Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by officedweller

WRT Station Square I recall talk on the forum about demolishing the parkade and building a new store for Save-on-Foods on the parkade site (i.e. streetfront, maybe with underground parking?) and then redeveloping the old Save-on-Foods side of the project.
The site is also constrained because MacKay St. (I think that's the name) cuts through the site to the Metropolis parkade entrance.

I believe that's Kingsborough, adjacent to Mackay.

[SpikePhanta]

Well can't they maybe connect Metrotown's underground parkade to a future Save-on underground lot?

Also possibly when redeveloping StationSquare to connect it to metrotown they can use the old TGIF area?

Like somehow that will be the connector.

[ozonemania]

As a follow up to the online survey that many of us posted to a while ago, I just got this Email from City Planning:

RE: Revised Rapid Transit Principles for the Broadway Corridor and the UBC Line Rapid Transit Study

The above-noted Policy Report dated April 12, 2010, will be considered by Vancouver City Council’s Standing Committee on Planning and Environment at its meeting on:

DATE: Thursday, April 22, 2010
TIME: 2:00 pm
PLACE: Council Chamber
Third Floor, City Hall

The agenda for the meeting and the relevant report can be viewed at: vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/councilmeetings/meeting_schedule.cfm no later than the Friday preceding the meeting. Hard copies will also be available upon request at that time.

If you wish further information on this matter, please contact Ronda Howard at 604.873.7215. If you wish to address the Standing Committee, please call me at 604.871.6399, by 1:00 pm on Wednesday, April 21, 2010. Please note speakers are requested to limit their comments to no longer than five minutes.

For your information, all meetings of Council are webcast and can be viewed at: vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/mayorcouncil/councilmeetings/video.htm. The minutes for this meeting can be viewed at: vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/councilmeetings/meeting_schedule.cfm approximately two days following the meeting. Hard copies of the minutes are available upon request.


Yours truly,

Terri Burke
Meeting Coordinator

I am seriously considering going to this meeting, if not to just check it out. Is anyone else? Speaking perhaps?

Kinda cool, I did not realize that Council webcast these meetings, doh!

[trofirhen]

The results of the meeting, and the conclusions drawn (if any) will make for some very interesting posts.

[nname]

The consultation site: http://www.translink.ca/en/Get-Involved/Be-Part-of-the-Plan.aspx

Six options proposed:

1. BRT Commercial - UBC
2A. LRT Commercial - UBC via Broadway
2B. LRT Commercial - UBC via VCC
3A. Option 2A + LRT Main to UBC using Olympic Line
3B. Option 2B + LRT Main to UBC using Olympic Line
4A. SkyTrain Commercial - UBC via Broadway
4B. SkyTrain VCC - UBC
5. SkyTrain VCC - Arbutus + LRT Main - UBC using Olympic Line
6. Improve bus service

I would profer option 4B.. but I guess I can live with option 5 since I hardly ever go west of Granville anyways

And options 2B, 3B, and 4A would probably win the most stupid option award

[squeezied]

yea some of these options are just plain stupid

[jlousa]

The meeting won't be too exciting, as the excitement was at the initial meeting, this one is just to reword some of the principle guidelines to be followed, nothing is really changing from what has already been passed by council. If anyone cares to read the actual document I've attached a link. To me it's pretty clear what solution is preferred but I'll let everyone read it for themselves and decide.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20100422/documents/penv3.pdf

[spitkicker08]

Translink has updated their Be Part of the Plan website and are evaluating 6 different options for the corridor. Some of their options incorporate a pseudo-Olympic Line.

http://www.translink.ca/en/Get-Involved/Be-Part-of-the-Plan.aspx

I personally like the full Skytrain line or the combination option that has Skytrain until Arbutus and an LRT from Main Street - Science World along the Olympic line ROW connecting to the Arbutus ROW and then down Broadway until UBC. Its a good start to getting the full stretch of the Arbutus ROW being used in the future.

[Locked In]

Is this the first time Translink has given consideration to doing LRT on the downtown streetcar route? Seems promising if it's even on the table.

Anyways, I'd settle for the Combination Alternative, though it would be nice it if it was part of a phased approach to grade-separated rail all the way to UBC.


Source: Translink

[Gordon]

Thanks for the new Info.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by nname

I would profer option 4B.. but I guess I can live with option 5 since I hardly ever go west of Granville anyways

I always go as far as Arbutus but no further west
I have some feeling that option 5 will be the final product.

