Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[tybuilding]

Surrey has some pretty good plans for Greenway (off street path) cycling expansion in the coming years, hopefully it will not take too long for some of these Greenways to be built:
http://www.surrey.ca/NR/rdonlyres/225EE051-B4F0-49D5-B989-5B2A20D873C0/54907/greenwaysmaster.pdf

They are also planning to have a 70km cycling loop Page 18 of this document:
http://www.surrey.ca/NR/rdonlyres/524167...yBicycleRecreationFacilitiesStrategy.pdf

What would be good though is for Surrey to develop more secondary route cycling such as what Vancouver has with local streets connected to form continous family cycling routes. Vancouver has many routes on streets like 10th Ave and Ontairo St. while Surrey's cycle routes are exclusively placed on more main 2 lane and 4 lane streets with shoulders.

[duener]

Thanks for the pics! It looks great.

Hopefully they'll use a lot more paint on the pavement to instruct people where to go. E.g. instead of signs showing "no right turn" it would make sense to have arrows painted in the car lanes showing "only straight ahead". As well, some painted lines across the entrance to the lane section would make sense.

A lot of coloured paint would go along away to warn drivers crossing into and out of the space.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

Surrey has some pretty good plans for Greenway (off street path) cycling expansion in the coming years, hopefully it will not take too long for some of these Greenways to be built:
http://www.surrey.ca/NR/rdonlyres/225EE051-B4F0-49D5-B989-5B2A20D873C0/54907/greenwaysmaster.pdf

They are also planning to have a 70km cycling loop Page 18 of this document:
http://www.surrey.ca/NR/rdonlyres/524167...yBicycleRecreationFacilitiesStrategy.pdf

What would be good though is for Surrey to develop more secondary route cycling such as what Vancouver has with local streets connected to form continous family cycling routes. Vancouver has many routes on streets like 10th Ave and Ontairo St. while Surrey's cycle routes are exclusively placed on more main 2 lane and 4 lane streets with shoulders.

Surrey doesn't have a street grid like Vancouver. There is no such thing as continuous secondary streets just a couple blocks off main roads. I think the Greenways plan you linked to above with be a satisfactory separated cycling network, at least to begin with.

[jlousa]

This morning I was speaking with a very respected business man whose office overlooks the new bike lane. He stated that this morning he witnessed two fights between cyclists and pedestrians. The police attended one of them. Hopefully not a sign of things to come, but definitely shows that there is tension.

As for cycling share, on a micro level, the building I work at has seen a 10-30% decrease in cyclists yoy depending on the day and weather. On the same note our parkade has also seen a decrease of ~10%. The amount of workers has actually increased by ~10% so it appears transit/walking are gaining the most momentum.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by racc

Even if there is congestion that does increase travel times for a small portion of the day, it is not certain pollution would be increased. Fuel economy is worse for higher speeds in the stop and go traffic downtown. If the lack of congestion just leads to people travelling fast between stop lights, then congestion would actually improve fuel economy and decrease pollution. As well, much of the congestion would be on the up hill sections where greater acceleration would lead to more pollution.

As more and more people drive hybrids, congestion can actually improve fuel economy as no fuel is used while the car is stopped and more fuel is used at higher speeds.

Hmmm.. so, if the bike lane reduces car use, and takes cares off the road, it reduces pollution.

And if the bike lane causes increased congestion, leading to longer trips and thus more car use, it reduces pollution.

lol...

Bike lanes... is there anything they can't do?

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by duener

Thanks for the pics! It looks great.

Hopefully they'll use a lot more paint on the pavement to instruct people where to go. E.g. instead of signs showing "no right turn" it would make sense to have arrows painted in the car lanes showing "only straight ahead". As well, some painted lines across the entrance to the lane section would make sense.

A lot of coloured paint would go along away to warn drivers crossing into and out of the space.

Canadian cities in general do a terrible job at marking roads and replacing them when they fade.

If you want to see very well marked roads with many reflectors, thick paint, even studded rumble paint and LEDs in the pavement, go to Japan or Europe.

I can understand why cities in the East and the Prairies have trouble keeping their markings from fading, but not in the south west coast.

In fact we have terrible road maintenance in general, and that affects those driving cars, riding bikes and pedestrians. And in an area like the south west coast, there is more than enough people / density to justify well maintained roads.

For example, in Maple Ridge many of the bike lanes and cross walks are useless because most of them are completely faded and gone. No point having something if you are not going to maintain it. Same with turning arrows, general lane markings, etc...

