Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction - Page 156

trofirhen · #**3101** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 1:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ Fully bored tunnel (which usually involved deeper stations depending on rock), larger stations, tie in with existing line, construction inflation, large trunk utilities running in and around the corridor.

Plus you never want to scope out your budget too small, or else you could get cancelled later.

If that's what you recommend: (the fully bored tunnel all the way, etc) I agree 100 per cent.

twoNeurons · #**3102** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 1:45 PM**

I can't remember the last time I used the trip planner. http://maps.google.com/transit is just plain more user friendly.

@jsbertram: You should check out http://m.translink.ca

I have my favorite bus stops saved in my favorites in my phone:

eg. A random stop: http://m.translink.ca/stop/50613/

MalcolmTucker · #**3103** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 2:21 PM**

^ you're what people would call a power user. But just like you don't design bike lanes for couriers but instead a 60 yearold with two bags of groceries, you have to design transit around the actions of most people.

jlousa · #**3104** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 2:40 PM**

If it's any help just the next bus system handles over 700,000 requests a month, that's well over 20K per day. This number was posted by me back via a rfp from translink back in Sept/09, so it's relatively current.

officedweller · #**3105** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 6:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by deasine

Just a crazy idea if we are insistent on P3 projects (which in this case, it really doesn't matter), but if Lougheed was properly configured so that the tracks of the Evergreen Line don't criss cross with the Millennium Line, it would be possible to P3 the entire Evergreen Line right from UBC to Douglas College.

The sharing of trackage wouldn't pose a problem to operating an independent service from Douglas to UBC, - it would be the sharing / dependence on TransLink storage yards, maintenence facilities and computer control that would be a headache. I suppose you could have the P3 partner contract those services to TransLink, but then so many aspects of the operation would be out of the control of the P3 partner that a P3 partner would probably shy away from it.

nname · #**3106** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 6:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

In Portland I believe the study was less that 2% of system users ever used their online trip planning or next bus service (which was also available by phone). The number was used in the context to justify spending money to upgrade their next bus system to have physical displays at main stops and stations.

I don't think any system would really by far from that level in all respects. Even at 5% it would be a pretty tiny portion of ridership.

According to TL news release, there are 75k hits on the trip planner during the 17 days olympic period. Total boarding is 26M during that time, so that's about 2.9%. Assume each trip takes 1.6 transfers (system-wide average for the past few years) and everyone is making a round trip, that would be 9.2%. And what about the people who plan for multiple days? The number would be way above 10% I guess... And this number doesn't include the next bus users, trip planner from Google Map, phone call to customer relation (11.5k during that time), paper schedule, and cell phone schedule lookup...

Source - all the way to the bottom of the page.

CLC · #**3107** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 7:14 PM**

CKNW: Don't miss Thursday's meeting

Quote:

VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980)
Marcella Bernardo | Email news tips to Marcella
4/21/2010

The first of five public consultations on a rapid transit line to UBC is set for Thursday, April 22nd at the University's Student Union Building between 6 and 9 pm.

Translink's looking for input on whether light rail, Skytrain or increased bus service are the best options.

Preliminary consultations were held in January and the last workshop is May 13th.

No word yet on when the new system will be implemented. Translink executives have already said their top priority is building the long-awaited Evergreen Line.

cabotp · #**3108** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 7:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ What I am saying is most users don't plan their route anymore than looking at the rail plan, and to plan a network not to take into account that fact is doomed to introduce unforeseen inefficiencies because people will take the routes that look fastest to them using available information, not routes that are actually fastest.

If you don't build capacity for them to take the routes they will use because of their choice you are in for a world of hurt.

I would agree that a lot of people don't plan the best route for themselves. They try to get onto the skytrain even though another bus route might be the best option.

Sometimes though the time difference isn't all that much different one route from the next. Also one route might be faster, but because of lower headways. Missed connections could make it longer. So people will take a 2nd route where headways are better thus alleviating the problem of a missed connection.

There is also the factor that some people can get lost very easily. They don't have the spatial orientation capacity to understand how to take a different route. Nor are they able to read a map all that well or even the trip planner all that well. They just take are route that they figured out in their head. Changing that route would be akin the the sky falling.

Even people who drive may not take the best route possible.

BCPhil · #**3109** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 8:51 PM**

Studies have shown that simple brain exercises like taking an unusual route home once a week, can delay the development of Alzheimer's disease or dementia. So think of offering multiple routes which require thinking to take, a public health issue.

