Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[renthefinn]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Not wanting to be a stickler for accuracy, but it appears the disaster was caused by a badly-maintained bridge collapsing under the weight of an over-crowded streetcar. If the bridge had been kept in good condition, it's likely the over-crowded streetcar would have crossed safely, and the worst thing that might have happened was some frayed nerves caused by the overcrowded streetcar.

I fail to see how that's being a stickler for accuracy, I don't feel my comment was inaccurate, or that yours is more accurate. Still think it's a worse accident involving a streetcar than the one Mr.X posted, and there are likely other examples out there. The incident in Victoria is an accident none the less, regardless of who's fault it was.

[officedweller]

A storage yard is supposed to be part of the Evergreen Line.
No requirement for additional SkyTrain operations centre or maintenance centre.

[lezard]

Originally Posted by renthefinn

I fail to see how that's being a stickler for accuracy, I don't feel my comment was inaccurate, or that yours is more accurate. Still think it's a worse accident involving a streetcar than the one Mr.X posted, and there are likely other examples out there. The incident in Victoria is an accident none the less, regardless of who's fault it was.

Accident involving a streetcar, yes. Accident caused by a streetcar, no. Had it involved overcrowded cars, trucks, streetcars, LRT or Skytrain, the bridge would likely have collapsed regardless of what was crossing at the time.

If your point was to show Streetcar is less safe than automated, grade separated RRT, than your example fails to make that point.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

There is a missing piece to the discussion of LRT vs RRT (SkyTrain) at the open-house meetings and that is the operations and maintanence centre (OMC). The SkyTrain network already has an OMC while any LRT/Streetcar option will require the construction of one. An OMC requires large amounts of land adjacent to the line and if LRT were run between Commercial Drive and UBC where would the OMC go? How much more would the per-kilometre cost of LRT increase if the the OMC were factored in?

In the absence of a large and readily available parcel of land along the Broadway corridor for an LRT OMC it would suggest that the RRT to Arbutus/Olympic Line LRT from Main Street Stn to UBC option will be the only viable option for LRT since it would allow the LRT component of the line to makes its way to the False Creek Flats and possibly take advantage of the City-owned land underneath the viaducts for an OMC and storage tracks. That is certainly at odds with the NEFC high level review and it could represent a major City subsidy, in the form of the opportunity cost of not realizing the highest and best use of that land.

Another option would be a below grade OMC within the footprint of the existing UBC bus loop, or possibly an at-grade OMC that would be enclosed within the envelope of a new large mixed-use building on the site of the existing bus loop. Either option would be excruciatingly expensive to build and severely trucate any LRT fleet expansion in the future and its compatability with surrounding uses would be problematic.

The bottom line is that I think the OMC issue will become a major thorn in the side of LRT advocates for the Broadway Corridor line.

Reading the CoV Downtown Streetcar info ( http://vancouver.ca/ENGSVCS/transport/streetcar/index.htm ) , they are proposing to create an OMC under the viaducts on the block between Quebec to Main and Prior to Union. This is currently a parking lot which I think is used by VPD
( Google Streetview: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s...f_qfn_DwBGkvHHwzyA&cbp=12,126.51,,0,-3.1 )

In the CoV Downtown Streetcar plans, this will be adequate for the 12 streetcars they plan to need - 6 for the for the initial Granville Island/ Olympic Village/ Science World/ Gastown/ Waterfront alignment, 3 more for the Stanley Park extension, and 3 more for the segment along Expo or Pacific Boulevard to Yaletown & up Drake to Burrard. Any other Streetcar/LRT expansion that Translink is proposing using Arbutus Corridor to get to Broadway and then West to UBC, and also heading East of Main Street Station to VCC will require more cars - and another location with storage for 20 or more cars.

Since nothing has been finalized, perhaps the Viaduct lot can be used as just a storage yard for cars (and it may be able to store more cars because the space needed for OMC functions won't be there), so then the OMC can require less space for storage as well as the OMC functions and be located somewhere on the False Creek industrial area.

What would it take to convince BNSF and/or CNR to sell their rail yards on either side of Industrial Avenue and open new yards further east in Vancouver (or expand existing yards in Vancouver or Burnaby) so the land between Main to Clarke and Terminal to Great Northern Way can be redeveloped as industrial parks?
And leave a piece of land for a new LRT/Tram/Streetcar OMC?

I find it surprising that the LRT options are ending at Main Street Station - completely ignoring the CoV Downtown Streetcar ideas, as if Translink has an attitude that the Downtown Streetcar is "NOT our idea - NOT gonna happen. Period. " This may be because the northern edge of the Broadway Corridor area they are studying only extends up to Main Street Station. I noticed they were reluctant to talk about other improvements like 41st Avenue B-Line or Streetcars along the full length of Arbutus Corridor, also likely because this is outside of the study boundaries.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

A storage yard is supposed to be part of the Evergreen Line.
No requirement for additional SkyTrain operations centre or maintenance centre.

When the Evergreen line / Millennium / UBC line is completed, having a storage yard at the eastern end in Coquitlam makes sense, since this East-West line could be operated independent of the Expo (Surrey - Waterfront) line. The Edmonds OMC can store only the cars they need for the Expo line service, and when the Evergreen / Millennium / UBC line cars need service they can ride the connector between Lougheed and Columbia to get to Edmonds (and back to their storage yard in Coquitlam), That could be a convoluted move, but at 4 am who would be around to notice?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Remember, people... it's likely the line will run under 10th. Cut n' Cover on 10th is far far far less disruptive than on Broadway itself.

