YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[SpongeG]

out of YVR? lol there is nowhere to go from YVR unless you go to Toronto and fly isn't that what everyone whines about in here? hehe

but not many options this week - I wonder how long it will last

[Millennium2002]

Radar doesn't really help detect ash. The dust isn't as detectable as rain. In fact, BBC news reports say meteorologists can only predict where it might be by using visual indications and wind speed and not by using tracking instruments or anything.

If this continues, I think that Iceland should then immediately hose down the dust and cap the vent with an emergency cover.

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

If this continues, I think that Iceland should then immediately hose down the dust and cap the vent with an emergency cover.

Right. Good luck with that.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Locked In

Apparently the last time this volcano erupted it continued to pour out ash for 18 months. How on earth would they deal with that?

An antique device called a 'BOAT', sometimes called a 'SHIP'.
Quite popular for moving passengers until the 50's when jetliners became reliable and cheap.

My solution: Fly the planes to an east coast airport; roll them off the runway onto barges; tow them to England or France; roll them onto nearby runways; continue the flight as if nothing has happened.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Fly to Spain and train? Develop much higher altitude airplanes? Fit aircraft with a more advanced radar to help steer around ash.

Best idea is to just wait I guess, soon air lines will be flying again to the continent at least (Frankfurt), will just have to take a much longer route.

Why not fly the other way via Asia & India to a Mediterranean city in France, Spain or Italy, and then take the train the rest of the way?

[Millennium2002]

Actually circumnavigating part of the world is not a bad "alternate route or method" idea... since everyone has been stuck for at least a day or more now...

I also think cruise ships should restart temporary relief services between Europe and North America.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Actually circumnavigating part of the world is not a bad "alternate route or method" idea... since everyone has been stuck for at least a day or more now...

I also think cruise ships should restart temporary relief services between Europe and North America.

Cruise ships aren't designed for trans ocean voyages, it would be an 'experience' for the passengers to be sure.

As for Radar not detecting ash - yeah there is a reason they can't fly around today. If the problem persists for another week who knows maybe just a firmware update and some tweaks will give a rudimentary capacity. Over time trying different frequencies might work, and after that other 'alternative' technologies.

[twoNeurons]

Sorry, guys... I was planning for the eruption for December 21, 2012 as part of a much bigger show. Consider this a sneak preview...


bwwaaaaa haa ha ha haa

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Cruise ships aren't designed for trans ocean voyages, it would be an 'experience' for the passengers to be sure.

As for Radar not detecting ash - yeah there is a reason they can't fly around today. If the problem persists for another week who knows maybe just a firmware update and some tweaks will give a rudimentary capacity. Over time trying different frequencies might work, and after that other 'alternative' technologies.

Funny how the Alaska Cruise ships don't have a problem doing the Vancouver - Alaska - Hawaii - California - Mexico - Panama - Florida route as part of their winter repositioning at the end of the Alaska season

Best six weeks of sailing the family has ever had.

I'm curious why you think trans-atlantic sailing is such an 'experience' when compared to coastal-pacific and trans-pacific sailing.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Sorry, guys... I was planning for the eruption for December 21, 2012 as part of a much bigger show. Consider this a sneak preview...


bwwaaaaa haa ha ha haa

Aha! A psychopath with cosmic powers planning the end of the world. (Can I be part of it, too please? I want to hear the screams, the explosions ...... to see the smoke-filled terror in humanity's eyes in their final moments....)

[johnjimbc]

The problem flying through a thin layer of ash is like flying through particles of fine rocks . . . hard as rocks or glass but suspended in air. It's the kind of dust you can die breathing cause it collects in your lungs. I'm sure when it's thick enough, it shows up on radar. But my understanding is in thin layers, it's scarcely visible but highly destructive.

There was a plane that barely escaped flying through it somewhere in the Pacific back in the 80s. Pilots saw nothing - even visually - yet the plane engines all shut down entirely and electrical systems failed. Once they got the engines restarted after a harrowing plunge, they climbed back to altitude and the same thing started happening again. After they landed mechanics said the engines looked like they had been sandblasted with destructive force. No one even realized what caused it until after investigators put two and two together, realizing the intersection of the flight path with air patterns from a volcanic eruption several hundred miles away.

Volcanic ash is nothing like the image we have of "ash" . . . it is much more insidious, yet can appear as just a layer of light haze.

