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  #101  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2010, 7:01 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by POLYCORP-Pete Polley View Post
HRM Parking requirements for Jazz (Halifax Peninsula R-3 Zone) -

1 parking space 9 feet x 20 feet - individually accessible.

Right from the 1960's...

Obviously for a project like this :

a) Do not need 1 space per unit

b) Spaces do not need to be anywhere near this big. HRM has ignored the fact that cars have gotten smaller over the past 40 years... i.e. smaller Japanese cars that started to come to North America in the early 1970's...

HRM Staff indicate that they do not have the authority to modify size or number of parking spaces with a variance under the Land Use Bylaw. If there are any planners out there that would can find a way for us to have the right to demand a variance on this, would love to hear from you...

We can get a credit for 2 parking spaces for providing bike parking...so we would need 60 parking spaces for 62 units...

Peter Polley
POLYCORP
I think if I did my metric conversion correctly; Calgary uses a parking stall size requirement quite similar as do many places in Alberta. I'd guess that it's a pretty universal size concept - except out here, it is usually too small (since the pick up truck and SUV reign supreme).

As to the variance powers, here is an excerpt from the HRM charter:
"259 (1) A development officer may grant a variance in one or more of the following terms in a development agreement, if provided for by the development agreement, or in land-use by-law requirements:

(a) percentage of land that may be built upon;

(b) size or other requirements relating to yards;

(c) lot frontage or lot area, or both, if


(i) the lot existed on the effective date of the by-law, or

(ii) a variance was granted for the lot at the time of subdivision approval.

(2) Where a municipal planning strategy and land-use by-law so provide, a development officer may grant a variance in one or more of the following terms in a development agreement, if provided for by the development agreement, or in land-use by-law requirements:

(a) number of parking spaces and loading spaces required;

(b) ground area and height of a structure;

(c) floor area occupied by a home-based business;

(d) external appearances of structures;

(e) height and area of a sign."

So 259 (2) (a) limits the power of the DO to vary only the number of parking and loading spaces, not the size. No luck on parking stall sizes.

In Alberta, the MGA doesn't really set limitations on the variance powers of the Development Authority in terms of permits. But each city/town does things differently. For example: Calgary's LUB has parts of use definitions which cannot be varied, but other rules can be (and that includes rules which may not setout a numeric value to be achieved, like a setback). But other communities like the RMWB actually setout in their LUB limits to variance powers on things like setbacks, which in their case I believe is 50%, but they have no power to vary parking stall requirements (number or size).

It's been my experience when appealing a variance refusal in Alberta, that where a Development Authority doesn't necessarily have the power to grant the variance, the appeal body may have that power. So perhaps you may want to get a legal interpretation from that perspective? If the DO can't vary the size of the parking stall; could the community council that you appeal the variance too? Meaning - you'd be intentionally applying for a variance you know would be refused, on the hopes that the appealing body could overturn that decision. Risky though.
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  #102  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 1:40 AM
POLYCORP-Pete Polley POLYCORP-Pete Polley is offline
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Halifaxboyzns -

Thanks very much. I will definitely have this checked out... as I indicated, HRM Staff have very clearly indicated to us several times that they do not have the authority under the variance provisions to change the number of parking spaces...

Some areas of HRM require parking spaces that are 8 feet x 16 feet...which is more realistic for today's smaller cars. The decrease from 9 feet to 8 feet may not sound like much, but when you need 1 space per unit, it makes a big difference. For us at Jazz, the volume of building above is relatively fixed by the View planes overhead and angle and side-yard setbacks... so if we had more (smaller) parking spaces, we could have a greater number of smaller, more affordable units.

Peter Polley
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  #103  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 2:36 AM
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I'm fine with the parking entrance being on Barrington...it's not a highway and shouldn't be treated like one. I'm sure once the interchange is redeveloped traffic will slow down quite a bit anyway.

the parking requirement does seem very outdated, how is Fenwick skirting it?

Last edited by alps; Apr 22, 2010 at 2:52 AM.
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  #104  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 3:22 AM
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Originally Posted by POLYCORP-Pete Polley View Post
Halifaxboyzns -

Thanks very much. I will definitely have this checked out... as I indicated, HRM Staff have very clearly indicated to us several times that they do not have the authority under the variance provisions to change the number of parking spaces...

Some areas of HRM require parking spaces that are 8 feet x 16 feet...which is more realistic for today's smaller cars. The decrease from 9 feet to 8 feet may not sound like much, but when you need 1 space per unit, it makes a big difference. For us at Jazz, the volume of building above is relatively fixed by the View planes overhead and angle and side-yard setbacks... so if we had more (smaller) parking spaces, we could have a greater number of smaller, more affordable units.

