HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure


View Poll Results: Would you like to separate this thread for individual station projects?
Yes 19 31.15%
No 42 68.85%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #501  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2010, 7:29 AM
hollywoodnorth's Avatar
hollywoodnorth hollywoodnorth is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Downtown Vancouver
Posts: 6,395
so where are we with the MAIN STREET SKYTRAIN STATION RENOVATION?

is it "frozen"? or are there funds coming from elsewhere to get it on the go?

June of this year it was supposed to close for a month or 2 I thought.....?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #502  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2010, 9:05 AM
GeeCee's Avatar
GeeCee GeeCee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Port Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 2,816
The Main St and Metrotown renos are on hold, I believe.

I don't see how you could put faregates in either station though, so I'd imagine that they will receive at least partial renovations as part of the faregate project.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #503  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 3:58 AM
jlousa's Avatar
jlousa jlousa is offline
Ferris Wheel Hater
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,371
Going to revive a dead thread.

Translink has just issued an RFP for conceptual design - Phase 2 of Commercial Broadway, interesting tidbits, like the longterm planning of the B-Line and no mention of the UBC line. I agree with parts of it, but feel some of it is a little over the top. Anyways I took the time to cut out the juicier tidbits and I've provided links to the whole thing for the info junkies.

Quote:
1.2 Approximately 150,000 people use Commercial-Broadway Station on a typical weekday, making it the busiest station in the entire Metro Vancouver transit network. Connections between the Expo Line, the Millennium Line, the 99 B-Line express bus to UBC and other local bus routes all happen at this location. The station‟s evolution, however, has occurred incrementally, on constrained sites, and with key functional elements designed in isolation of each other. This has resulted in severe congestion during the morning

peak, with long queues at key station “choke points” on an almost daily basis.

1.3 Expo Line ridership is growing at over 4% per year and at a greater rate than population growth due to:

(a) The increasing shift away from private automobile use;

(b) Improved connecting bus services, including higher frequencies on existing routes and new routes being added;

(c) Increased system ridership capacity provided by additional SkyTrain cars; and

(d) Development and densification around the Expo Line stations.

1.4 As ridership grows and places increased demand on the system, particularly its major transfer points, the crowding at Commercial-Broadway Station in its current configuration will worsen. This may dissuade new riders from using transit and could potentially result in current transit users choosing to return to private automobiles for their daily commute. TransLink and Provincial plans both call for an increase in transit mode share in Metro Vancouver, and in order to achieve this, additional capacity must be added to the system.



1.5 Increasing the number of SkyTrain vehicles will help address the overall system crowding, but the benefit of investment in new trains will not be fully realized without upgrades to the most heavily used Expo Line stations.



1.9 Despite the success of the Phase 1 improvements, a number of passenger flow and capacity issues within Commercial-Broadway Station still need to be addressed. Transfers between the Millennium Line (Commercial Station) and Expo Line (Broadway Station) are heavy during peak periods, and the current vertical circulation configuration generates significant queuing following the arrival of a train. It is anticipated that the situation will become further exacerbated over time, as passenger demand continues to increase. The primary circulation issues are:

(a) The vertical access points between the North Concourse (Commercial Station) and the Broadway passerelle;

(b) Platform crowding at Broadway Station, although improved, is anticipated to become severe again within the short- to medium-term, as ridership continues to increase and new rapid transit lines are added to the system; and

(c) Congestion due to conflicts between various passenger flow directions, particularly at the bottom of the escalators in the North Concourse.



2.3 The following issues were identified at Commercial-Broadway Station in the Expo Line Station Review (TransLink, 2007) and the Commercial-Broadway Station Capacity Analysis (VIA Architecture, 2007):

(a) Expo Line Platform Congestion

1. Despite the recent increase in train capacity, with the addition of new vehicles, the Expo Line platform regularly experiences crowding during peak hours, although not to the same degree as before Phase 1 was completed. Passenger pass-ups still occur, which is a main contributor to platform crowding during peak hours. It is estimated that the platform capacity needs to be approximately doubled to alleviate congestion and provide an adequate level of service for waiting passengers.

2. Recent studies have indicated that an outboard platform to the east of Platform 3 may be the only viable solution. While desirable from a passenger capacity and flow perspective, this configuration creates several challenges, due to existing buildings abutting the east side of the station.

(b) Broadway Passerelle & Vertical Circulation Congestion

1. Approximately 65 to 70 percent of the passengers boarding and alighting at the Broadway Station platform travel to/from the North Concourse via the Broadway passerelle, which provides a connection to the Millennium Line and the #99 B-Line heading westbound to UBC. The throughput capacity of the Broadway passerelle and the vertical circulation elements which connect it to the North Concourse are therefore considered to be the most critical elements facilitating passenger flows. It is estimated that the vertical circulation capacity at this location must be doubled to relieve current congestion and provide long-term capacity to meet demand.

