The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[GUB]

This would be a cool project/development for the old Paramount Theatre on King's Square...

http://www.icrsaskatoon.com/SalesLeasing/SLOffice/Photo/Capitol-Center-Angle-Street-View-Oct-9.jpg

It's a former 4-cinema theatre in Saskatoon converted to office space etc.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by GUB

This would be a cool project/development for the old Paramount Theatre on King's Square...

http://www.icrsaskatoon.com/SalesLeasing/SLOffice/Photo/Capitol-Center-Angle-Street-View-Oct-9.jpg

It's a former 4-cinema theatre in Saskatoon converted to office space etc.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but unless i'm mistaken there are empty offices uptown as we speak. Not sure if building more would be a wise idea.

They would be in a good location, at least.

[GUB]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Sorry to burst your bubble, but unless i'm mistaken there are empty offices uptown as we speak. Not sure if building more would be a wise idea.

They would be in a good location, at least.

And would not be torn down for a parking space...

[PersonPlaceorThing]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Sorry to burst your bubble, but unless i'm mistaken there are empty offices uptown as we speak. Not sure if building more would be a wise idea.

They would be in a good location, at least.

Not all vacancy fits all users. I know several folks that have renovated office space in recent years because what was available (vacant) wasn't good enough for what they wanted.

In other news, the IOL office adjacent the Paramount seems to have emptied. Tear down that, the strip club and the paramount and you've got a pretty awesome development site. You could build a clone of the Beatty across the square with retail or offices on the ground and apartments above.

If only I had money or the ability to bring ivnestors onto a project like that.

[manhattan08]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree, the idea of an IKEA in Halifax is not absolutely outside the realm of possibility.

- Halifax has a metro pop. of 400,000. This is still well short of a million but if IKEA were to try and test market a store for a medium sized city, Halifax would be a good choice.
- Halifax has a young, well educated, urban and urbane population which fits IKEA's demographics very well.
- Halifax has a history with IKEA. Their first store in North America was in Halifax. It did very well. The city was very upset when IKEA pulled out, citing that the market was "too small". The Halifax IKEA in fact was profitable. This history may count for something.

I'm a Moncton booster all the way, but I firmly believe that IKEA belongs in Halifax and not Moncton. I get just as upset as everyone else when the T&T every few months pulls a stunt like phoning up the President of IKEA Canada and asking when they're going to open their Moncton store........it's not going to happen!!

I forgot where I read it or watched it, but it was a while ago, but from what I remember the reason that Ikea pulled out of Halifax was because it was battling with the Nova Scotia government about opening on Sundays and that it grew to such a heated feud that Ikea closed the store down and vowed never to return to Nova Scotia again..

[Pugsley]

From an insider at IKEA, I remember being told that it would be a cold day in hell before they would ever open a store in Halifax. That store (which by the way was NOT profitable), was the only store in the company's global retail history to be shut down and the founder/owner took this personally as his only major public failure in the company's history. So, Halifax kinda blew it.

As far as this silly effort to get them to come here with a petition letter...I roll my eyes every time I see this. First off, they are JUST starting to get into the US market more heavily now and the return on say opening their first store in oh, I don't know, Phoenix, Tampa, or Denver, will probably be higher than Saint John, Moncton, or Halifax.

Next, if you look at Metro areas under-served in Canada, I would bet using a strong business background and a groudned view here that new stores in the booming markets of Regina, Saskatoon, or London, Windsor, KW-Cambridge, Kelowna, Oshawa or secondary shops in Calgary, Edmonton or Ottawa would come before anything on the east coast. Sorry to poop on the parade, but we are talking about an IKEA here, these are significant stores. If it took 20 years longer than the rest of Canada to get a Costco in Saint John and we still need to see if it will be profitable, then thinking of getting an Ikea is plain silly.

[MonctonRad]

Interesting.........I was living in Halifax when the IKEA there was closed. The reports at the time were that the store was "break even" or slightly profitable. Perhaps you are right though.

manhattan08 triggered a few of my remaining brain cells and yes, he is right, there was an issue about Sunday openings at the time. I think this might have been the deal-breaker.

