Downtown Vancouver Updates

[jlousa]

The residents still have a point and their opinions matter more then any of ours. Any development should always improve an area and needs to work with it's neighbours not against them. My opinion is this proposal will get a lot less backlash as some of the others have.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by jlousa

As someone mentioned the Pendrell project above, I figured I'd provide the details on it. I think it looks pretty good, but I'm sure someone will mention how lackluster it is.

Haha well maybe that's cause it is kinda lackluster

Oh well its good infill, and if the materials used are good it could actually end up looking quite nice.

[Hed Kandi]

..

[SpongeG]

i think developers know what the city wants and what they can get passed etc and therefore they know who to go to in terms of architects - why go drop millions on a starchitect that comes back with something that will never be allowed to be built or end up having to be so modified to meet what the city wants - best to go safe and tried and true

sad but thats what we have going in the city for teh most part

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Hed Kandi

Those resumes would be further screened until a select group of candidates were identified. Merit would be based on qualifications (aesthetic quality).

here's what you dont get about the process... architects are not picked on aesthetic quality, they are picked on their ability to deliver a low cost project that will be pushed through the permitting process as quickly as possible. Architecture is first and foremost a business, and an art second.

Sometimes asthetics are important if the development is in a sensitive or high traffic area or is going to be a tall visible building, but for the most part asthetics do not play a large part in the process. sometimes you get an idealist such as Pappajohn (the original developer behind the jamieson) or Ian Gillespie of westbank who push for more innovative designs for more intangible reasons, but these types of people are rare in business.

Some good news is we seem to be getting a bit more variety lately, which is porbably a product of the UDP pushing the developers a bit harder due to the criticisims of homogeniety seen in some designs.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Some good news is we seem to be getting a bit more variety lately, which is porbably a product of the UDP pushing the developers a bit harder due to the criticisims of homogeniety seen in some designs.

You have things in reverse. The homogeniety and blandness are the product of the UDP. Anything truly original, unique, visionary, radical or tall is squashed by our architectural overseers, and thus what you see today is the result of architects conforming to the UDP's demands and tastes.

[AlexYVR]

Originally Posted by Hed Kandi

Currently the way the architect/developer process appears to play out is that the employer hires the first the blockhead who walks in the door with a resume.

It's not about looks - in some cases, it's about who delivers an innovative project. In other cases, it's about who delivers a sustainable project, or maybe the architect is amazing at surface-level detail (befitting a residential project) and not great at the tower aspect.

Architects usually serve as prime consultants so as much as the architect is being chosen, the developer is also choosing the team that comes with (M&E, Civil, Structural, Landscape, Interiors, etc).

The selection process is nearly always a bid process (and is always a bid process with public buildings like social housing). An RFP is issued, architects respond, some are shortlisted, they go through an interview process, and they are selected.

I have given up way too much of my young life to RFPs so it's a bit frustrating sometimes (as much as we all want good looking buildings!) that low-rise projects with such obvious purpose (social housing) are held to the same standards as Jameson House or Patina in people's eyes. You think people are pissed about social housing in Olympic Village? Imagine Norm Foster designed social housing? The city would burn.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

You have things in reverse. The homogeniety and blandness is precisely the product of the UDP. Anything remotely original, unique, visionary, radical or tall is invariably squelched by our risk-averse architectural overseers, and what you see today is the product of architects playing to their demands and tastes.

Well no in fact it does work both ways, they are responsible for the dumbing down of some better projects but also the sprucing up of a lot of bad projects.

Anyway my point wasnt about the UDP in general, but about their recent trend over the last year or so to push for more innovative designs. Time will tell whether they stick with that trend or not.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i think developers know what the city wants and what they can get passed etc and therefore they know who to go to in terms of architects

BINGO! Everybody knows by now, especially developers who are frequent to the Vancouver scene, what will be accepted.

The UDP serves a purpose, but I think they may be a bit overzealous. Which isn't surprising, as part of the government Vancouver has...