[officedweller]

My understanding is that the ash does not show up on radar (unlike clouds) beacuse theire is no moisture in it. That what was said in a "Mayday" episode on a flight in the 1980s that lost all engines between Malaysia and Austrailia due a volcanic ash cloud.

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Funny how the Alaska Cruise ships don't have a problem doing the Vancouver - Alaska - Hawaii - California - Mexico - Panama - Florida route as part of their winter repositioning at the end of the Alaska season

Best six weeks of sailing the family has ever had.

I'm curious why you think trans-atlantic sailing is such an 'experience' when compared to coastal-pacific and trans-pacific sailing.

The ships are definitely designed differently - I recall a Discovery channel show on the Queen Mary II).
The "ocean liners" are definitely built more rugged than "cruise ships".
The repositioning cruises would typically stick close to shore and may be a favourable times of year.

i.e. Ships such as the Queen Mary II are built to withstand huge seas on a regular basis, while cruise ships are not.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Funny how the Alaska Cruise ships don't have a problem doing the Vancouver - Alaska - Hawaii - California - Mexico - Panama - Florida route as part of their winter repositioning at the end of the Alaska season

Best six weeks of sailing the family has ever had.

I'm curious why you think trans-atlantic sailing is such an 'experience' when compared to coastal-pacific and trans-pacific sailing.

Hmm, ask me about my QE2 crossing in 11m seas one April, and that ship was designed for the weather.

Its not so much that a typical cruise ship can't do a transatlantic crossing, just that it could get pretty uncomfortable for the passengers. There are frequent repositioning cruises transatlantic, but they tend to follow a more southerly route and are slower. The Queen Mary 2 is the only ship today designed to cross the North Atlantic with any speed.

[Spikester]

I lucked out this time. My usual trip to Spain connects via Heathrow or Schiphol. This trip includes a stopover in Texas on the return leg, so I flew YVR-DFW-MAD on Thursday instead, and thus completed my journey without incident.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Spikester

I lucked out this time. My usual trip to Spain connects via Heathrow or Schiphol. This trip includes a stopover in Texas on the return leg, so I flew YVR-DFW-MAD on Thursday instead, and thus completed my journey without incident.

You are lucky. The eruption shows no sign of slowing down, and the crystalline dust particles are spreading further and further. If it continues unabated for more than two or three weeks, it will wreak havoc on much of the world's aviation patterns; at least anything over the North Atlantic and Europe, and that includes routes like LHR > JFK !!

We're in for an experience here, it seems.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Hmm, ask me about my QE2 crossing in 11m seas one April, and that ship was designed for the weather.

Its not so much that a typical cruise ship can't do a transatlantic crossing, just that it could get pretty uncomfortable for the passengers. There are frequent repositioning cruises transatlantic, but they tend to follow a more southerly route and are slower. The Queen Mary 2 is the only ship today designed to cross the North Atlantic with any speed.

I've always heard to avoid a repositioning cruise on the boats coming up from Mexico / California to Vancouver in the spring to start the Alaska runs, because they can be caught in some really horrid coastal weather while the seasons are changing.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

You are lucky. The eruption shows no sign of slowing down, and the crystalline dust particles are spreading further and further. If it continues unabated for more than two or three weeks, it will wreak havoc on much of the world's aviation patterns; at least anything over the North Atlantic and Europe, and that includes routes like LHR > JFK !!

We're in for an experience here, it seems.

I saw a news bit on BBC that said the last time this volcano was so active, it lasted for 2 1/2 years.
And it triggered a nearby volcano to start belching too.

The same news piece said its getting belched high enough to get into the jetstream, and the particles are so small they can stay aloft for weeks. This is the same jetstream that loops over Russia, China and North America.

If you start seeing Bright Red and Brilliant Pink sunsets, you are seeing the only pleasant effect of the ash particles that are nearby.

[mezzanine]

^^All further evidence of a need of Emirates flights to YVR. We cannot access any of the european hubs, but flights to Dubai are still ongoing from north america.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

^^All further evidence of a need of Emirates flights to YVR. We cannot access any of the european hubs, but flights to Dubai are still ongoing from north america.

I was just thinking the very same thing!! Precisely. Thank you for that!!

[SpongeG]

just a small amount of ash can be bad - it happenned to a british airways fight in the 80's when a volcano erupted in indonesia - all 4 engines went out