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View Poll Results: Which of the designs would you like to see become the new Lansdowne 'Front Lawn'?
Option A: "One Park, Four Landscapes" 12 11.88%
Option B: "Win Place Show" 23 22.77%
Option C: "A Force of Nature" 14 13.86%
Option D: "All Roads Lead to Aberdeen" 16 15.84%
Option E: "The Canal Park in Ottawa" 18 17.82%
None of the above. Please keep my ashphalt. 18 17.82%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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  #161  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 7:59 PM
spotlight spotlight is offline
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Originally Posted by jemartin View Post
The equivalent will be to keep the lower half of the North Stands, about 7,000 seats. Just enough for Varsity games.

The south stands would be out of the way since they would simply be taken down.

Then the design competition, if the City wanted to could simply extend through to Bank Street and in and around the arena, coliseum and horticulture.

Just add a natural grass music bowl and another playing field and done!
7000 seats for varsity is barely enough for varsity games (although the average attendance is 3500, there are specific game that reach close to 9000.

also, not having a larger stadium venue would prevent the city and the university from hosting the Vanier Cup game
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  #162  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 8:32 PM
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Originally Posted by spotlight View Post
7000 seats for varsity is barely enough for varsity games (although the average attendance is 3500, there are specific game that reach close to 9000.

also, not having a larger stadium venue would prevent the city and the university from hosting the Vanier Cup game
I think the proposal is for 2 stadiums. 7000 seats at Lansdowne, and 30,000 at Bayview.
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  #163  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 8:53 PM
jemartin jemartin is offline
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Originally Posted by spotlight View Post
7000 seats for varsity is barely enough for varsity games (although the average attendance is 3500, there are specific game that reach close to 9000.

also, not having a larger stadium venue would prevent the city and the university from hosting the Vanier Cup game
Ditto what phil235 said,.....plus you can always add temporary field seating on an as needed basis.
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  #164  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 8:54 PM
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Sorry its not that simple you have to have a arena and a stadium with seating for around 5,0000.
pretty much what is being proposed.
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  #165  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2010, 6:34 AM
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Are the condo buildings going to be the City's to sell to the highest bidding developer, or are they part of the OSEG plan (i.e. they'll be Minto condos)???
I wondered this too. The original commercial plan included a revenue share of a theoretical 8% return on equity. That 8% was based on standard commercial real estate returns. What do condos do to the expected return on equity? Presumably that revenue comes in all at once when the condos are sold, but who does it go to? Is it the same split based on equity in the commercial segment (the city's 20 million of equity in the land and OSEG's 117 million [which at one point included the value of the sports teams])? Does the introduction of condos change the value of the city's land portion?

The financial arrangement was complicated to start with. This isn't simplifying it. At the last council meeting on the topic many councilors didn't seem to understand the financials. I hope the Auditor General's report makes some sense of it for them.
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  #166  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2010, 4:16 PM
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So apparently the winning park design will be chosen today. Can anyone confirm this?
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  #167  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2010, 4:28 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix View Post
So apparently the winning park design will be chosen today. Can anyone confirm this?
CTV is tweeting that we will find out which tomorrow.
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  #168  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2010, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by c_speed3108 View Post
CTV is tweeting that we will find out which tomorrow.
Argh! First it was supposed to be June 4th, then it got pushed to June 7th, and now it's pushed to tomorrow. Make a decision already!
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Franky: Ajldub, name calling is what they do when good arguments can't be found - don't sink to their level. Claiming the thread is "boring" is also a way to try to discredit a thread that doesn't match their particular bias.
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  #169  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 3:53 AM
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It’s Design B. Jury selects less flashy urban park proposal
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Design+Jury+selects+less+flashy+urban+park+proposal/3124530/story.html

BY RANDALL DENLEY, THE OTTAWA CITIZEN JUNE 7, 2010 11:28 PM BE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT



The winning proposal for a new urban space at Lansdowne Park comes with an estimated cost of $68 million. However, a design-competition jury is expected to suggest that millions could be saved by eliminating the proposal’s canal bridge and artificial island.
Photograph by: Handout, Lansdowne design team


OTTAWA — The jury recommending the design for Lansdowne Park’s public space will announce this morning that its choice is a proposal from the Vancouver designers Phillips Farevaag Smallenberg, the Citizen has learned.

