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  #201  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2010, 8:49 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
I'm quite excited to see what they come up with for the other parking lot they keep talking about - I think this will fill in quite nicely.

I wonder if an observation deck type of thing could be incorporated into the tallest part of the building - as a replacement to the 'space needle' proposal that had been removed?

I just want to throw in my 2 cents about the question that was asked earlier about Councillor Sloane. I think any politician in a downtown core (where there is the combination of development pressure and heritage preservation) has got a tough road to deal with. One thing I will give her cudos for is trying to represent her constituants, which I think she's done well over the years. But what really counts (in my mind) when it comes down to it, is the vote at the public hearing. You can sign up for various groups on facebook that are pro or con to development - but what really counts is the vote.

From my perspective, if I were in any of these councillors shoes I'd probably take the middle ground, signing up for both groups to be fair. But I'd make my decision based on an informed discussion about the issue; researching the issue, talking to staff and both sides of the debate. That's just me - god, sounds like I have an election platform lol.
yes you seem a little to pro sloane....which is odd
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  #202  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2010, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrington south View Post
no the "not Dubia" comment was in referance to the buildings being white in color


as if Dubia invented white buildings
huh! ....whoever voted for this women last time please don't vote for her again..lol..

Last edited by Haliguy; Apr 22, 2010 at 1:31 AM.
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  #203  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2010, 9:29 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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yes you seem a little to pro sloane....which is odd
I'm pro no one - just know the political aspects of planning. =) I've done this enough that I've seen members of councils start off pro and switch sides and vice versa. So I give them all the benefit of the doubt on things and really the vote is what counts.

It's one job I don't think I could handle.
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  #204  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2010, 10:08 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
I'm pro no one - just know the political aspects of planning. =) I've done this enough that I've seen members of councils start off pro and switch sides and vice versa. So I give them all the benefit of the doubt on things and really the vote is what counts.

It's one job I don't think I could handle.
I have been reading the HRM meeting minutes for various new proposals and overall I can see that most councillors do want growth and modern buildings (some even speak out against imitating heritage buildings). So I can see a gradual change in opinions. Even some of the staunch pro-heritage councillors show a weakness in favour of modern buildings at times. At times I forget that these are just buildings that we are talking about. Both the new and old buildings will likely all be gone in another 200 years.

Like you said previously in another post, halifaxboyns, if there is development pressure on Halifax to change then it will have no choice but to change (I am paraphrasing). It has been slow to change in the past because it didn't have much developmental pressure.
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  #205  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2010, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I have been reading the HRM meeting minutes for various new proposals and overall I can see that most councillors do want growth and modern buildings (some even speak out against imitating heritage buildings). So I can see a gradual change in opinions. Even some of the staunch pro-heritage councillors show a weakness in favour of modern buildings at times. At times I forget that these are just buildings that we are talking about. Both the new and old buildings will likely all be gone in another 200 years.

Like you said previously in another post, halifaxboyns, if there is development pressure on Halifax to change then it will have no choice but to change (I am paraphrasing). It has been slow to change in the past because it didn't have much developmental pressure.
It's a tough job - I couldn't imagine doing it because you are going to have people on either side of the issue and then undecided people. So you will never make people happy, especially when you have heritage groups on one side and pro development on the other.

I think you paraphrased my thoughts rather well - any city has to eventually reach of point of it's next major "milestone". For Halifax, that will probably be a population of 500,000, although that will probably be sometime down the road. But regardless, if the economic picture is right for Halifax and the investment comes; pressure will come with it. Unlike Calgary (where there are literally hundreds of sites that could be easily redeveloped with taller towers), Halifax doesn't have that. Eventually all the easy sites in Halifax will be redeveloped or used, so then you get into taking down existing buildings (say for example the Raddison site by the Twisted Sisters sites).

Having lived and worked in cities that saw a boom, the pressure is always intense and it's not just about huge towers either. Even low density residential development will see pressure. I figure Fairview and Clayton park (and already the south end) will be the next major pressure points for big mc-houses, since the lots are quite big. My old childhood home in Fairview is still there, but last visit there were 5 or 6 new huge houses - way out of wack with surrounding bungalows.