(c) #99 B-Line Queuing

1. The 99 B-Line carries 52,000 passengers on an average weekday during the school year and 1,950 passengers in the AM peak hour. The current bus stop waiting area was not designed to handle the current passenger volumes that the B-Line generates.

2. The queues for the #99 B-Line express bus route, which are significant during peak periods, currently have only partial weather protection and obstruct the sidewalk on the northeast corner of the street intersection of Commercial Drive and Broadway. The queues frequently spill into the North Concourse area, which already contains many other functions and activities including: large volume of passenger transfers from Commercial Station to Broadway Station, transfers from #99 B-Line to SkyTrain, retail shops and designated space for kiosk vendors. The eventual introduction of fare gates will create additional congestion and circulation challenges for the North Concourse and will likely require the B-Line queue to be re-routed.



Concept Design Confirmation Phase

1. Core functional elements of the station upgrade have been identified in the

preliminary concept studies done to date. In addition, TransLink has initiated a fare gates project which will see fare gates implemented system wide by January 2013. TransLink has retained a separate consultant team for the detailed design of the fare gates project and will be advising the Commercial-Broadway Station consultant team on the spatial and circulation requirements associated with fare gates. Likewise, TransLink has retained a separate Code Consultant, who is specialised in transit station-related code issues, and will be advising the Commercial-Broadway Station consultant team throughout the design process (in both project phases of this contract) through intermittent code reviews.

2. These core elements, together with the fare gates initiative, will be the basis for further evaluation in this stage of the project with the objective of yielding a confirmed, comprehensive conceptual strategy that addresses the needs identified for Commercial-Broadway Station. Alternate or optional considerations should be studied and documented if aspects of the core elements identified in the preliminary concept studies are deemed to compromise an effective fare gate location or configuration strategy or if they are deemed to compromise a more beneficial, comprehensive upgrade strategy. The core functional elements identified in the preliminary conceptual studies which require evaluation and confirmation include:

a. A new east outboard platform and associated vertical circulation as a well-integrated element of the Station.

b. Associated modifications related to the addition of a new east outboard platform including:

i. Modifications to the existing hoop trusses that currently terminate at the neighbouring party wall (west wall of Safeway). The existing trusses will likely need to be extended and affixed to the station structure differently than the existing configuration.

ii. Temporary provisions to support the existing hoop trusses during construction, once the party wall is removed, will need to be studied, evaluated and proposed.

iii. New roof over new east outboard platform for weather protection.

iv. New enclosure adjacent to the new east outboard platform for wind / weather protection and guardrail provisions.

3. Vertical circulation elements throughout the station including any opportunities and constraints related to the introduction of new vertical circulation to the existing station houses.

4. Integration of the future fare gates, specifically their associated location and configuration requirements with the comprehensive station upgrade strategy. This portion of the work will be done in close consultation with TransLink and the fare gates consultant team.

5. Provisions for #99 B-Line queuing – spatial allowance for line-ups, appropriate weather protection and integration with overall phase 2 upgrade strategy and existing, surrounding station
Link to RFP
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...20opportunities/q0%200025/q00025rfp.ashx


Great link to MOT's Transit Business Case document which explains a lot about project evaluations. Highly recommend reading it if you haven't already.
http://www.translink.ca/~/media/document...ness%20case%20template%20background.ashx
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #504  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 4:43 AM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
Thanks for sharing.



An outboard platform with the leftside doors opening first to let passengers out and then the inboard platform (centre platform) doors open to let passengers in? I have to say that I thought we were decades away from this, not years...

The main issue we simply have for stations like Metrotown and Broadway is that the platforms we build are just far too narrow to allow great numbers to wait for trains and circulate and forbids expansion in staircase/escalator capacity. We will most certainly see the same issues with Broadway-City Hall when the Millennium Line extension is complete...Lougheed on the other hand has plenty of space, though it would likely need more staircase/escalator capacity with the Evergreen Line load. Commercial could also use more escalator/staircase capacity.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #505  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 5:59 AM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
I took the time to cut out the juicier tidbits and I've provided links to the whole thing for the info junkies.
Very interesting reading, thanks for sharing!

A couple of comments:

a) I wonder why an east side outboard platform is required instead of an west side one? A west side platform wouldn't require tearing down part of Safeway. Is it because the hoop truss configuration makes it much more difficult to modify the station on that side? Or is there a lack of room below the guideway to support the platform without encroaching on businesses there?

b) There's mention of the platform, but no mention of how passengers would access it. I'm guessing there be a parallel passerelle across Broadway. That might impact the Shoppers below.