I will say at the very least I am happy to see they are using curbs on this bike lane rather than the terribly ugly concrete dividers. they are ok on the viaduct but they ruin the look of the Burrard bridge.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I will say at the very least I am happy to see they are using curbs on this bike lane rather than the terribly ugly concrete dividers. they are ok on the viaduct but they ruin the look of the Burrard bridge.

They sure will keep the cars out of the bike lane though!

I'm confident the concrete dividers will be replaced in the short term. They're just quick and easy-to-install physical barriers. Once the "trial" is wrapped up on Burrard and Dunsmuir, the permanent installations will be much nicer.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

Surrey doesn't have a street grid like Vancouver. There is no such thing as continuous secondary streets just a couple blocks off main roads. I think the Greenways plan you linked to above with be a satisfactory separated cycling network, at least to begin with.

There are some streets that work.
- A greenway with path and residential streets cycling route could potentially follow 76th Ave and 74th Ave from 168st to 120th Street. From 152st to King George Highway you can already cycle on residential streets and paths, these could be upgraded.

- A 126th Street route exists from Old Yale Road to 88th Ave. South of 82nd Ave the Serpentine Greenway exists. Between the 2 there needs to be a connection around the Hydro substation.
- A 134th Ave route can be followed from Gateway to 88th Ave. South of 84th Ave the route can be followed again till 78th. South of 72nd Ave you can follow the route till Highway 10. It would be good to connect the missing parts.

Mostly it is connecting the missing links and adding pedestrian crossings and route signage around diversions. These are just a few examples. The problem with Surrey is they are still adding to the connection problems in some cases, such as 150th Street crossing Fraser Highway where one could follow a route from 104th to 92nd ave on 150th street or 149th street.

[jlousa]

Looks like the Vancouver bicycle advisory committee is making more recommendations.

THAT in conjunction with North East False Creek and the South East False Creek planning processes, the City undertakes a planning process to increase bicycle and pedestrian access and capacity around and across False Creek to increase the safety of cyclists and pedestrians and to meet the potential future demand generated by new development downtown and around False Creek, improvements to the bicycle network and cycling mode share increases.

The options considered should include but not be limited to:
a. the reallocation of lane(s) of traffic on the Cambie Bridge.
b. widened sidewalks on the Cambie Bridge.
c. increased widths for bicycle and pedestrian paths along False Creek;
d. separated bike lanes on Main Street, Quebec Street, Pacific Boulevard, and Expo Boulevard.
e. upgrades to the Seaside Bypass including the closure of Charleston Road to motor vehicle traffic and improved connections with the Off Broadway Bikeway, the Heather Street Bikeway, Ash Street and the Olympic Village Canada Line Station.
f. improved bicycle path connections between bicycle routes including the Seaside Path, the Adanac Bikeway, the Central Valley Greenway and the Carrall Street Greenway.
g. improved connections to the Cambie Street Bridge including from Robson Street thought the planned Casino development.
h. the provision separate of bicycle and pedestrian paths in sections of the Seaside Path where there are currently multi-use paths.

[deasine]

Slightly late post:

(City of Vancouver, 2010)

[cabotp]

Not sure if anyone has the answer to my question. I've recently started to bike/transit to work. I was doing only transit before. But now I bike as well so I can skip waiting for and taking the bus.

I picked up the metro Vancouver cycle map. So I could have a map with me whenever I go out for a day with the bike.

My question is according to the map the Upper Levels Hwy west of Capilano Rd. Has a dedicated bike lane. Is this true? I just don't see how they could of put a lane on a freeway. It would be a suicide mission. Or is the map deceiving to me. And if so can anyone explain what exactly is going on.

[officedweller]

Bikes are prohibited on certain parts of the TransCanada Highway - there was a post in one of the threads a while back with the link to the legislation.

The bike map probably just indicates where you are legally allowed to bike on the shoulder of the highway. You do see cyclists biking up to Squamish and Whistler - even before the upgrades.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Bikes are prohibited on certain parts of the TransCanada Highway - there was a post in one of the threads a while back with the link to the legislation.

The bike map probably just indicates where you are legally allowed to bike on the shoulder of the highway. You do see cyclists biking up to Squamish and Whistler - even before the upgrades.

I figured they would allow biking on the Sea to Sky Hwy. But I assumed since you can't be on the freeway west of Abby or around there. That it would apply all the way to Horseshoe bay.

[DKaz]

You're riding on the shoulder basically, that's your dedicated bike lane.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by cabotp

I figured they would allow biking on the Sea to Sky Hwy. But I assumed since you can't be on the freeway west of Abby or around there. That it would apply all the way to Horseshoe bay.

I remember that the post refeenced that you were allowed to ride on the shoulder west of Capilano Road.