The store was marginal. They wanted to open on Sundays to boost their profit margin. The government said no and they packed up and left town.

This no doubt would have left a bad feeling with the company. I wonder how long their corporate memory is?

I agree with Pugsley, there are so many unexploited attractive markets for them in North America, the chances of them setting up shop anywhere in the east in the short or medium term is nil.

In 20-30 years however, if they decided to come back, I still think it would be to Halifax. I'll be dead by then so it won't matter to me.

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

That store (which by the way was NOT profitable), was the only store in the company's global retail history to be shut down and the founder/owner took this personally as his only major public failure in the company's history. So, Halifax kinda blew it.

I agree that it's unlikely that we'll see an Ikea in the maritimes anytime soon. However, I would be surprised if the Ikea management had such personal negative feelings about the Halifax/maritimes market. Busyness is busyness, the store just wasn't profitable enough and their research must have told them that there wasn't enough growth potential at the time.

Also, Halifax is not alone having had this experience. There was an Ikea in the Lebourgneuf area of Quebec city some years back but it closed...I think it was in the current Costco building (unconfirmed; anyone know?).

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Next, if you look at Metro areas under-served in Canada, I would bet using a strong business background and a groudned view here that new stores in the booming markets of Regina, Saskatoon, or London, Windsor, KW-Cambridge, Kelowna, Oshawa or secondary shops in Calgary, Edmonton or Ottawa would come before anything on the east coast. Sorry to poop on the parade, but we are talking about an IKEA here, these are significant stores. If it took 20 years longer than the rest of Canada to get a Costco in Saint John and we still need to see if it will be profitable, then thinking of getting an Ikea is plain silly.

I'm not convinced that Saskatchewan has got a better shot than Halifax. Although I would guess that some of those other markets you mentioned might be a safer move for Ikea. I think our best shot at getting one in the maritimes is if the company comes up with a different, smaller version of their current gigantic outlets. Some kind of "mini Ikea".

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

From an insider at IKEA, I remember being told that it would be a cold day in hell before they would ever open a store in Halifax. That store (which by the way was NOT profitable), was the only store in the company's global retail history to be shut down and the founder/owner took this personally as his only major public failure in the company's history. So, Halifax kinda blew it.

As far as this silly effort to get them to come here with a petition letter...I roll my eyes every time I see this. First off, they are JUST starting to get into the US market more heavily now and the return on say opening their first store in oh, I don't know, Phoenix, Tampa, or Denver, will probably be higher than Saint John, Moncton, or Halifax.

Next, if you look at Metro areas under-served in Canada, I would bet using a strong business background and a groudned view here that new stores in the booming markets of Regina, Saskatoon, or London, Windsor, KW-Cambridge, Kelowna, Oshawa or secondary shops in Calgary, Edmonton or Ottawa would come before anything on the east coast. Sorry to poop on the parade, but we are talking about an IKEA here, these are significant stores. If it took 20 years longer than the rest of Canada to get a Costco in Saint John and we still need to see if it will be profitable, then thinking of getting an Ikea is plain silly.

lol, Windsor? Kelowna? Saskatoon? you've got to be kidding right. I would think that Halifax would be the obvious choice out of most of the cities you mentioned. the population is higher than many of these places, and the catchment area is far bigger than Regina or Saskatoon.

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

From an insider at IKEA, I remember being told that it would be a cold day in hell before they would ever open a store in Halifax. That store (which by the way was NOT profitable), was the only store in the company's global retail history to be shut down and the founder/owner took this personally as his only major public failure in the company's history. So, Halifax kinda blew it.

As far as this silly effort to get them to come here with a petition letter...I roll my eyes every time I see this. First off, they are JUST starting to get into the US market more heavily now and the return on say opening their first store in oh, I don't know, Phoenix, Tampa, or Denver, will probably be higher than Saint John, Moncton, or Halifax.

