Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[WarrenC12]

We were supposed to get an announcement from the Provincial Govt this week right? Or was it just April 2010? Seems to be constantly delayed...

[wrenegade]

So if we assume that all the money promised (Province, Translink, Feds) shows up, and we still have $173 million outstanding, why aren't Port Moody and Coquitlam stepping up to the table? I've never understood this, is there something I'm missing? YVR stepped up and provided money for the Canada Line, as obviously they benefit from it, and I'm sure UBC would step up when/if the Broadway extension gets going. With the municipalities of Coquitlam and Port Moody almost exclusively getting all the benefit from this line, where the hell is the money? While I realize they may be in tough as many municipalities are right now, even if they could collectively come up with half or even a quarter of the outstanding it would be helpful. What about trading height allowances for larger DCCs from developers, isn't the Coquitlam area building a bunch of towers now?

They've been begging for this line for what, almost 10 years now? Have they ever offered any money themselves? (This is a serious question, not just a rant).

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Does anyone have an idea where Lincoln Station would go? I'd imagine it would need to go in the middle of the street and have the exit on the grounds of Coquitlam Centre..

I figure it would go at the side of the street here (much shorter station elevation/profile) although it says "Northern Ave.":

(pic from Evergreen Line website)


http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/photo_gallery/2009/091015/091015_Pinetree.jpg

[SpongeG]

there is no station there - there is one at douglas with nothing until coquitlam centre aka where the bus loop is now on the south side of the lougheed

[Metro-One]

Yes but there should be a station built there, or at least have the guideway designed for the future addition of a station there. Same for along North Road, there should be a station (or the potential for a station in the future) near the new condo towers project that was just completed.

[touraccuracy]

^eh... that's like a block away from lougheed station. then again cc station and lincoln would probably be about the same distance... i'm gunna go measure the difference and report back.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I figure it would go at the side of the street here (much shorter station elevation/profile) although it says "Northern Ave.":

(pic from Evergreen Line website)


http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/photo_gallery/2009/091015/091015_Pinetree.jpg

"Northern Ave" I think is the next intersection North of Lincoln Ave on the North side of the current mall parking lot. So I think the future Lincoln station would go right where the train is in the picture or a little bit further out of frame. So the station would be located overtop of the mall parking lot

[GeeCee]

Google Maps..



Red line is Northern Ave.. putting it where the train is in the above diagram would be kind of needlessly far from the mall. (Henderson Place doesn't count)

[huenthar]

Why are people so concerned with having the station as close to the mall as possible? Personally I'm more concerned with having the stations as close to the residential areas as possible... I think, to get people to use the system more, having the train that much closer to where you live is a much bigger incentive than having the train that much closer to the mall. As such, I'd rather see the station on the south side of Glen Drive...

(ideally I would rather the whole line have gone down Guildford, have a station at Guildford and Pinetree and then at Lincoln for the mall and then on to PoCo, and skip Coquitlam Central altogether...)

[Metro-One]

Because mass transit only works when it also reaches people's destinations.
Also it is more than just the 1 mall, that area is the commercial heart of Coquitlam (essentially Coquitlam's downtown) and is planned for major increases in density over the next couple decades. As you may have noted, there are many new residential towers already built an open within the vicinity of the area.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by awvan

They've been begging for this line for what, almost 10 years now? Have they ever offered any money themselves? (This is a serious question, not just a rant).

Coquitlam and Port Moody pay their fair share to Translink like Vancouver and Richmond and the demand is there. If Vancouver and Richmond did not have to cough up their own money to build the Canada Line, why does Coquitlam and Port Moody?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Coquitlam and Port Moody pay their fair share to Translink like Vancouver and Richmond and the demand is there. If Vancouver and Richmond did not have to cough up their own money to build the Canada Line, why does Coquitlam and Port Moody?

Didn't Vancouver have to cough up $100 million for the Olympic station, after it was removed from the plans in order to reduce the construction cost of the Canada Line?

Perhaps this is what needs to be done for Millennium line: drop a station or two to get the construction costs within budget. If the local gov't insists they need a station, they can pay for it to be put back in.

[GeeCee]

$160 million according to the Klein report. The communities along the route don't have the kind of money to be buying their own stations, and I'm not sure why people keep bringing up this idiotic notion that local communities should have to. Rapid transit serves the region, not just the 27,000 towns that it passes through.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

$160 million according to the Klein report. The communities along the route don't have the kind of money to be buying their own stations, and I'm not sure why people keep bringing up this idiotic notion that local communities should have to. Rapid transit serves the region, not just the 27,000 towns that it passes through.

Those communities don't, but Vancouver does?

[wrenegade]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Coquitlam and Port Moody pay their fair share to Translink like Vancouver and Richmond and the demand is there. If Vancouver and Richmond did not have to cough up their own money to build the Canada Line, why does Coquitlam and Port Moody?

West Vancouver also pays their fair share to Translink and the transit here is BS. I don't think "paying your fair share" to translink entitles you to a skytrain line, that's a different league as compared to bus service.

And no offence, but would the Evergreen Line really serve "the region"? Coquitlam and Port Moody are largely bedroom communities and my guess is that the bulk of ridership will be towards downtown in the morning and back in the evening. Don't get me wrong, I totally support the line and believe the area needs it, but I don't think it serves the region like the Canada Line does, or the UBC Line would. Both have huge employment centres at the end in addition to serving residents.

I wouldn't expect the area to contribute anything like the $160 million the CoV did, but I think something needs to be contributed. I mean, we all want for this to happen, but it means more to the area than most and they should pay for it. By the same token, if North Van is upset the 3rd Seabus isn't running, I would argue that the city and the district there should chip in if they want it.

[DKaz]

Then why was Lake City Way Station built? Talk about complete waste of money!!