Peter Polley
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Do you have any renderings for Jazz?
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  #105  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 4:13 AM
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There have been some developments in the HRM where the parking requirement was not applied. For example, I don't think there's parking included with the low income housing development at North and Agricola, and I'm guessing there are other developments in the North End that don't have the required number of spaces either.

I seem to recall that there was some kind of vote for these developments, either in full regional council or in a community council.
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  #106  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 5:29 PM
POLYCORP-Pete Polley POLYCORP-Pete Polley is offline
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There have been some developments in the HRM where the parking requirement was not applied. For example, I don't think there's parking included with the low income housing development at North and Agricola, and I'm guessing there are other developments in the North End that don't have the required number of spaces either.

I seem to recall that there was some kind of vote for these developments, either in full regional council or in a community council.
The parking requirement varies by zone and area. Part of Gottingen Street has a unique zone that does not have a parking requirement. I believe that Fenwick Street is a development agreement application, which provides flexibility for the developer to propose parking alternatives. For us, with Jazz in the R-3 zone "as of right" development, we need one 9'x20' parking space per unit (except for the two waived for providing bike parking).... hope this helps...

Peter Polley
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  #107  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 7:21 PM
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There have been some developments in the HRM where the parking requirement was not applied. For example, I don't think there's parking included with the low income housing development at North and Agricola, and I'm guessing there are other developments in the North End that don't have the required number of spaces either.
North and Agricola has a parking garage door on North Street.
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  #108  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2010, 7:52 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by POLYCORP-Pete Polley View Post
The parking requirement varies by zone and area. Part of Gottingen Street has a unique zone that does not have a parking requirement. I believe that Fenwick Street is a development agreement application, which provides flexibility for the developer to propose parking alternatives. For us, with Jazz in the R-3 zone "as of right" development, we need one 9'x20' parking space per unit (except for the two waived for providing bike parking).... hope this helps...

Peter Polley
POLYCORP
One of the secondary planning areas along gottingen street (I believe it's the block where that new Condo building that's almost finished went up) gives some of the most flexible zoning rules to encourage redevelopment. The townhouses on Cornwallis was the start, then the condo tower and new the new apartment building next to the boxing arena.

My only caution about my previous comment about applying for a variance that can't be granted is whether the peninsula council would have the power to grant it. In the MGA, the appeal boards in Alberta have pretty sweeping powers, but I seem to recall a comment in the HRM charter that the community council (acting as the appeal body) has the same powers as the Development Officer. If that's the case, then I would read that to mean the same limitations too.

Have you considered doing a DA instead of going as of right? That might also be an option; unless time is a consideration.
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  #109  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2010, 2:48 AM
POLYCORP-Pete Polley POLYCORP-Pete Polley is offline
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
One of the secondary planning areas along gottingen street (I believe it's the block where that new Condo building that's almost finished went up) gives some of the most flexible zoning rules to encourage redevelopment. The townhouses on Cornwallis was the start, then the condo tower and new the new apartment building next to the boxing arena.

My only caution about my previous comment about applying for a variance that can't be granted is whether the peninsula council would have the power to grant it. In the MGA, the appeal boards in Alberta have pretty sweeping powers, but I seem to recall a comment in the HRM charter that the community council (acting as the appeal body) has the same powers as the Development Officer. If that's the case, then I would read that to mean the same limitations too.

Have you considered doing a DA instead of going as of right? That might also be an option; unless time is a consideration.
Time is always a consideration, but if I had to make a choice between a year long development agreement application process and a two year long nasty court battle against HRM, I would obviously chose the DA application.

I asked that question...to try to find a solution to this MESS. HRM Staff have indicated that as property owners that we are "unable to apply" for a development agreement for our own land...they say that we would need the full, active support of the adjoining property owner... who is a multinational, multi-billion dollar operation which we have absolutely no control or influence over.

If you were me, what would your response be to an answer like that ? I'm interested in knowing...

Peter Polley
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  #110  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2010, 3:26 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by POLYCORP-Pete Polley View Post
Time is always a consideration, but if I had to make a choice between a year long development agreement application process and a two year long nasty court battle against HRM, I would obviously chose the DA application.

I asked that question...to try to find a solution to this MESS. HRM Staff have indicated that as property owners that we are "unable to apply" for a development agreement for our own land...they say that we would need the full, active support of the adjoining property owner... who is a multinational, multi-billion dollar operation which we have absolutely no control or influence over.

If you were me, what would your response be to an answer like that ? I'm interested in knowing...

Peter Polley
POLYCORP
Can you take legal action to get your money back from the company that sold the land, if the land was intended to be used as green space? I have some concerns, based on what you are stating, that even if you win the court case that the HRM council might not enter into a development agreement which would mean more legal battles.