Time to fill yet another Questionnaire:
http://www.translink.ca/en/Get-Involved/Be-Part-of-the-Plan/UBC-Line-Questionnaire.aspx

[usog]

Originally Posted by Locked In

Is this the first time Translink has given consideration to doing LRT on the downtown streetcar route? Seems promising if it's even on the table.

Anyways, I'd settle for the Combination Alternative, though it would be nice it if it was part of a phased approach to grade-separated rail all the way to UBC.


Source: Translink

Hmm, well, that's pretty original. Haven't seen any proposal like that before. Crazy enough to work perhaps?

[SpikePhanta]

Hmm I like that proposal/idea

also maybe that leads to a potential arbutus ROW LRT?

[The_Henry_Man]

It has, and must be plan 4B, 'nuff said. All other choices are just plain stupid, serves no purpose to improve transit on the Broadway corridor, and it's a waste of money for the money of product it produces. No one wants to transfer at Commercial-Broadway Station (from both M and E-Lines) to go to UBC just because it's a different rail technology. Combined Skytrain (to Arbutus) and LRT from Main St-Science World to UBC is just as stupid, because it's even more retarded to transfer twice for UBC students coming in from the E-Line.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

Combined Skytrain (to Arbutus) and LRT from Main St-Science World to UBC is just as stupid, because it's even more retarded to transfer twice for UBC students coming in from the E-Line.

One-transfer option is actually provided. Just enjoy the slow scenic ride on tram from Main street! (how long it will take, my guess is 50 minutes)

[racc]

Originally Posted by usog

Hmm, well, that's pretty original. Haven't seen any proposal like that before. Crazy enough to work perhaps?

It is an interesting idea. I suspect the issue will be is that it will increase demand on the Commercial to Main segment of the Expo line that is already packed. As the LRT does not follow the shortest route from Commercial to Arbutus, the travel times to destinations west of Arbutus will likely be slower than they are today.

I expect this option would attract a lot of riders in the short term but won't perform that well in the long term relative to the SkyTrain all the way to UBC.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by CLC

One-transfer option is actually provided. Just enjoy the slow scenic ride on tram from Main street! (how long it will take, my guess is 50 minutes)

50min? No way. I and many others will continue to drive if that's the case. The current 99B takes around 45min from end to end. There is absolutely no improvement in travel times or reliability of the service.

I doubt any students would want a slow "scenic" ride, especially when it's midterm/finals time. They want a fast and efficient rapid transit link that can potentially just take 15-20 min from UBC to Commercial-Broadway on the M-Line, and a reliable system so that they won't be late for classes. And it's nothing "scenic" when it's fall/winter/spring, when it's raining at almost 80% of the time, and when it gets dark at 1630h.

LRT/streetcars in COV should and must be kept out of the scope of the UBC Line project. They're only suitable for commuting within COV. The only idea that I would accept is have the Olympic Line link up with Arbutus Skytrain station and then goes south on the Arbutus ROW towards kerrisdale and Marpole.

[Bureaucromancer]

What was the per km cost of the elevated portion of the Canada line? That combination option looks decent at first glance, but I wonder how much is really going to be saved given that it looks like you would build the entire tunneled portion of the Skytrain extension anyway. Especially if higher LRT operating costs are considered...

In any case, the idea of using this as a staged route toward Skytrain doesn't seem all that realistic to me. It would mean either building a fully grader separated route now and running LRVs on it for no particular reason, or (more likely) building something at grade that can be isolated later. The only realistic form I see for this is at grade median LRT with a ROW wide enough to be fenced later and have flyover/unders added at intersections. The problem is that I just can't see the community accepting Skytrain at grade in the median of Broadway with he full barrier effect that would have, and you would be left with LRT forever, however much sense it make from a technical standpoint. For that matter the community would probably be right, when elevated would be a better option for everyone...

Basically, before we commit to something like this I think we need to A) be SURE that it actually will save significant funds over Skytain all the way, and B) acknowledge that it is effectively a permanent solution. If we build this Skytrain to UBC is off the table.

Frankly my own preference is that this option is a very distant second choice for the corridor. Build Evergreen and Broadway to UBC, THEN start looking at LRT within the city proper. The resulting system would create a fully complete backbone of full heavy rapid transit for Vancouver which LRT could build on, without arbitrary mode breaks in corridors, or compromised quality of service in the really central routes.

[The_Henry_Man]

It looks like there's 2 parallel threads about the Broadway Millennium Line extension to UBC. Admins, can you please merge those two threads into one? Thanks!!

[mr.x]

Two words for that combo option: another transfer?


I do hope that all these consultations are just meant to entertain the NIMBY's and idiots out there...4B is so insanely logical and obvious.