So instead of inconveniencing thousands of residents and businesses residents (and bankrupting hundreds of them) along 70 blocks of Broadway during C&C construction, its better to inconvenience more residents and inconvenience / bankrupt fewer businesses by using C&C construction on 70 blocks along 10th Ave?

Or would it be better to use TBM construction that only disturbs the surface at the 9 blocks where a station has to be built, and impacts only those residents and businesses who are unlucky to be located on that block?

If TBM construction was used under 10th Ave, even with a block-long street unusable during station construction, the north-south traffic on either side of that block is still functioning, and Broadway itself (the portion east of Sasamat) is still fully usable during construction.

[WaxItYourself]

Here's a little something for you all to laugh at, comment on, and make fun of the author: http://www.straight.com/article-323606/vancouver/new-broadway-skytrain-would-be-true-farce

[punface]

Letter to The Georgia Straight: "New Broadway SkyTrain would be true farce" by Malcom Johnston of Delta: http://www.straight.com/article-323606/vancouver/new-broadway-skytrain-would-be-true-farce

I can't respond right now but will later this morning.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by WaxItYourself

Here's a little something for you all to laugh at, comment on, and make fun of the author: http://www.straight.com/article-323606/vancouver/new-broadway-skytrain-would-be-true-farce

Normally, when a joke is told too many times, it ceases to be funny. However, in this case, the guy is the joke and his ludicrous claims continue to be nauseatingly funny. He just won't give up. And his statements are too unreal to be real.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by punface

Letter to The Georgia Straight: "New Broadway SkyTrain would be true farce" by Malcom Johnston of Delta: http://www.straight.com/article-323606/vancouver/new-broadway-skytrain-would-be-true-farce

I can't respond right now but will later this morning.

Perhaps someone can dig up his "doom and gloom" letters from a few years ago about how RAV (aka Canada Line) will be the end of civilization, so we can see how the completed Canada Line compares to his gloomy predictions

[GeeCee]

Perhaps Malcolm Johnston is interested in a feline monorail system over SkyTrain..

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Perhaps someone can dig up his "doom and gloom" letters from a few years ago about how RAV (aka Canada Line) will be the end of civilization, so we can see how the completed Canada Line compares to his gloomy predictions

The thing is...he actually thinks his gloomy predictions about the Canada Line have come true.

[CLC]

delete duplicate

[CLC]

Originally Posted by mr.x

The thing is...he actually thinks his gloomy predictions about the Canada Line have come true.

Some week ago, in his blog comment section, he "made up" a story of his wife's miserable ride to work using Canada Line+bus transfer to prove how bad it is .

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by CLC

Some week ago, I remember reading his bog comment section , he "made up" a story of his wife's miserable trip to work using Canada Line to prove how bad it is!

Hmmm...was it something like this: "I was riding the Canada Line train and there were only 8 other people on it....also this was at midnight."

[squeezied]

Originally Posted by WaxItYourself

Here's a little something for you all to laugh at, comment on, and make fun of the author: http://www.straight.com/article-323606/vancouver/new-broadway-skytrain-would-be-true-farce

i think someone already did have some fun.

Zweisystem
Thu, 2010-05-13 11:05Rating: -5
13 votes Shut up! you are wrong! SHAME ON YOU!

SkyTrain is SLOW. There's a reason why the 9 bus has more ridership than the 99 because it gets to where they need to go FASTER. The 99 is proof the skytrain won't have the sufficient ridership to justify it.

Did you know LRT can travel up to 110 km/hr? Now imagine LRT on Broadway travelling at 110 km/hr. SkyTrain doesn't have a chance!

And it's a lie Skytrain doesn't attract ridership. Just look how empty they are. They Olympic Line Streetcar had much more ridership than the Skytrain. This is proof LRT will attract more people.

Don't listen to other blogs that support skytrain. They don't know nothing and are biased hogs. For a complete and logical and unbiased blog, visit RFAIL FOR THE VALLEY.

[punface]

While that comment was funny (I laughed out loud and almost spat coffee everywhere) I'm not sure it helps our case to do that. We have the facts on our side, and Zwei usually self-destructs on his own - no need to beat him to it.

[WarrenC12]

The funny part to me is people seemed to think that was the real zwei. I'm assuming it was a joke, but you never know.

[jsbertram]

I see Zwei needs his meds adjusted again ...

http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/20...follies-part-4-the-versatile-light-rail/

I have to remember to be careful what I'm sipping while reading his posts - is anything worse than back-snorting hot cocoa out my nose & down my lungs while stifling a laugh & trying to breath again? The missus was had already dialed the first two digits of 9-1-1 before I was able to say I was OK.


(warning: this picture may cause ROTFLAMAO and spillage)


Zwei's solution for keeping bikes out of trains.

[jsbertram]

Has anyone else noticed that any photos of tram /lrt /streetcar systems seem to have no nearby cars and trucks? I have yet to see a photo or a video of a street as wide and clogged with traffic like Broadway at rush hour that also has a streetcar running on it.