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but as the saying goes, you can't fight city hall. The city has all the power when it comes to granting permits. In many ways these contracts between municipality and developers could be considered to be undue influence - the city seems to have almost all of the power. I certainly don't envy developers who have to deal with the HRM council.
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  #111  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2010, 3:57 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Originally Posted by POLYCORP-Pete Polley View Post
Time is always a consideration, but if I had to make a choice between a year long development agreement application process and a two year long nasty court battle against HRM, I would obviously chose the DA application.

I asked that question...to try to find a solution to this MESS. HRM Staff have indicated that as property owners that we are "unable to apply" for a development agreement for our own land...they say that we would need the full, active support of the adjoining property owner... who is a multinational, multi-billion dollar operation which we have absolutely no control or influence over.

If you were me, what would your response be to an answer like that ? I'm interested in knowing...

Peter Polley
POLYCORP
I guess it would all depend on if there was policy within the MPS that would allow a development agreement - if there isn't; then that creates a problem.

But surely you could apply for an MPS amendment to create the policy that would thus allow a Development Agreement - that happens all the time in planning exercises out here in Alberta? I don't know how many times I had applications that amended policy and then rezoned (although we call it redesignation) the parcel - since policy wasn't there.
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  #112  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2010, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
I guess it would all depend on if there was policy within the MPS that would allow a development agreement - if there isn't; then that creates a problem.

But surely you could apply for an MPS amendment to create the policy that would thus allow a Development Agreement - that happens all the time in planning exercises out here in Alberta? I don't know how many times I had applications that amended policy and then rezoned (although we call it redesignation) the parcel - since policy wasn't there.
This happens here as well. At least on the Dartmouth side it does. I do not know if there is a difference. But Kings Wharf went through that process and Seagate Residence (the project for the bottom of Pine street) is going through that process right now.
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  #113  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2010, 2:46 AM
POLYCORP-Pete Polley POLYCORP-Pete Polley is offline
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This happens here as well. At least on the Dartmouth side it does. I do not know if there is a difference. But Kings Wharf went through that process and Seagate Residence (the project for the bottom of Pine street) is going through that process right now.
Let's not forget that the land is zoned for R-3 "as-of-right" development... there should be no need to apply for a Development Agreement or MPS Amendment...even if that route was possible...

The fact that it's zoned R-3 and HRM refuses to respect that because they say they have an old agreement in their archives (which doesn't appear to have ever been signed) is THE issue ... we can't see any reference to "green space" in the UNSIGNED agreement that they gave us as part of the UARB evidence.. We went to them to see if we could solve the alleged problem with a Development Agreement application...but they say that's not possible (that's the short version...)... so a Development Agreement application is not feasible/possible...

Peter Polley
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  #114  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2010, 2:53 AM
POLYCORP-Pete Polley POLYCORP-Pete Polley is offline
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Can you take legal action to get your money back from the company that sold the land, if the land was intended to be used as green space? I have some concerns, based on what you are stating, that even if you win the court case that the HRM council might not enter into a development agreement which would mean more legal battles.

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but as the saying goes, you can't fight city hall. The city has all the power when it comes to granting permits. In many ways these contracts between municipality and developers could be considered to be undue influence - the city seems to have almost all of the power. I certainly don't envy developers who have to deal with the HRM council.
1. There is no evidence that the land was intended to be used for green space... and even if an agreement to do so ever existed (Not being cute here... have yet to be provided with such an agreement), it would need to be registered at the Land Registry to bind a third party (i.e. us) - which it never was..

2. Developers challenge incorrect decisions by Halifax "City Hall" on an all-to-regular basis and win in court and at the URB. The City does not have all the power...they need to respect the law like everyone else does...which is what makes this sooooo frustrating.

Peter Polley
Polycorp
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  #115  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2010, 3:27 AM
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Originally Posted by POLYCORP-Pete Polley View Post
1. There is no evidence that the land was intended to be used for green space... and even if an agreement to do so ever existed (Not being cute here... have yet to be provided with such an agreement), it would need to be registered at the Land Registry to bind a third party (i.e. us) - which it never was..

2. Developers challenge incorrect decisions by Halifax "City Hall" on an all-to-regular basis and win in court and at the URB. The City does not have all the power...they need to respect the law like everyone else does...which is what makes this sooooo frustrating.

Peter Polley
Polycorp
Good luck. I think that the city really needs to show more appreciation to developers who keep investing in the municipality and certainly they need to follow the law like everyone else.
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  #116  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2010, 5:18 AM
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Good luck. I think that the city really needs to show more appreciation to developers who keep investing in the municipality and certainly they need to follow the law like everyone else.
The challenge with planning policies (which I've learned over the years) is that it's a matter of interepretation. So a policy, which I may interpret one way; if someone replaces me, may interpret in a completely different way (if the policy is not very specific).