So the pressure isn't just about downtown either!
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  #206  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 2:25 PM
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From the Herald.

Developer’s deal of the century?

Property specialist: 99-year lease ‘ absurdly low rent’ for Salter Street block


By BRUCE ERSKINE

Business Reporter

Centennial Group Ltd. is getting a great deal on its lease for the Salter Street block property on Halifax’s waterfront, says the vice-president of investment sales with DTZ Barnicke in Hali f ax.

“It’s an absurdly low rent for that property," Tim Margolian said Wednesday in an inter view. “It could be significantly more — probably double.

“They’ve undervalued the land by a long shot."

Centennial, which is led by prominent local developer Ralph Medjuck, will pay about $39 million in rent over the course of its 99-year lease with Waterfront Development Corp. Ltd. for the Salter Street water front block. Lease documents filed with Service Nova Scotia’s land reg­istration office in Dartmouth detail the rent ag reement for the 1.4-hectare property. It will be home to a $75 million devel opment that will include a 142-unit apartment building, a 98-unit hotel, 75,000 square feet of retail space and a half-hec tare public park.

Centennial will pay $50,000 a year in rent during the con struction phase. That rate will apply for five years or less, de pending on how quickly the complex is occupied.

Rent for the next 15 years is fixed at $275,000 a year.

Rents will then increase in 10-year increments: $320,500 a year for years 21 to 30; $332,750 a year for years 31 to 40; $366,025 a year for years 41 to 50; $402,628 a year for years 51 to 60; $442,890 a year for years 61 to 70; $487,179 a year for years 71 to 80; $535,897 a year for years 81 to 90; and $589,497 a year for years 91 to 99. Colin MacLean, Waterfront Development’s president and chief executive officer, said the provincial Crown corporation negotiated incremental rent in creases because of income un­certainties tied to the lengthy lease term.

“It’s hard to predict property incomes at that time. That’s why we chose to do 10-year in crements."

The lease also includes provi sions for the corporation to re ceive 3.5 per cent of gross reve nues above $1 million in any given lease year from a restau rant that Centennial plans to build.

MacLean said that arrange ment will allow the corporation to benefit from what it thinks will be a successful eatery with out risking public money.

Frank Medjuck, Centennial’s legal counsel, said the lease agreement “absolutely" re flects fair market value for the waterfront property.

“It was independent people negotiating back and forth."

He said Waterfront Develop ment will realize an “upside" from projected restaurant reve nues.

The lease also includes a pro vision that could terminate the agreement if construction doesn’t begin by next June.

But Medjuck said Centennial has “no concerns" on that front.

The company has a long de velopment track record.

MacLean said he was confi dent that footings for the pro ject will be in place by next June, which would fulfil the agreement’s construction mile stone requirement. “They’ve given us no indica tions otherwise," he said, not ing that the Medjucks have built “a lot" of Halifax. “I feel positive about it."

Michael Turner, president of Halifax real estate consultants

Turner Drake & Partners Ltd.,

wasn’t privy to details of the long-term lease, but he didn’t think much of the concept.

“I think the WDCL and the province’s policy of leasing benefits nobody," Turner said.

Long-term leases allow poli ticians to pretend that promi nent public properties such as the waterfront haven’t been sold to the private sector, he said. But Turner said they give leaseholders little incentive to redevelop those properties mid ter m.

“They don’t have enough ten ure left. It wouldn’t make sense."

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  #207  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 7:54 PM
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Meh... the part I love is that they have to have the footings done by next June. Awesome! Best news for the downtown that I have heard in a while.
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  #208  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 8:06 PM
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Meh... the part I love is that they have to have the footings done by next June. Awesome! Best news for the downtown that I have heard in a while.
It looks like it took the Trillium 11 months to go from bare land to the first pour. This project won't have to dig as far, will have looser material to dig through, but might have to deal with water more. Would someone with construction knowledge think that this is an aggressive deadline?
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  #209  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 8:20 PM
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The property is worth more but one major thing they don't mention is that much of it will be made up of public space, and there will be elements such as the indoor winter garden that will be constructed largely for public benefit. It's not a purely private condo development.
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  #210  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2010, 11:02 PM
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Here's another fascinating article from the 4th Estate, circa 1976:

http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/virtual/newspapers/archives.asp?ID=720&Page=200920000

These same lands on which we are now seeing the Salter development apparently moving forward, were originally supposed to be the site of a development back in the mid-70s. Govt inaction and indecision on that project led to the creation of the WDC. As the article says, "...the entire waterfront development is expected to be completed in 10 or 11 years."

