Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

I wonder if part of the problem with federal funding is that the province is required to match the federal contributions. The statistics on the amount of money transferred to the city would have been a lot different if Halifax had of gone ahead with the Commonwealth Games (and it sounds like they might have won the international competition to host it). The Federal government had committed $400 million to it. If the provincial government hadn't pulled out and Commonwealth Games had gone ahead then Halifax might have been near the top in federal transfers.

[fenwick16]

I re-posted this from another thread that was posted January 15 2009 (Kelly set to deliver wish list): http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=163634. The part that caught my attention was that there is a price included for an outdoor stadium - $65 million dollars. A fairly nice stadium could be built for that price - the InfoCision Stadium in Akron, Ohio was built for $61.6 million USD (from 2008 - 2009, so these numbers are recent) and it is quite a nice stadium. I sometimes wonder if the HRM could just go to HNTB Architects ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HNTB ) and ask if they could buy the plans for this stadium. The only thing that I would prefer would be that the media tower could be partly or completely removed and have a roof over the sideline seats on both sides. I previously checked the dimensions of this stadium and I am reasonably sure that it would fit the DND site North of the Halifax Forum (this would have to be confirmed). I have been told that that site is actually just a scrap yard for unused military equipment (can someone confirm if this is true?). I wish someone from HRM would contact Defense Minister Peter MacKay about that site, he is a Nova Scotian and is interested in the CFL.

Kelly set to deliver wish list
'Shovel-ready' items include library, convention centre
By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Thu. Jan 15 - 5:14 AM
Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly and his cross-Canada counterparts will be saying "Show me the money" when they meet with two key federal cabinet ministers in Ottawa this morning.

The group known as Big City Mayors, representing 22 of Canada’s largest cities, will present a wish list of 1,000 infrastructure projects totalling $13 billion to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty and Transport Minister John Baird, who is responsible for infrastructure.

"These are shovel-ready projects," Mr. Kelly said Wednesday at city hall before boarding a plane for Ottawa.

This is the time to make a point, he said, with the federal budget coming on Jan. 27.

And Canada’s premiers will meet Friday, also in Ottawa, and the Big City Mayors will draft a letter to them as well.

"It’s important to do this now, when there is the opportunity to put a very clear message to the federal and provincial politicians," Mr. Kelly said.

"We’re putting out the clear message that we have projects, across the country, that would mean 156,000 jobs and affect 20 million people."

Halifax’s proposed projects alone total $1.2 billion, Mr. Kelly said.

"The list is extensive," he said, and includes big-ticket items like a convention centre ($150 million), outdoor stadium ($65 million), downtown library ($60 million) and four-rink ice complex ($35 million) as well as basic infrastructure upgrades and repairs.

While some of the larger items would be located in downtown Halifax, Mr. Kelly was quick to point out that the list includes projects for every corner of Halifax Regional Municipality.

"They are all spread out," he said.

The city faces significant pressure to keep its aging infrastructure safe and in good working condition, the mayor said.

"Our regional plan lays out HRM’s vision for the next 25 years, taking into consideration our existing infrastructure deficit, and works toward decreasing it," he said.

"With additional federal funding, some of HRM’s infrastructure projects could get started in 2009."

Many of the items have been on Halifax’s wish list for years but the list has been updated in recent weeks, Mr. Kelly said.

"This is part of the five-year program and we keep expanding it," he said.

The mayors expect the federal government to start chipping away at the requests by providing financing directly through the gasoline tax.

Mr. Kelly said that model has worked "very well" in Nova Scotia but more money is needed if projects are to get underway.

"We’ve done a great job in terms of focusing and detailing our needs over the years so the provincial and federal governments know where the needs are from coast to coast to coast," he said.

The Big City Mayors also plan to meet this morning with opposition leaders Jack Layton of the NDP and Michael Ignatieff of the Liberals.

( [email protected])

[Dylan Matthias]

Hello to all in this forum.