Plus, it wouldn't hurt translink to advertise on TV! It's a service that has to compete with other modes of transportation. I'm not in the market to buy a car, but I'm watching a commercial for a Lancer right now as I type. Advertising a service like Next Bus or trip planner to the general public who might not be aware of services like that to make life easy might get more people to use it. (and not just on the ads already IN the stations, like hey, I'm in a station already, what do I need to know about next bus for?).

officedweller · #**3110** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 9:19 PM**

Hmmm, instead of the "L" shaped line (along Arbutus/ along Broadway) I suggested earlier, if we end up with a phased-in Combined Option, I would rather see this (my modification of the TransLink Combined Option map)
- rather than using the streetcar RoW for LRT feeding into the already congested Expo Line.
The LRT would cut from the Arbutus RoW near Fir St. to an underground station at the Granville Bridge's SW cloverleaf loop and emerge from a portal in the centre lanes of Granville Bridge and continue into downtown.
The streetcar plans would continue, providing local service as planned (except for the Arbutus corridor).

trofirhen · #**3111** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 10:46 PM**

I like your idea for the Arbutus portion, but I would still rather have skytrain metro all the way to UBC

CLC · #**3112** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 10:49 PM**

From a Portland blogger: Light rail is fragile public transportation

http://www.examiner.com/x-6008-Portland-Public-Transportation-
Examiner~y2010m4d18-Light-rail-is-fragile-public-transportation

officedweller · #**3113** Posted **Apr 21, 2010, 11:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I like your idea for the Arbutus portion, but I would still rather have skytrain metro all the way to UBC

Ditto - this would only be if they choose not to run SkyTrain all the way to UBC

jsbertram · #**3114** Posted **Apr 22, 2010, 12:13 AM**

Something I'd worked on a while ago, and forgot about:

The Yellow alignment is phase one of the Downtown Streetcar that CoV is planning

The Green alignment is for the Heritage Trams to use so they can circulate through Granville Island, and connect with the Downtown Streetcar at the Granville Island platform that was used for the Olympic Demo.

The Light Blue alignment is the routing of the streetcar subway running under Burrard Street. This gives Downtown two separate rail lines from the harbourfront to False Creek.

The Red alignment is reusing the CPR abandoned Arbutus Corridor ROW. Some Streetcars will use this routing directly into the Burrard Streetcar Subway, others will use the Yellow alignment into the Burrard Subway.

Dark Blue is the Kits Festival route that can be used to get people to Kits Point for the annual festivals.

For the people who would find it convenient, they can take the downtown streetcar to the Arbutus/Broadway stations & transfer to the UBC Skytrain (eastbound to PoCo or westbound to UBC). Some people would find it more convenient to take the the downtown streetcar to Olympic Station to transfer to the C-Line. Some people would find it convenient to take the the downtown streetcar to Waterfront Station to transfer to the Canada, Expo or Millennium lines. And there will still be plenty of people who will take the the downtown streetcar just to get around the downtown peninsula, or for short trips from Downtown to South False Creek that can't be easily done with buses.

amor de cosmos · #**3115** Posted **Apr 22, 2010, 12:19 AM**

this thread is mentioned in the latest buzzer entry

http://buzzer.translink.ca/index.php/201...inks-and-tidbits-for-wednesday-april-21/

trofirhen · #**3116** Posted **Apr 22, 2010, 1:13 AM**

double post: see below

OhioGuy · #**3117** Posted **Apr 22, 2010, 1:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

I'd rather see Skytrain to UBC and the LRT along Arbutus, but descending into a subway alongside Pennyfarthing Drive and traveling up Burrard Street through downtown rather than sticking it in the same subway as the Canada Line.

trofirhen · #**3118** Posted **Apr 22, 2010, 1:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

I'd rather see Skytrain to UBC and the LRT along Arbutus, but descending into a subway alongside Pennyfarthing Drive and traveling up Burrard Street through downtown rather than sticking it in the same subway as the Canada Line.

It seems to go in the same tunnel as the Canada Line on the map, but putting it UNDER Burrard Street is what I think is what jsbertram had in mind.

Mr. Bertram, you DID mean for it to go underground downtown, didn't you?

trofirhen · #**3119** Posted **Apr 22, 2010, 1:38 AM**

[QUOTE=trofirhen;4806195]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

The Red alignment is reusing the CPR abandoned Arbutus Corridor ROW. Some Streetcars will use this routing directly into the Burrard Streetcar Subway, others will use the Yellow alignment into the Burrard Subway.

Some streetcars are doing sort of a loop around downtown, and onto the Burrard Subway, others are coming UP Arbutus, and entering the same subway. Now I get it. Sorry about all this. It's a really good idea for getting around locally! And a good use of some infrastructure that is already there.

deasine · #**3120** Posted **Apr 22, 2010, 2:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy

I'd rather see Skytrain to UBC and the LRT along Arbutus, but descending into a subway alongside Pennyfarthing Drive and traveling up Burrard Street through downtown rather than sticking it in the same subway as the Canada Line.

Same here. I think a LRT subway would be a great addition to the downtown core and properly connect the Kitsilano with downtown. Passengers on the Millennium Line would have a variety of transfer choices going to downtown, whether that's via the Expo Line, Canada Line, or Arbutus LRT. With a LRT subway, you can also have LRT from UBC to Downtown, LRT Arbutus, and Streetcar Granville Island/False Creek Flats, all in one.

The only problem with any LRT subway idea is the fact we aren't saving any money at the end of the day.