Yeah, suuuure. Now one sees how govt agencies are self-perpetuating.
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  #211  
Old Posted May 8, 2010, 3:25 PM
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I heard today that the construction fence for this project will go up in June.
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  #212  
Old Posted May 8, 2010, 7:25 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I heard today that the construction fence for this project will go up in June.
OMG!
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  #213  
Old Posted May 8, 2010, 10:10 PM
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This is just amazing! Seeing all this construction around town is making my head sign. Is it just me? or does anyone esle think this city is growing at a fast pace. The trill, kings wharf, Hollis, NSP waterfront and the bayers road project. These will make our city look way more different when done.
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  #214  
Old Posted May 8, 2010, 10:51 PM
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This is just amazing! Seeing all this construction around town is making my head sign. Is it just me? or does anyone esle think this city is growing at a fast pace. The trill, kings wharf, Hollis, NSP waterfront and the bayers road project. These will make our city look way more different when done.
To be honest, it has alot to do with the fact that its now construction season and many of these developments were obstructed or are being built in phases.

Looking at the u/c list it doesn't seem that crazy and I think that Halifax came out of the recession well positioned. There are alot of institutional developments underway and smaller projects. I bet alot of people have moved back from Calgary too... I wonder what the exact number of Nova Scotians that have "gone down the road is". Pretty much all of my friends are now in Montreal/Toronto/Calgary/Vancouver. I'm living out west as well.

Now, if IP and the Nova Centre were to start we'd have a legitimate boom.
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  #215  
Old Posted May 9, 2010, 2:31 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Based on what is being reported in the newspapers recently (quoting the United Gulf president, Navid Saberi), it sounds like the United Gulf TexPark redevelopment could be starting in the next 18 months. It is the next one on their list based on what I have read (It is ahead of the Birch Cove Tower). I am also starting to feel that if the Nova Centre convention centre can be built at an economical price (around $100 million dollars) then there is a good chance that it will go ahead.

I think if the momentum can continue in the Halifax area so that the Halifax county population approaches 500,000 then increasingly Nova Scotians will decided to stay in the Halifax area. Many people are attracted to medium - large size cities.

Last edited by fenwick16; May 9, 2010 at 2:19 PM. Reason: one extra zero has been removed
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  #216  
Old Posted May 9, 2010, 2:34 AM
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I think if the momentum can continue in the Halifax area so that the Halifax county population approaches 500,0000 then increasingly Nova Scotians will decided to stay in the Halifax area. Many people are attracted to medium - large size cities.
If only Fenwick, if only... LOL
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  #217  
Old Posted May 9, 2010, 3:18 AM
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500,000 isn't that far off. At the current population growth of 1.3% annually it would take about 17 - 18 years. If the population growth rate goes up a bit then it could be even sooner. (Halifax is currently experiencing a baby boom - it just has to keep these people in the Halifax area).

Even places like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver were at the Halifax population at one time (in the case of Toronto and Montreal, it would have been about 100 years ago, Vancouver might have been about 60 - 70 years ago). Calgary was at Halifax's population just 40 years ago.

Modern amenities and exciting developments tend to attract people. I can see that starting to happen in the Halifax area. It is quite exciting to see. I hope that it will continue. Halifax needs a few more things - an outdoor stadium (15,000 - 20,000 capacity to start) and eventual CFL team would get people both inside and outside of Halifax excited and attract attention (Halifax has to show the rest of Canada that it is a progressive city, otherwise people will continue to move away in droves).
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  #218  
Old Posted May 9, 2010, 3:38 AM
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It's very true that larger cities simply have more pull. I think Halifax is starting to achieve a little bit of "critical mass" - it's not a large metropolis, but it's on its way to being a real city rather than a small town. It has enough population and money now to support a lot of business and amenities that were not possible 50 years ago.