My name is Dylan Matthias (as you can see), and I'm a journalism student at the University of Kings' College in Halifax. I stumbled across this forum, as well as the www.halifaxstadium.ca website during some research, and decided to look into it a bit further for a story.

When I spoke to fenwick16 about the story, he suggested I post the finished online article on here, which I think is a good idea. It's currently in editing and hopefully I can have it up in the next week or two.

If you are interested, myself and another Halifax sports journalist (Bill McLean, see his blog at www.billmcleansports.blogspot.com) will be discussing the issues surrounding Halifax and getting a stadium on CKDU Sports tomorrow (Tuesday) at 10:30am Atlantic time (9:30am ET). It's 88.1FM, I think, and their website (with a listen-live link and archive) is at www.ckdu.ca.

Thanks,

Dylan Matthias

[fenwick16]

It is good to see that a stadium is still being talked about. I still keep hoping that someone in the municipal council will get the ball moving in the right direction.

[hfx_chris]

Excellent. I'll be tuning in!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Dylan Matthias

Hello to all in this forum.

My name is Dylan Matthias (as you can see), and I'm a journalism student at the University of Kings' College in Halifax. I stumbled across this forum, as well as the www.halifaxstadium.ca website during some research, and decided to look into it a bit further for a story.

When I spoke to fenwick16 about the story, he suggested I post the finished online article on here, which I think is a good idea. It's currently in editing and hopefully I can have it up in the next week or two.

If you are interested, myself and another Halifax sports journalist (Bill McLean, see his blog at www.billmcleansports.blogspot.com) will be discussing the issues surrounding Halifax and getting a stadium on CKDU Sports tomorrow (Tuesday) at 10:30am Atlantic time (9:30am ET). It's 88.1FM, I think, and their website (with a listen-live link and archive) is at www.ckdu.ca.

Thanks,

Dylan Matthias

Thanks for the link. I listened to the show, it was informative and I was glad that the opinions were unbiased. One thing to point out is that a stadium could be built in stages so the entire cost would not have to be incurred at one time.

I was shocked when Dylan Mattias quoted Councillor Blumenthal as saying that it would be 15 - 20 years before a stadium was constructed (please correct me if I quoted this incorrectly). In the picture below, when "The Future" was written on the board I felt elated - now I realize it means "The Future" Generation. I am starting to think that the only way we will see a stadium built is if a group of us starts up our own building fund and do all the work in raising the money and finding a site (maybe even running the stadium). I am half serious.





PS: How much would it cost to build just the lower sunken bowl of the InfoCision stadium below (the excavation wouldn't be that deep - probably only 20 feet or so). It would seat about 12,000 plus glass knoll seating in the end zones. Then temporary seats could be set up at ground level along the side lines and end zones to provide about 20,000 - 25,000. I would guess not much more than $20 million - $25 million with permanent washrooms and maybe less without. If it were set up in the Mainland Commons then maybe it could share the washrooms with the new Canada Games facility. There is a sunken site out there that was being considered for the Lacewood bus terminal - this might not even require much excavation.

source: http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics21/200/LZ/LZTEXJBYTJIMUAD.20090313153909.jpg

[someone123]

Blumenthal? I wouldn't necessarily take predictions from a guy who may not even know what year it is. He's usually out to lunch.

[fenwick16]

I don't have anything against Councillor Blumenthal. Maybe his opinion is a bit on the pessimistic side though.

[hfx_chris]

I enjoyed listening. One thing they mentioned, which I agree with, is that no matter what happens on the large municipal stadium front, Huskies Stadium at SMU is in desperate need of upgrades and repairs, and the grand stand/press box needs to be completely replaced. I've said it before and I'll say it again now, this is the starting point. It we could put in place brand new seating at SMU, capable of handling 15k permanent seats/benches, and expandable to 20-25k, that would at least put us on the same playing field (no pun intended) as Moncton. They would no longer hold the advantage over us, as far as "having a stadium" goes. If Halifax could then attract another Touchdown Atlantic game(s), it would be an excellent opportunity to showcase both the sport in the city, and the city to the league.

