awvan

I personally think a bike-share program to get more people on bikes in the first place is more important than increasing capacity and hoping use follows. "Build it and they will come" doesn't always work.

It is pretty much critical to the success of a shared bike system to have a good bicycle network, including separated lanes on commercial streets, before introducing shared bicycles. If there isn't, the usage won't be great and there will be lots of people riding on sidewalks to get to shops, transit stations and businesses.

Paris spent ten years improving bicycle routes before introducing their shared bicycle program and it was a huge success. Meanwhile, Brussels introduced a system without improving bike routes first and it was pretty much a failure.

[cabotp]

It would be nice when you push the button to activate the light that you don't have to wait forever. During the day I can understand that if someone has just pushed the button and gone through and I come along that there is going to be a bit of a wait. But at 12:30am when I'm cycling up glen/windsor and I get to Broadway or Kingsway or King Edward and I push the button the light should change quickly and not sit there like a dodo bird.

A lot of times I'll get to Broadway and push the button. Now the walk signal as is active for the direction perpendicular to mine. It stays as is with no traffic in sight. I push the button. Eventually I say screw it and just cycle through the red. I get the same problem at Kingsway as well. Even at King Edward it is damn slow and I eventually just give up and stop waiting.

I can understand during the day. But not late at night. Hell I've seen major intersections that change as soon as car pulls up over a sensor.