I haven't looked at your link yet - perhaps answers to these questions are there. I'll have to take a closer look at the station configuration the next time I'm by that way...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #506  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 6:20 AM
Mac Write Mac Write is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,423
So the Outbound isn't a new track (which I thought at first). So the outbound platform would be for inbound to Vancouver traffic? Since it's not a new track, ok makes sense. Couldn't they also make the platform area bigger by tearing down the glass on the over-head walkway, extend the floor and then wella a bigger platform?

This does show why centre platforms make sense, then they can add unloading platforms in the future.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #507  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 6:22 AM
Waders Waders is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,361
Metrotown station is actually very crowded at certain hours. It was unfortunate the planned station renovation was cancelled because of funding issue.

The study about a new east outbound platform at Commercial-Broadway Station happens a lot earlier than expected. The RFP talks about doubling the capacity of the platform and the Broadway passerelle. It mentions about providing long-term capacity to meet demand.
The expected increase of passengers transfer using the station from/to the Evergreen Line and the furthur UBC line extension seems to be a factor.

Any thought?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #508  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 7:45 AM
BCPhil BCPhil is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
a) I wonder why an east side outboard platform is required instead of an west side one? A west side platform wouldn't require tearing down part of Safeway. Is it because the hoop truss configuration makes it much more difficult to modify the station on that side? Or is there a lack of room below the guideway to support the platform without encroaching on businesses there?
It would be built on the east side of the station because that is where it is needed. The morning peak crowds around platform 3 are always larger than in the PM peak on platform 4. It's because full trains on the Millennium line completely unload and that mass of people mostly make their way up to the Expo platform very quickly. And the trains arriving don't have enough empty seats to fit everyone. To compound the problem, the crowds swarm the trains and make it difficult for people on the train to get off and free up space. If people coming up from the Millennium platforms all went onto a platform on the far east side, and all unloading took place first onto the center platform, trains could actually end up spending less time in the station and move more people (and improve AM headways).

There never seems to be as large a crowd of people coming off the 99B line waiting for Eastbound trains in the evening.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #509  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 8:00 AM
mezzanine's Avatar
mezzanine mezzanine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,011
a new separate platform makes sense. longer term, i can see this for brighouse station.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_solution
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #510  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 12:55 PM
Hed Kandi's Avatar
Hed Kandi Hed Kandi is offline
+
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,575
Anyone know when abouts we can expect Translink to start the renovations on the Main and Metrotown stations?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #511  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 4:34 PM
go_leafs_go02 go_leafs_go02 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: London, ON
Posts: 2,406
I'm guessing there's no way that a connection could be made somewhere around Commercial and VCC and allow trains to split before Commercial-Broadway (heading Surrey-bound) and therefore the extra transfer wouldn't be necessary. Just replicate exactly what is located beyond Columbia.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #512  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 5:13 PM
Zassk Zassk is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
I'm guessing there's no way that a connection could be made somewhere around Commercial and VCC and allow trains to split before Commercial-Broadway (heading Surrey-bound) and therefore the extra transfer wouldn't be necessary. Just replicate exactly what is located beyond Columbia.
That's an interesting idea, but can the downtown leg handle the extra trains?

What kind of operational nightmare would it be to try to interleave two ends of the same line together on the same track, both interleaved with a third line that runs at twice the frequency?

The long-term solution is to move as many of the M-line transfers over to Cambie & Broadway as possible.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #513  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 6:06 PM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
It would be built on the east side of the station because that is where it is needed.
Of course, d'oh! Thanks for the explanation.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #514  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 7:53 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 41,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
a) I wonder why an east side outboard platform is required instead of an west side one? A west side platform wouldn't require tearing down part of Safeway. Is it because the hoop truss configuration makes it much more difficult to modify the station on that side? Or is there a lack of room below the guideway to support the platform without encroaching on businesses there?
Outbound would mean trains travelling TO Metrotown - so the new platform would be over the alley on the west side of the station.
It doesn't say "east side" platform. It says "east outboard [sic?]" - which I take to read as "eastbound/outbound".

The issue they are discussing is that the green steel trusses "wrap-around" the outside of the guideway where the platform would be located - so the truss needs to be moved "outwards" (i.e. horizontal roof trusses lengthened) - but that would mean that the clearspan over the existing platform would be too wide without having columns to support the roof. Currently, the truss wraps around the guideway and is secured to the party wall with Safeway without any columns on the platform.

They are just saying that columns may have to be installed on the centre platform to support the wider roof structure (during and after constuction) - or a new structure built.