I liked that they mentioned other uses too, in addition to football - including concerts, open-air hockey games in the winter, and of course soccer. I forget the name of the league, but I guess they're starting to pick up steam in Canada, and as most of us probably know soccer is pretty big around here - at least judging by the number of people who have kids in soccer, and how often we see the fields in use.

Speaking of, I saw the new football field at Dartmouth Crossing in use last night for the first time ever. The field looked great under the lights, and even though I was driving by quickly there appeared to be quite a few people in the stands. I wonder how many that seats... plenty of room for additional stands to be placed as well. We shouldn't ignore this field as a viable alternative to Huskies'.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

I liked that they mentioned other uses too, in addition to football - including concerts, open-air hockey games in the winter, and of course soccer. I forget the name of the league, but I guess they're starting to pick up steam in Canada, and as most of us probably know soccer is pretty big around here - at least judging by the number of people who have kids in soccer, and how often we see the fields in use.

If the seats along one sideline are always temporary and movable, it could also be used for large baseball tournaments

Speaking of, I saw the new football field at Dartmouth Crossing in use last night for the first time ever. The field looked great under the lights, and even though I was driving by quickly there appeared to be quite a few people in the stands. I wonder how many that seats... plenty of room for additional stands to be placed as well. We shouldn't ignore this field as a viable alternative to Huskies'.

Does anyone have more information on this stadium? Is there room for expansion? Is it owned by the city? Would the Dartmouth Crossings developers and business owners be interested in contributing some money to expansion. If owned by the HRM, they could set up a building fund that individuals could also contribute to. It wouldn't cost that much to have 10,000 permanent seats and washrooms along one sideline, this could then also be the first-base line for baseball games (maybe the Blue Jays would play yearly exhibition games there). Seats in the end-zone would be the third baseline and the movable temporary seats (other sideline for football) could be moved to the third baseline and outfield to convert to baseball.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

I liked that they mentioned other uses too, in addition to football - including concerts, open-air hockey games in the winter, and of course soccer.

They are thinking of other uses for the Moncton Stadium as well..........certainly medium sized concerts, varsity sports and possibly a new AUAA football team for U de M. It could also become a permanent home for the provincial high school football championships.

You mentioned outdoor hockey as well.........here in Moncton, that idea has already been bandied about. There is a "challenge cup" every year between the Moncton Wildcats and the Saint John Sea Dogs. An annual "New Year's outdoors game" at the new stadium has been suggested.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Does anyone have more information on this stadium? Is there room for expansion? Is it owned by the city? Would the Dartmouth Crossings developers and business owners be interested in contributing some money to expansion. If owned by the HRM, they could set up a building fund that individuals could also contribute to. It wouldn't cost that much to have 10,000 permanent seats and washrooms along one sideline, this could then also be the first-base line for baseball games (maybe the Blue Jays would play yearly exhibition games there). Seats in the end-zone would be the third baseline and the movable temporary seats (other sideline for football) could be moved to the third baseline and outfield to convert to baseball.

Here is a link to google street view of the field in question. Turf field. Expensive to use. That is about all I know about it.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=turf+...5EBv4M8aFb_G31ahuQ&cbp=12,334.19,,0,4.36

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by planarchy

Here is a link to google street view of the field in question. Turf field. Expensive to use. That is about all I know about it.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=turf+...5EBv4M8aFb_G31ahuQ&cbp=12,334.19,,0,4.36

Thanks for the link. There is lots of room for now.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Thanks for the link. There is lots of room for now.

There is certainly lots of room around here, but just to note - I think that a substantial chunk my be protected wetlands, in addition a buffer zone along the lake edges.

