NEW YORK | 15 Penn Plaza (Hotel Penn) | 1,050 FT / 315 M | 52 FLOORS

[NYC4Life]

Replacing a dilapidated hotel with a shimmering new skyscraper, redeveloping the area and restoring access to subway lines is asking for too much and giving back too little??

[NYguy]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manha...kw3UaFaGpfUrUwrjiM?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

But the ghostly "Gimbels passageway," a lengthy, long-forgotten underground link between Penn Station and Herald Square, may be coming back to life -- providing a free transfer point between two busy subway stations.

The 800-foot pedestrian concourse, which at some points is only a claustrophobic 9-feet wide, was walled up in the early 1980s as the city's crime rate skyrocketed and the site became a stalking ground for muggers and other criminals.

But one of the city's biggest developers, Vornado Realty Trust, wants permission to expand the narrowest section to 16 feet and fill the entire tunnel with retail shops and art.

It would accommodate 12,000 people each hour.

Straphangers would be able to transfer free between the 1, 2 and 3 lines at Seventh Avenue, and 34th Street and the N, R, W, F, B, D and V lines at Herald Square.

In exchange for the passageway and several other transit improvements, Vornado wants zoning laws changed so it can make its tower 2 million square feet, not 1.15 million square feet, as is currently allowed.

The board has only an advisory role. The city's Planning Commission will vote on the proposal in July, and then the City Council will conduct its own vote within 50 days.

This would be in effect, another expansion for Penn Station commuters, those swithing trains, even between subways. It's always an inconvenience catching the Herald Sq trains from Penn Station, and vice versa. There has been a few times when I've missed a train at Penn Station because the streets were too congested or because navigating the Herald Sq exits put me further away. Reopening this tunnel solves that problem.

[uaarkson]

The proposal is basically perfect at this point. Anyone fighting against it is a colossal idiot.

[Mr. Lion]

Originally Posted by uaarkson

The proposal is basically perfect at this point. Anyone fighting against it is a colossal idiot.

no kidding

[NYguy]

http://www.dnainfo.com/20100616/manhattan/city-will-vote-july-14-on-plan-raze-hotel-pennsylvania

City Will Vote July 14 on Plan to Raze Hotel Pennsylvania
The City Planning Commission will vote on whether to allow Vornado to turn the Pennsylvania Hotel into a 67-story office tower.



By Jill Colvin
June 16, 2010

The Hotel Pennsylvania, one of the most storied hotels in the city, where the Glenn Miller Orchestra and Duke Ellington once played, could soon be closing its doors to make way for office floors and trading space.

Despite fierce opposition to the plan by Community Board 5 and area residents, the City Planning Commission is set to make a decision on whether the project will move forward on July 14.

Under the plan, the 22-story, 1,700-room hotel, which stands around the corner from Madison Square Garden and Penn Station, would be razed to make way for a 67-story office tower.

The project, known as 15 Penn Plaza, would also include moving several subway entrances and re-opening an underground passageway under the south side of 33rd Street that would connect the Sixth and Seventh Ave. subway lines and the PATH trains.

The project is slated to be completed by 2014, according to an environmental impact statement filed with the planning commission.

Midtown resident Gregory Jones, who has spent more than three years fighting Vornado Realty Trust's plans, says that losing the hotel would be a huge blow to New York's history.

"I look around New York City and all I see is new buildings going up. What I don't see is New York of old, the old history, the old buildings," said Jones, who leads the Save The Hotel Pennsylvania Foundation.

"They don't care about our history," he said of Vornado, which acquired full rights to the hotel in 1999 and refused to comment on the project — its second attempt to develop the site.

When the hotel opened its doors in 1919, it was rumored to be the largest in the world. It boasted the world’s first “high rise” elevators and drew top entertainers, according to a Community Board 5 Landmarks Committee review.

In April, the board sent a letter to the Chair of the Department of City Planning urging the committee to vote against the project, citing concerns over overcrowding, traffic and noise.

They also maintained it would "set a troubling precedent and a tipping point for future development in the area."

But Borough President Scott Stringer overruled the Board, announcing his "conditional approval" of the project in May.

The site is "an excellent location for high density commercial growth," he maintained.

In 2007, the board's Landmarks Committee tried to landmark the building, but its petition was denied by the city's Landmarks Preservation Commission in February the next year, the New York Observer reported at the time.

As of now, the building's fate is up in the air.

If the plan is approved by the City Planning Commission, it will then have to be reviewed by the City Council, Wally Rubin, district manager of Community Board 5, said.

But Jones is expecting the worst. "The outlook looks really bleak," he said. "This is a done deal, I think."

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

Originally Posted by NYguy

http://www.dnainfo.com/20100616/manhattan/city-will-vote-july-14-on-plan-raze-hotel-pennsylvania

City Will Vote July 14 on Plan to Raze Hotel Pennsylvania
The City Planning Commission will vote on whether to allow Vornado to turn the Pennsylvania Hotel into a 67-story office tower.



By Jill Colvin
June 16, 2010

oh God wat does that mean?????