[aberdeen5698]

The new bike lanes on Dunsmuir Street are officially open. Gordon Price has done a write-up with plenty of photos in his "Price Tags" blog at: http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2010/06/15/concrete-not-paint/

From the late 80s, with the opening of the Seaside route, to the 90s, with the development of the bikeway network, Vancouver has been steadily increasing the number of kilometres designed to encourage cycling. But with the success of the Burrard Bridge lane, fully separated from passing traffic, Council gained the confidence to move forward, quickly and decisively, to introduce ‘cycle tracks’ into downtown.

Now it is possible to cycle on Dunsmuir Street from Main Street to Howe on a two-way track, separated from sidewalks and vehicle lanes, in comfort and safety.

The Mayor led a hundred or so cyclists on an inaugural parade this morning, heavily covered by media – a reflection that ‘alternative transportation’ is now not a sideshow, that Vancouver is changing into something more akin to a northern European metropolis. We’re Copenhagenizing.

It happened fast. The Engineering department moved in and transformed Dunsmuir with surprising speed – and not just by laying in a row of Jersey barriers. They’re experimenting with several types of separation, including planters and paint and concrete dividers

But the truth is more likely found in a classic saying credited to Robert Moses, the construction coordinator of New York City: “Once you’ve poured the concrete, they’ll never make you tear it up.”

There are trade-offs. Some congestion, especially when a truck blocks one of the remaining two lanes for deliveries. Or a hotel loses a drop-off. Or right-hand turns are prohibited on some streets. The media, of course, asked about the loss of a business on Hornby Street. But the gain is in safety and eventual transformation of the city, to a place where, as more people choose other modes of transportation, more space is available for those who actually need to drive. It’s happening, but it’s incremental, and hard for the sceptics to grasp, especially when they see the change more in terms of a culture war, an implied criticism of their way of life, if not an actual threat, where territory is gained and lost.

As interesting will be the change in cycling strategies. For me, a West Ender, the east-bound use of Dunsmuir is constrained by the lack of connection to Pender Street and parts west. But for east-bound use, particularly for those coming from the Adanac Bikeway, one of the most heavily-used routes in the city, it’s brilliant – particularly since whether by design or coincidence, the signals seemed to be synched for bike speed, allowing the cyclist to get from the viaduct to about Seymour Street without stopping. Sweet.

And because the track is two-way, it won’t have the problem of ‘bike salmon’ – those who cycle upstream against the traffic on the one-way tracks that characterize New York’s avenues. (For more on that, see Price Tags 108.)

So congratulations to all who made this possible: the politicians, the city staff, the activists and the citizens – some of who are pictured after the break.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by DKaz

You're riding on the shoulder basically, that's your dedicated bike lane.

So a suicide mission.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by cabotp

So a suicide mission.

I've ridden on the shoulder of busy, high-speed arterials (Lougheed Highway, for example) and haven't felt like my life was in danger. If the shoulder is wide enough then there's plenty of room and I never feel like I'm going to be sideswiped.

But I'm totally sympathetic to your point of view, and it demonstrates perfectly why Vancouver needs separated bike lanes if it expects to increase the share of cycling commuters on busy streets. And from a cyclist's point of view every street downtown is a busy street.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I've ridden on the shoulder of busy, high-speed arterials (Lougheed Highway, for example) and haven't felt like my life was in danger. If the shoulder is wide enough then there's plenty of room and I never feel like I'm going to be sideswiped.

But I'm totally sympathetic to your point of view, and it demonstrates perfectly why Vancouver needs separated bike lanes if it expects to increase the share of cycling commuters on busy streets. And from a cyclist's point of view every street downtown is a busy street.

I've ridden on the shoulder of the Coquihalla Highway. Was camping and just wanted to do something for the day. So rode out the to highway and rode along the shoulder for a few KM before turning back. And I've ridden along other highways as well for short stints. One just has to be much more alert as things are moving a lot faster.

I only said the suicide thing because even though I'm on the shoulder it still means I would have to look out behind me every time I come up to an off ramp. Luckily though it isn't overly busy. So crossing shouldn't be hard so long as one is quick about it.

[DKaz]

I drove to work today and used Dunsmuir. Traffic was negligible at 6am so I can't comment on that but the bike lanes themselves look very refined and urban, I now feel like we have a downtown street to compete with Portland and Montreal. That 3rd lane was next to useless anyway, buses would layover on that lane causing frustration to drivers hoping to go through. Although drivers are now forced onto two lanes by a physical barrier, removing these frustrating merges should help smooth traffic flow.

It's great that they managed to keep some parking... although I wonder if they'll be metered. Certainly opportunities for free parking for early birds at the moment.