[hfx_chris]

On its' western side it's pretty close to the soccer field, so I don't think there's that much room for expansion on that side - and on the other side you've got John Savage Drive. You could fit a larger stand on that side, but you would be quite limited to smaller stands on the western side next to the soccer field.

The fields are definitely HRM-owned; they have large HRM logos in the end zones, but I have no idea what they charge.

[hfx_chris]

I think I found it. Looks like $78 to rent the field:

http://www.halifax.ca/rec/documents/2010allweatherfeetable.pdf

[joeyedm]

15-20 years to get a stadium built. unfortunatly - moncton will have its cfl team by then, thousands will be flocking to moncton every season to watch the games, halifax will be on the outside looking in as usual.

[Dylan Matthias]

Hello again, and thanks for the feedback. It's much appreciated.

As perhaps you could tell, my main specialty is soccer reporting, so that's why I included the soccer stuff in there. I've enjoyed the football games I've seen, but I can't say I really know the sport well. The name of the soccer league including Vancouver, Montreal, Edmonton and probably Ottawa (eventually) is USSF Division 2. It's currently re-making itself and it'll likely end up being called the North American Soccer League.

I have been to the stadium in Dartmouth Crossing. Accessing it is not easy (at least by bus) and currently it seats very few people. I think I have bit on it in the website, but I'm not sure. I'll add one if not.

The site will hopefully be through editing on Monday, and I'll make any changes and post it shortly thereafter.

Thanks,
Dylan Matthias

[fenwick16]

I fear that the idea of a Halifax area stadium could be forgotten for another 10 - 15 years. The more time goes by, the more that I think that the best solution is the lower bowl of a sunken bowl stadium seating about 12,000 - 14,000 in a horseshoe configuration. I have to admit that my estimates of the cost are more of a guess than an actual estimate but I guess that just the lower bowl (forget about the upper tiers shown in the images below) would be around $20 million - whether or not washrooms could also be built for this price, well I don't know. The images below are of the Hamilton Pan-Am Stadium proposal and the Goodman Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodman_Stadium).

By building the upper tiers at a later date (possibly one side at a time) it could then be expanded in the future to 25,000 - 30,000 with all amenities. I have serious doubts about the private investor plans to build a stadium based on everything that I have been reading in the news (basically nothing regarding a stadium, or indications that it could be 15 - 20 years). It might be necessary to set up our own building fund, I have spoken to one person who has done this in the past so I could get some advice. It would have to be set up with well known Nova Scotia directors so that people would trust that the money would be used honestly and go towards a stadium.

Hamilton Pan-Am Stadium (source: username: steeltown http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=175400&page=23 )


Goodman Stadium (source: http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pic...tes/pennsylvania/bethlehem_goodman.shtml )

[halifaxboyns]

I was thinking (again) about this stadium discussion and I wonder if the big parcel of land behind King's Wharf might work for a stadium? When I say 'big piece' I'm talking about all the in industrial/heavy commercial land to the west (I think it's west) of the canal and just above the CNR ROW.

It looks like it's all really old, run down industrial/commercial and if the slips are gone, it may not been needed anymore - although it also would be a great candidate for 'King's Wharf Phase 2' or maybe 'Queens Wharf'?

But if you closed down Canal Street at Mill Lane, you'd have a pretty big square parcel there - or even an L shaped one if you took all the land up to Portland Street.

Would be a great location in terms of Transit access (since its a short walk to the Ferry Terminal and Alderney Bus Terminal) and would add to the redevelopment of the Dartmouth side. The other idea I had was somehow build it above the CNR rail tracks on the empty parking lot and perhaps extending over the harbour slightly (near Alderney Gate). The only problem is the engineering of actually having the structure but elevated above the rail - plus I wonder if it could even happen with the viewplanes there. Certainly the Canal Street location would work and no view plane problems, but with so little land in DT Dartmouth unfettered by viewplanes, would this be worth it?