[Dac150]

^^^It means exactly what it sounds like; which is pretty specific.

Judging by some of the comments made by those who will be casting the votes, I see no reason why this won't pass through. I think people for the most part who have an influential say in things see this project for what it really is (a much needed revitalization and less of a skyscraper).

[Lecom]

It's a giant tenement that offers nothing to the public realm on the street level (except for second-rate ornamentation, which is not bad yet nothing to write home about) and even less on the upper, light-blocking, undecorated part. Sure, it's chock full of history and still has dedicated clients, so if it were being demolished for, say, a parking lot, I'd be throwing a tantrum. However, considering the replacement and how much it's gonna improve the area, the sacrifice is worth it.

[mrskyline]

I love this design. My only concern would be the effect it would have aesthetically on the Empire State Building. I wish it was farther away because I like the way the Empire State Building currently dominates that area. Do we really want to see buildings of Empire State's height cropping up all around it?

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by mrskyline

Do we really want to see buildings of Empire State's height cropping up all around it?

Yes. As much as I love the Empire State, it stands in the middle of a living city, not some preserved part of a museum. Anyone who wants the skyline preserved as it is should get a photo to memorialize it. Change is coming. Sometimes it's good, and sometimes it's bad. But what would really be bad is if the city were frozen to a state where change never happened. We're many years removed from 1931. It's a new century, and it's time the city started showing it, which in many ways it has.

[Rizzo]

I have to say I really love the design of the new tower. At the same time it's painful to see the hotel go. Regardless of what's inside, it's a beautiful building. Architectural ubiquity should also never be an excuse for demolition. But I see the merits of the new tower, but you almost kind of wish they could purchase and raze some empty hideous office building instead.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by mrskyline

I love this design. My only concern would be the effect it would have aesthetically on the Empire State Building. I wish it was farther away because I like the way the Empire State Building currently dominates that area. Do we really want to see buildings of Empire State's height cropping up all around it?

I'm more worried about those god awful residential buildings popping up around the Empire State Building. Some are great, like Tower 31 or 400 5th Avenue, I'll even take the Epic and it's cheesy fin, but then there's The Magellan or even worse, 325 Fifth Avenue. The building itself isn't half bad, it's just that obnoxious blue and those plain white walls, I mean it's standing like a block away from the ESB, you think they'd put in a little more effort.


Source: Wired New York
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=154011

Oh god the horror. I'm not worried about buildings like 15 Penn Plaza, I'm sure the final result will be fantastic, I'd like to see the ESB isolated forever, but it's already too late, like NYguy said, it's a living city.

Originally Posted by Hayward

I have to say I really love the design of the new tower. At the same time it's painful to see the hotel go. Regardless of what's inside, it's a beautiful building. Architectural ubiquity should also never be an excuse for demolition. But I see the merits of the new tower, but you almost kind of wish they could purchase and raze some empty hideous office building instead.

Agreed!

[NYC4Life]

"I look around New York City and all I see is new buildings going up. What I don't see is New York of old, the old history, the old buildings," said Jones, who leads the Save The Hotel Pennsylvania Foundation.

This guy failed to realize the city is evolving into the 21st century just as it did during the last century. While many new buildings are going up, many of the older structures are being preserved. While not every single old building can be saved, those that are eventually replaced will help to modernize the landscape, improve our city's aging infrastructure and allow for future growth in an ever expanding metropolis.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by NYC4Life

This guy failed to realize the city is evolving into the 21st century just as it did during the last century.

What's more is that his statement is ridiculous. Anyone who walks around Manhattan - and can see - will know Manhattan is nothing but row after row of old building. Is there a lot of construction going on? Yes. Is it enough to overtake the character of Manhattan? No. It's just foolish to say otherwise.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

i just sent a letter to our long time Friend Mrs.Burden asking her to give this project the green light. maybe some of you should do the same.

[Zapatan]

wait, amanda burden is in charge of giving this the green light? Oh jeez..

[JSsocal]

remember, this thing is a totally different beast. These people aren't opposed to height in very limited circumstances. Remember part of the reason people didn't support Tower Verre was because it was midblock. The original idea of the street grid, is to put big towers on the avenues, which this building does perfectly. To these people it could be just any new office building.

[Zapatan]

oh well i guess that's good, but her argument of "being the same height as ESB is bad' is obviously going to reoccur i feel, especially since this tower is so much larger than TV.

but oh well, hopefully this thing gets built at it's full size, it'll be a beast!

[Zapatan]

The design reminds me of the China WTC



http://www.meiguoxing.com/images/China_World_Trade_Center_Tower_3.jpg

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JSsocal

The original idea of the street grid, is to put big towers on the avenues.

And that was lost decades ago. It's the specifice zoning that decides how big skyscrapers are now. But it's the zoning that is frequently changed, for various reasons. For example, the far west side of Manhattan was rezoned for large office towers. The area around Penn Station has also been zoned for high rise office development, and tools are in place for size bonuses generated by transit improvements. This was done by city planning, much of it under Amanda Burden. In effect, this tower is as much a city development as it is Vornado's.