Next, if you look at Metro areas under-served in Canada, I would bet using a strong business background and a groudned view here that new stores in the booming markets of Regina, Saskatoon, or London, Windsor, KW-Cambridge, Kelowna, Oshawa or secondary shops in Calgary, Edmonton or Ottawa would come before anything on the east coast. Sorry to poop on the parade, but we are talking about an IKEA here, these are significant stores. If it took 20 years longer than the rest of Canada to get a Costco in Saint John and we still need to see if it will be profitable, then thinking of getting an Ikea is plain silly.

You had me until Windsor

[Pugsley]

I was stating that these cities are likely to be bigger draws than Saint John - if we assume Halifax is not as attractive a market given their history. So yes, Regina (Pop: 194,971) and Saskatoon (Pop: 233,923) are larger in comparison to Saint John and currently, are experiencing impressive growth and development.

As for Windsor, it is simply a larger market (pop: 323,342 and experienced a 5% increase from 2001-2006) versus Saint John's negative position) AND, part of the S. Ontario network so easier for them to expand to from the GTA where they have a distribution centre I believe.

To answer the question about the Quebec location closing, I believe it was a distribution centre which was relocated to St. Bruno closer to the Ottawa and Montreal markets.

As for the issue of "business is business", remember that Ikea is NOT a publically traded company - it is a private enterprise closely held and controlled by still acting CEO and Founder Ingvar Kamprad (age 84)...and if I was him, I would be crusty and jaded about a personal failure like this too. LOL

[Blitz]

^ Windsor already as an IKEA....it's located in Canton, Michigan.

[someone123]

There were a bunch of smaller IKEAs in several Canadian cities back in the 1980s. They closed them down when they switched to larger-scale stores in major centres.

It's really unlikely that IKEA would open someplace other than Halifax in the Maritimes because the other retail markets are so much smaller. IKEA also sells products designed for people living in small apartments, which you see a bit in Halifax and very little of elsewhere in the region.

[MonctonRad]

Well, seeing as how the Saint John thread has been hijacked for the last two pages, I guess it's time for an "IKEA in the Maritimes" thread.

[JHikka]

The Official IKEA, New Brunswick Thread, evidently.

Anyone have thoughts on adding a third crossing between the West side and the rest of Saint John? Presumably over the Narrows above Reversing Falls? I say this because the two we have now are inundated with construction and congestion.

I could make up a map of possibly adding more crossings...?

[mylesmalley]

Go for a tunnel. If you're going to start dreaming, might as well be in technicolor.

[kwajo]

I'd rather have a pedestrian ferry and encourage more residential growth in the lower West side.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

[B][I]

Anyone have thoughts on adding a third crossing between the West side and the rest of Saint John? Presumably over the Narrows above Reversing Falls? I say this because the two we have now are inundated with construction and congestion.

I could make up a map of possibly adding more crossings...?

I would be curious to see a map to see if there is really any space for an additional crossing. Although there has been a significant increase in traffic over the last 1-2 years I would think we are still a ways off needing a third crossing but clearly it would help with all of the congestion.

Especially with the rate that the West side is growing right now.

[nwalbert]

Speaking of the West side, the new Lawton's is complete and is HUGE and looks really good. Also, the people at Kent's are saying that there are plans to build a new Kent's store across from the new Lawton's on the land that Irving uses for many of his trucks today. That would really change the look of the Golden Mile and mature the area greatly.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

I think our best shot at getting one in the maritimes is if the company comes up with a different, smaller version of their current gigantic outlets. Some kind of "mini Ikea".

I don't understand why they don't do that. They could have a smaller model that concentrates on selling housewares. Have showrooms for their furniture, but less stock and allow people to order in anything from the catalogue.

Right now their shipping is cost prohibitive, but that hasn't stopped myself or other family members from making big orders. Rarely do we visit Toronto, Ottawa, or Montreal without stopping in at IKEA, and most of the time we have requests from friends to bring items back.