The new platform cannot be built on the Safeway side because Safeway isn't being demolished - yet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #515  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 8:13 PM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
It doesn't say "east side" platform. It says "east outboard [sic?]" - which I take to read as "eastbound/outbound".
Earlier in the excerpt it says:
Quote:
2. Recent studies have indicated that an outboard platform to the east of Platform 3 may be the only viable solution. While desirable from a passenger capacity and flow perspective, this configuration creates several challenges, due to existing buildings abutting the east side of the station.
...so I'm pretty confident that they're talking about taking out the Safeway wall. This is supported by the later section:
Quote:
ii. Temporary provisions to support the existing hoop trusses during construction, once the party wall is removed, will need to be studied, evaluated and proposed.
BCPhil's comments ring true to me - they need extra capacity for dealing with the inbound trains, not the outbound ones.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #516  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 9:33 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 41,804
Thanks, I missed that quote reading... "Recent studies..."

It wouldn't be wise to rely on the existing Safeway structure for any support - and the store occupies the area below where the new platform would be located (and they wouold need access fom the street).

TransLink can expropriate - so presumably they would slice a section off the back of the store - which isn't unheardof.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #517  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2010, 9:36 PM
SpongeG's Avatar
SpongeG SpongeG is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 40,127
maybe it will push safeway to get the planned move done sooner
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #518  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2010, 2:42 AM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zassk View Post
That's an interesting idea, but can the downtown leg handle the extra trains?

What kind of operational nightmare would it be to try to interleave two ends of the same line together on the same track, both interleaved with a third line that runs at twice the frequency?

The long-term solution is to move as many of the M-line transfers over to Cambie & Broadway as possible.
With the M-Line extended to City Hall (C-Line) and at minimum as far as Arbutus (if you can't afford to build all the way to UBC), those 50,000+ people transferring to B-Line buses at Commercial/Broadway will disappear because the B-Line transfer station has been moved to Arbutus. After you have removed 1/3 of the transfer traffic from this station, the only people still transferring here are those who absolutely need use the E-Line trains to get downtown (instead of staying on the M-Line train & transferring to the C-Line trains at City Hall), or those who need to transfer to the local buses (9 Broadway/UBC or 20 Victoria/Downtown)


Page 64 of BEYOND THE B-LINE explains the interlining options:
http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/transport/rto/ubcline/pdf/beyondthebline.pdf
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #519  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2010, 2:53 AM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Thanks, I missed that quote reading... "Recent studies..."

It wouldn't be wise to rely on the existing Safeway structure for any support - and the store occupies the area below where the new platform would be located (and they wouold need access fom the street).

TransLink can expropriate - so presumably they would slice a section off the back of the store - which isn't unheardof.
I thought Safeway was going to build a new structure on the east side of their lot (currently their parking lot), move into it, and then knock over the old building that butts right up to the SkyTrain inbound tracks. I read somewhere that the new Safeway store would be built with underground parking. Then when the west side of their lot is re-developed (butting into the SkyTrain station) there would be more underground parking & a commercial building with room for the Skytrain station expansion to include a new east-side loading platform for downtown Skytrain traffic.

This may be similar to what Plaza 88 is doing to connect with the New West Station:


http://www.via-architecture.com/projects/plaza88/index.html

Last edited by jsbertram; Jun 12, 2010 at 3:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #520  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2010, 3:28 AM
jsbertram jsbertram is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,245
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Outbound would mean trains travelling TO Metrotown - so the new platform would be over the alley on the west side of the station.
It doesn't say "east side" platform. It says "east outboard [sic?]" - which I take to read as "eastbound/outbound".

The issue they are discussing is that the green steel trusses "wrap-around" the outside of the guideway where the platform would be located - so the truss needs to be moved "outwards" (i.e. horizontal roof trusses lengthened) - but that would mean that the clearspan over the existing platform would be too wide without having columns to support the roof. Currently, the truss wraps around the guideway and is secured to the party wall with Safeway without any columns on the platform.

They are just saying that columns may have to be installed on the centre platform to support the wider roof structure (during and after constuction) - or a new structure built.

The new platform cannot be built on the Safeway side because Safeway isn't being demolished - yet.
"East Outboard"
- a new loading platform on the east (outboard) side of the existing inbound (downtown-bound) tracks. This space right now taken up by Safeway, whose west wall of their building is also the east wall of the Broadway SkyTrain station.

The existing platform at Broadway is 'inboard' of the two Expo line tracks. Some people would say it is centred between the tracks.

Since they will have to do so much work altering the roof structure of this station, I wonder if it makes sense to build the west outboard platform beside the existing outbound (Burnaby-bound) tracks at this time so the entire roof structure over all the platforms can be built at the same time. With both of the outboard platforms built, they would be used as train loading platforms, and the existing inboard (centered) platform would become the train exiting platform with a better connection to the M-Line platform in the Grandview Cut.

Trains would arrive, and open their doors to the exit platform first for 5-10 seconds, then the train doors to the boarding platform would open, then all doors would close & the train leaves.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:33 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.