Referred to as Design B in the public presentations, the winning proposal is one of the simplest of the five plans the jury reviewed. Despite that, it is far from the cheapest at an estimated cost of $68 million. The jury is expected to recommend substantial changes to the winning plan that will reduce the cost by more than $20 million.

The changes will eliminate or delay two of the most striking features of the winning plan. Design B featured an elaborate bridge linking Ottawa East with Lansdowne. The modern, curving bridge was intended to act as a “passage and gathering place,” according to the team’s proposal. It would have extended up into a screen creating a backdrop of water images for the large lawn that is part of the plan. At $16 million, it was a pricey feature. The city might still construct a bridge linking Lansdowne to the east side of the canal, but it is likely to be something less grandiose.

One of the more intriguing aspects of the proposal was an artificial island anchored in the Rideau Canal. It would have allowed people to get to the water’s edge easily and to tie up boats. It was also to be the home to two pavilions connected to the area’s Algonquin heritage. The seven-member jury is recommending delaying or eliminating the island, which was budgeted at $8 million.

The cost will be further pared by lowering the $5 million allotted for stormwater management.

Most of the proponents included the stormwater costs for the entire site in their plans, although much of that cost will ultimately be attributed to the commercial part of the site.

The preferred design, which must be approved by city council, still entails some major features. It will have a large lawn for public events, similar to the lawn on Parliament Hill. There is a “water plaza” that will feature an upscale fountain called “the Beacon” and act as a skating rink in winter. The Vancouver proposal makes much less use of water than some of its competitors, but avoids a fight with Parks Canada over changing the Rideau Canal.

All the design teams struggled to find an appropriate modern use for the Aberdeen Pavilion. In this plan, it will continue to act as an exhibit hall, although if trade shows do move to a new building near the airport, it’s not entirely clear what business will be left for the Aberdeen.

The fate of the Horticulture Building is one of the controversies at Lansdowne. Heritage groups oppose moving it and the winning design team agrees that it should not be moved, describing such a move as “an embarrassment” because of the canal’s world heritage status. The jury will recommend that the building be moved anyway, arguing that the key goal is the creation of a farmers’ plaza linking the Horticulture and Aberdeen buildings. That also fits with the city’s private-sector partners’ desire to move the building to allow more commercial space.

The winning design incorporates the Glebe’s Sylvia Holden Park into its plan, but retains and enhances its neighbourhood uses. Also included in the plan are heirloom orchards, community gardens and substantial plantings of trees.

The jury of design experts, representatives of the city, Parks Canada and the National Capital Commission has chosen a proposal that has very little to dislike. It offers lots of greenery, open spaces and some features for a price that will be affordable, spread over a few years. All that should increase its chances of acceptance by the public and council.

It’s certainly not the flashiest design on offer. That would have been the one with the retractable front on the Aberdeen Pavilion and more water on the site. It would have been spectacular, but higher-risk because of the cost and Parks Canada’s reluctance to allow a canal inlet at Lansdowne.

The plan the jury will recommend is a solid one, but councillors shouldn’t be too quick to give up on the idea of diverting the canal onto the site. Work on the park wouldn’t start until 2013, so there is plenty of time to explore whether there is federal political support for restoring the historic inlet at Lansdowne, even if today’s bureaucrats aren’t on-side.

While the recommended plan falls short of the ideal, it will be an immense improvement over the Lansdowne of today.