[SpongeG]

I think it be fair to add most daring architecture in the world is usually publicly funded or public institutional kind of stuff like libraries, galleries, even churches ie vancouver library, ROM in ontario, etc etc

even offices are going to be able to be a little more risky than residential on a large scale - residential on a small scale can be a little more interesting

cities are more keen to let that sort of stuff pass with less restrictions cause a star building can draw interest in the city itself and all cities love promotion

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

You have things in reverse. The homogeniety and blandness is precisely the product of the UDP. Anything remotely original, unique, visionary, radical or tall is famously squelched by our risk-averse architectural overseers, and thus what you see today is the product of architects playing to their demands and tastes.

Have you every actually attended the Urban Design Panel?

[jlousa]

SFUVancouver, I think we both know that most of the complainers have never set foot in an UDP meeting, nor even know the purpose of the UDP. We all know random forumers from the Internet are more versed then professionals in the industry selectively chosen.

It's nice when you don't have to take into consideration financial feasibilities of a project, the ability to sell the project to end users etc. People don't realize just how tight the margins are on these projects and that it's not unusual to only break even on even a large project after all costs are accounted for.

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by jlousa

SFUVancouver, I think we both know that most of the complainers have never set foot in an UDP meeting, nor even know the purpose of the UDP. We all know random forumers from the Internet are more versed then professionals in the industry selectively chosen.

It's nice when you don't have to take into consideration financial feasibilities of a project, the ability to sell the project to end users etc. People don't realize just how tight the margins are on these projects and that it's not unusual to only break even on even a large project after all costs are accounted for.

Nice pot shot, sadly true though.

Why are the costs for development so high in Vancouver? Prices in Van are higher then anywhere else in the country, so why are profits only marginal?

[Yume-sama]

Prices are higher, but so are prices of everything else. Material, labor, etc.

I don't honestly know the exact profit margins, but I believe when jlousa says they aren't that high.

[vancityrox]

Does anyone know what that huge white tent is for that they are building next to GM Place in the empty lot? Looks like an Olympics style tent like the Hockey House.

[Yume-sama]

I bet the Canucks are already building their Stanley Cup Parade float. *sigh*

[Denscity]

Stanley Cup in Stanley Park!!

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by vancityrox

Does anyone know what that huge white tent is for that they are building next to GM Place in the empty lot? Looks like an Olympics style tent like the Hockey House.

BMO Vancouver Marathon

the Concord Lands there are used year round for things like this

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Have you every actually attended the Urban Design Panel?

Have you? Have you read the minutes of UDP meetings and their commentaries over the years?

If you have, then you should know that the UDP is where bold design goes to die.

This is a fact that even Bruce Haden (the current Chair and a strong defender of the UDP) concedes: "My sense of the pros and cons of the Design Panel process was somewhat akin to that of prescriptive design guidelines. Often, they help cut out the worst design, but they can also cut out the best." (http://www.canadianarchitect.com/issues/story.aspx?aid=1000193950&type=Print%20Archives)

In other words, the UDP, for better or for worse, tends to reduce Vancouver architecture to a common denominator.

That is quite an admission and underscores my point: The UDP is not the ameliorator of Vancouver's current homogeneity, but its cause.

[nova9]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Have you? Or have you read the minutes of UDP meetings and commentary over the years?

If you have, then you should know that the UDP is where bold design goes to die.

Even Bruce Haden (the current Chair and a strong defender of the UDP) conceded: "My sense of the pros and cons of the Design Panel process was somewhat akin to that of prescriptive design guidelines. Often, they help cut out the worst design, but they can also cut out the best." (Source: http://www.canadianarchitect.com/issues/story.aspx?aid=1000193950&type=Print%20Archives)

In other words, the UDP, for better or for worse, tends to reduce Vancouver architecture to a common denominator.

That is quite an admission and underscores the true source of homogeneity in comtemporary Vancouver architectural design.

So I repeat: The UDP is not the amelioration of the current homogeneity, but its cause.

I've never been to a UDP meeting but I like how you chose to bold the "but..." statement and not the part that says "often, [the UDP] help cut out the worst design..."

Nice.