A good example in HRM terms is the whole rampart height issue; it's never really been defined - so what planning staff may see as the rampart height, would be different than a developer or the heritage trust.

I for one, like clear policy - very little room for wiggle, but it's often clear.

It's sounding like if there was an agreement and it was properly registered (assumption) it may be an error on the part of the registry. Would be interesting to see if it proof could be provided that it was registered and then the registry screwed up - would be a first. Not that I want difficulty for this project; but I've never seen a registry screw up - they are usually quite on the ball.

I think most planning departments do show appreciation - but have to becareful about how to do that. Remember, planners have to be impartial when making decisions (there is actually professional ethics about that). But you can still be professional and courteous and refuse an application. It's a matter of clear communication and just being polite about it. When I was a DO, I refused lots of stuff for various reasons - but I never was rude to people about it. I'd always explain why I made the decision I did and tell them their options. If the appeal changed my decision, it wasn't an us versus them decision - it was a matter of making sure that I followed a clear process of decision making. Although I do admit if someone was rude and cranky and I refused something and they didn't get it; once in a while I'd have a little snicker.
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  #117  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2010, 6:23 AM
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The viewplane bylaws are not ambiguous. They're essentially mathematically defined based on a series of fixed viewpoints. The problem is that some people either misunderstand the bylaws or purposefully misrepresent them.

There is vague language in the MPS about how buildings should be in keeping with others around them, and this was often a basis for legal appeals. Sometimes these appeals would be presented to the public as appeals based on violations of the viewplanes, which is incorrect.
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  #118  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2010, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post

A good example in HRM terms is the whole rampart height issue; it's never really been defined - so what planning staff may see as the rampart height, would be different than a developer or the heritage trust.

I for one, like clear policy - very little room for wiggle, but it's often clear.
I agree that this is very open ended. The basic viewplanes are defined in the vertical and horizontal plane but no one seems to know where the rampart viewplane is defined from. To say a building shouldn't be visible form inside the citadel is leaving a gap of about 5+ storeys depending on where you define the viewplane from. Is it from the centre of parade sq.? Is it 5ft above the ground? This angle could mean a big difference for a building in the Purdy's Wharf area.
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  #119  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2010, 6:48 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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The viewplane bylaws are not ambiguous. They're essentially mathematically defined based on a series of fixed viewpoints. The problem is that some people either misunderstand the bylaws or purposefully misrepresent them.

There is vague language in the MPS about how buildings should be in keeping with others around them, and this was often a basis for legal appeals. Sometimes these appeals would be presented to the public as appeals based on violations of the viewplanes, which is incorrect.
I wasn't talking about the viewplane geodedtic heights themselves, I realize the planes and elevation heights as they go down from specified points are specific. But I seem to recall reading (either on this board or in the media) Andy Fillmore saying that the actual maximum elevation of the ramparts wasn't specifically defined. So there was confusion what that really was: whether it was the geodedtic elevation above sea level of the highest point of the rampart (which would benefit developers getting a taller building) or the elevation of the ground of the parade square within the fort (which would benefit anti-development groups by reducing building heights). That's what I was trying to get at, sorry if I wasn't clear.

But if this is the case, that this concept isn't clearly defined - then yes, it should be defined so that there is no confusion. In my opinion, if they define it as the height of the parade square, I'd be quite disappointed - why does it matter you can't see a building from inside the fort?

I've always believed that with such major issues like this; you really have to go back to the original report that got the legislation in place to understand intent. I'd hope that somewhere in the vaults of HRM is an original copy of the report to Halifax city council - that's where you will get the interpretations. I've been working on some stuff in calgary and been sifting through old reports and it's amazing how the original intent of things just gets lost over the years.
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  #120  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2010, 7:30 PM
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I wasn't talking about the viewplane geodedtic heights themselves, I realize the planes and elevation heights as they go down from specified points are specific. But I seem to recall reading (either on this board or in the media) Andy Fillmore saying that the actual maximum elevation of the ramparts wasn't specifically defined. So there was confusion what that really was: whether it was the geodedtic elevation above sea level of the highest point of the rampart (which would benefit developers getting a taller building) or the elevation of the ground of the parade square within the fort (which would benefit anti-development groups by reducing building heights). That's what I was trying to get at, sorry if I wasn't clear.
That sounds odd.. usually when it comes to the parade square the complaint has been that buildings would be visible from inside, not that they would happen to exceed the height of the ground inside. Using the height of the ground inside seems totally worthless as it is not directly connected to anything meaningful.

83 m is one number I have heard tossed around before. I believe the top of the Citadel is 70 m above sea level.
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