Contact Randall Denley at 613-596-3756 or by e-mail, [email protected]

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
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  #170  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 4:15 AM
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I think they made the best choice. A lot of us probably chose option 'B' because it seems simple and feasible. This is the type of project with lots of green space that will make the Glebites happy(ish). Could it be that in the month of June will will see the Lansdowne park design competition winner chosen, federal funding for our LRT project, and the Lansdowne stadium and mixed use development passing council???? What a great month this could be....
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  #171  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 4:53 AM
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I liked B the best and I'm glad to see it's become the primary choice. It still 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 that the bridge and island would be gone. Those two were among my favourite aspects of this proposal.
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Franky: Ajldub, name calling is what they do when good arguments can't be found - don't sink to their level. Claiming the thread is "boring" is also a way to try to discredit a thread that doesn't match their particular bias.
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  #172  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 8:00 AM
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Too bad - I think they chose the most boring design (particularly with the island and bridge gone) A lawn? A bunch of trees? The Aberdeen Pavillion still be used for trade shows? Sounds like...the Lansdowne Park Conservancy proposal

Now throw in a bunch of generic commercial development and Ottawa will really have hit the ball out of the park!
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  #173  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 8:20 AM
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I'm happy. B wasn't my favourite, but they have removed two of the things I didn't like (the huge bridge thingy and the ugly screen). I wish they'd get rid of the community garden too, but that's not a big thing.

I hope they do eventually get around to a simpler footbridge, and the island in the canal. They just have to keep mentioning to Parks Canada that it is supposed to have a Parks Canada interpretive centre on it. Call it a bribe, if you will.
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  #174  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 11:01 AM
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I'm Happy with B mostly because of that cool bridge, but I would have preferred D.

C'est la vie.
C'est la guerre.
C'est l'Amour.

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  #175  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 12:00 PM
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darn! I wanted asphalt
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  #176  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 12:36 PM
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Design B $39M for Landscaping only



or

Lansdowne Park Conservancy, using existing annual site revenue surplus of $1m
allows for a gradual implementation of roughly 4 to 5 acres per year at
zero taxpayer cost for entire park, no private development, 100% public.


Last edited by jemartin; Jun 8, 2010 at 1:37 PM.
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  #177  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jemartin View Post
Design B $39M for Landscaping only



or

Lansdowne Park Conservancy, using existing annual site revenue surplus of $1m
zero taxpayer cost for entire park, no private development, 100% public.

See, a reasonable person would have seen that $39 million figure and wondered whether site regeneration and landscaping might be a little more expensive than he assumed.

You appear to have concluded that they're all idiots and the whole thing can be done for peanuts.

I think the professionals have a little more credibility on this than you do.
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  #178  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 1:22 PM
adam-machiavelli adam-machiavelli is offline
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So a proposal for a bridge and an island minus the bridge and island. I fail to see the logic here.
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  #179  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 1:24 PM
jemartin jemartin is offline
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Lets try common sense.

How much do you think it costs to lift asphalt and replace it with earth, grass and trees per acre?

Keeping in mind that an acre is roughly 44,000 sq ft.

or say a space of roughly 200 feet by 220 feet. Do you think a small crew of a couple of guys, a backhoe and a couple of dump trucks couldn't reasonably clear that off in a day?

Now bring in the new earth and compact it, throw down some grass and add some trees.

In the extreme all of that would take that small crew three days. Let's pay them $200,000.00 for their troubles.

There are roughly 20 to 30 acres to take of, so that's between $4M and $6M dollars if you were to do it by one acre at a time, less if you do it in larger chunks.

And $4M to $6M aint peanuts but a whole lot less than $39M and done at zero taxpayer cost using site revenue surplus.

So you break it down over 4 years at roughly 5 to 6 acres per year.

Under a Conservancy model that is the time it would take. But no taxpayer money. Total cost to the City of Ottawa is zero.

You of course are welcome to show me how the value is different, or that a cost to taxpayers of $39M justifies going with a Vancouver design firm
makes more sense than taking a zero taxpayer cost option for the same result.
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  #180  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2010, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli View Post
So a proposal for a bridge and an island minus the bridge and island. I fail to see the logic here.
Parks Canada has blocked that portion as well as the storm water drainage. So original cost of Design B has gone from $68M to $39M for essentially landscaping.
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