Coquitlam and Port Moody should pay for the one additional station they are requesting, Translink/the provs/the feds should provide the minimum requirements system.

For all intents and purposes, I take the bus to West Van and North Van to go see clients frequently and the bus system is just fine, although I am rooting for an LRT system from Park Royal to Cap U one day.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Coquitlam and Port Moody pay their fair share to Translink like Vancouver and Richmond and the demand is there. If Vancouver and Richmond did not have to cough up their own money to build the Canada Line, why does Coquitlam and Port Moody?

Originally Posted by awvan

West Vancouver also pays their fair share to Translink and the transit here is BS. I don't think "paying your fair share" to translink entitles you to a skytrain line, that's a different league as compared to bus service.

And no offence, but would the Evergreen Line really serve "the region"? Coquitlam and Port Moody are largely bedroom communities and my guess is that the bulk of ridership will be towards downtown in the morning and back in the evening. Don't get me wrong, I totally support the line and believe the area needs it, but I don't think it serves the region like the Canada Line does, or the UBC Line would. Both have huge employment centres at the end in addition to serving residents.

I wouldn't expect the area to contribute anything like the $160 million the CoV did, but I think something needs to be contributed. I mean, we all want for this to happen, but it means more to the area than most and they should pay for it. By the same token, if North Van is upset the 3rd Seabus isn't running, I would argue that the city and the district there should chip in if they want it.

I'm shocked that people actually believe that it's okay for the Tri-Cities to have to pay a part of the bill here!

Additional stations are one thing. Yes, the CoV paid for Olympic Village on their own because it was an extra, non-essential station. Just as Capstan Way was planned to be paid for by an adjacent development in Richmond. That makes sense, and if Coquitlam really wants a third station, they can pay for it.

However, let's not make this a debate about pitting one section of the region against the other, especially when we're so close to the finish line. The Evergreen Line and the UBC extension are the final components of the long envisioned rapid transit network. Both are equally important to the system.

The Tri-Cities have long been planned to capture much of the growth of the region, as it was not supposed to occur in the floodplains of Richmond, nor the North Shore. One of the troubles with the area right now is how disconnected it is from the rest of the region. I would love to live in Newport Village or Coquitlam Centre if it had a SkyTrain connection, and I suspect many others would as well.

All the municipalities in the region have been paying into the collective TransLink bucket for a decade. That money has paid for the operations of service across the Metro, and part of the capital for the third SeaBus and the Canada Line. The taxes paid by the Tri-Cities, and the South of Fraser for that matter, have gone towards building massive infrastructure for Vancouver and Burnaby. True fairness would be ensuring that the eastern sections of the region get their own major infrastructure upgrades - especially when the impact of rapid transit will be much greater in these areas (shape growth, rather than feed existing demand).

[Zassk]

Well, the east side of the region is going to get probably the biggest piece of infrastructure in Translink's history - the new Patullo Bridge - sooner or later. That's not transit, but we can't ignore the magnitude of that upcoming investment.

I am all for Evergreen, but it is a huge investment compared to the population that is in that quadrant today or even 20 years from now. Based on the 20-year growth projections, Surrey should be getting priority over Evergreen. I know, "everyone" really wants to concentrate regional growth in the Tri-Cities, but isn't the bedrock just as good along the Broadway or Kingsway corridors? I wonder if the livable region would be better served by density increases in areas already served by rapid transit. The area served by Evergreen is the smallest and most remote of the "town centre" bubbles on the regional map, both in population and employment.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by touraccuracy

^eh... that's like a block away from lougheed station. then again cc station and lincoln would probably be about the same distance... i'm gunna go measure the difference and report back.

There's a report somewhere - either Coquitlam City Council or TransLink that examines the station spacing and extra time for a Lincoln Station, etc.

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Google Maps..
Red line is Northern Ave.. putting it where the train is in the above diagram would be kind of needlessly far from the mall. (Henderson Place doesn't count)

It should be up to the property owner to build development up to the station, not a requirement for the transit line to spend extra money to divert to the mall. It'll make for a better built environment in the long term, rather than having a guideway snake around.

*******

CoV did not spend $100 million or $160 million on Olympic Village Station - it was $29 million. Source: Wkipedia (but it has a cite). That station was a future station and the City accelerated it (because of its interest in SEFC).
Lincoln Station will also be a future station...

*******

I doubt there will be a future station at Cameron St. - the guideway is slated to run down the middle of the street meaning that extra tall columns would be required to build a station (to fit a mezzanine across the street below the guideway, like Brentwood). Side-of-the-street stations are much easier to build as future stations.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Well, the east side of the region is going to get probably the biggest piece of infrastructure in Translink's history - the new Patullo Bridge - sooner or later. That's not transit, but we can't ignore the magnitude of that upcoming investment.

I am all for Evergreen, but it is a huge investment compared to the population that is in that quadrant today or even 20 years from now. Based on the 20-year growth projections, Surrey should be getting priority over Evergreen. I know, "everyone" really wants to concentrate regional growth in the Tri-Cities, but isn't the bedrock just as good along the Broadway or Kingsway corridors? I wonder if the livable region would be better served by density increases in areas already served by rapid transit. The area served by Evergreen is the smallest and most remote of the "town centre" bubbles on the regional map, both in population and employment.

Don't forget about the GEB. So much talk of "suburb to suburb commuting", yet that bridge is below expectations. Meanwhile yet another line into Downtown Vancouver exceeds ridership predictions.

Speaking of transit in general, what about the Gateway project? More than the UBC Line... that's all for the east.

If we were planning free of regional politics, #1 priority would be UBC Line, #2 would be improvements in Surrey (LRT/Skytrain combo), #3 would be the Tri-Cities.