Changing technology is also a huge advantage and it will only continue to tip in Halifax's favour when you compare it to places like Montreal and Toronto. Vancouver succeeds more because it is a nice place to live than because it is a critical place to locate industry - location is becoming less and less important for businesses.
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  #219  
Old Posted May 9, 2010, 6:03 AM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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It's very true that larger cities simply have more pull. I think Halifax is starting to achieve a little bit of "critical mass" - it's not a large metropolis, but it's on its way to being a real city rather than a small town. It has enough population and money now to support a lot of business and amenities that were not possible 50 years ago.

Changing technology is also a huge advantage and it will only continue to tip in Halifax's favour when you compare it to places like Montreal and Toronto. Vancouver succeeds more because it is a nice place to live than because it is a critical place to locate industry - location is becoming less and less important for businesses.
? Vancouver is the gateway to the emerging south pacific markets? There are tons of reasons as to why vancouver is a critical place to locate industry and it will only become more important as China and India grow.

I agree with the critical mass part... and I think that alot of it will have to do with spurring growth our private sector which ultimately has wealth spillover effects in terms of local suppliers, B2B firms. However, we have been pretty much a government town throughout our history and need to start attracting corporate jobs that aren't just entry level support.

For example: Its great to have RIM, Lockheed, and the banks in terms of the support jobs, but we need some more companies to headquarter in halifax. Hell, even the big names like Sobeys, McCains, etc don't have HQs here. I think entrepreneurship could drive this so long as startups could become big enough and use their capacity to really grow. I think Eastlink has been impressive.

A big issue I have found with the private sector job market is that the jobs are 1) mostly low-wage support (i.e. "contact centres") jobs when compared to Toronto and the other large cities; or 2) there are a few senior positions that I'm "not qualified" for. Nepotism still runs rampant in Halifax and there is indeed an elite that get their kids into positions here or pay for them to get a crazy education and live in Toronto before coming back and getting a senior job. I've seen it time and time again... but wealth tends to spawn wealth so long as the next generation isn't a total screwup or doesn't squander the advantages they are given.

Ultimately, we need more people that are in the middle of the organizational heirarchy. If we all know who all of the leaders of the business community are by name and hear about them in the paper all the time, then clearly it isn't big enough yet. There are probably a hundreds of Fred Macgillivray types in Toronto and Ottawa.

I'm suprised more companies headquartered in Toronto haven't put more money into having management/admin in Halifax... everything is more cost effective here and we have an overabundance of educated people that end up moving elsewhere. I wonder what the difference in salary is for senior managers.

Calgary has really lucked out because the nature of the oil and gas industry means that they have many HQs that won't/can't move elsewhere. Toronto stole most of our banking industry (CIBC, Scotiabank) headquarters years ago.
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  #220  
Old Posted May 9, 2010, 8:10 AM
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Vancouver has the port but I think most of its success comes from the fact that it is an attractive place to live with a nice climate, lots of outdoor activities, etc. It's a city with a somewhat mediocre economy (compared to Toronto historically, Calgary, and tons of US cities) and extremely expensive real estate but people are willing to pay a huge premium to live here. In a lot of ways it feels like Halifax except for the fact that it has a somewhat nicer natural setting and is significantly larger. It also has a much better attitude - there is a sense that Vancouver should be a major city (which it isn't quite yet) and that it's therefore important to seriously build up infrastructure.

Vancouver is about 5 times the size of Halifax but proportionally takes on much larger projects. Vancouver successfully held the Olympics and Halifax dropped out of the Commonwealth Games. The Canada Line cost $1.76 billion dollars - one fifth of this is $352 million and, well, when's the last time Metro Transit looked at spending that much money? They get excited over a BRT route that cost $10M to implement.

Similarly development handled by the municipality in Vancouver goes very quickly. Waterfront development here started in the 80s and there are several miles of highrise condos and many other things. In Halifax, we got one waterfront development (actual building) from about 1995-2010.
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