Ottawa intercity bus terminal relocation

[blackjagger]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

new website from the owner of the current terminal
http://keepitdowntownottawa.com/

I really like his "Modern" recladding of the Bus Station... I hate that this owner is trying to be "of the people" by keeping the bus station where it is when the truth is he bought a property that he knew was going to need major renewal and has been trying to put it off as long as possible.

Cheers,
Josh

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by blackjagger

I really like his "Modern" recladding of the Bus Station... I hate that this owner is trying to be "of the people" by keeping the bus station where it is when the truth is he bought a property that he knew was going to need major renewal and has been trying to put it off as long as possible.

Cheers,
Josh

This is a very interesting quote from the website:

"It seems that the owner of the bus terminal was in the midst of negotiating a new long term 20-year deal with Greyhound when the company suddenly broke off communications."

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by blackjagger

I really like his "Modern" recladding of the Bus Station... I hate that this owner is trying to be "of the people" by keeping the bus station where it is when the truth is he bought a property that he knew was going to need major renewal and has been trying to put it off as long as possible.

Cheers,
Josh

I was about to comment on the same thing. I laughed when I read the following quote, which was beside his renders:

The renderings pictured in this post, which were completed last year, illustrate how the current Catherine Street station would be improved to reflect a more modern look and feel.

Replacing ugly brown brick with some sort of ugly blue siding is not something to be proud of.

Greyhound must be paying great rent for the owner of the property to be trying so hard to keep them, rather than selling the land for redevelopment at what I would assume would be a decent profit.

Edit: Here's the render. Beautiful, ain't it?

[c_speed3108]

Seems the airport too wants a crack at hosting a bus/train terminal...

Runway success

Modest leader takes Ottawa's airport from a liability to Company of the Year

By Mark Sutcliffe, Ottawa Citizen December 17, 2010 7:25 AM


Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Runway+success/3991009/story.html#ixzz18NDFa6O5

Not so long ago, it would have been impossible to think of the Ottawa airport as a business. Now, it's Ottawa's Company of the Year. When the Ottawa International Airport Authority was honoured by the Ottawa Chamber of Commerce at last month's Business Achievement Awards, it marked the complete transformation of the facility from a liability to an asset for the community.

A big part of the airport's success is the leadership of Paul Benoit, the president of the organization, who refused an individual nomination as business person of the year because he wanted the entire airport team to be recognized.

"The easiest person to replace is the orchestra leader," says Benoit. "This is recognition for what a whole bunch of people have done. This team is as good as or better than any airport in the country."

Since the opening of the new terminal in 2003, which catapulted Ottawa's airport from the dark ages into the modern era, Benoit and his team of 160 employees have delivered one successful capital project after another, almost always early and under budget.

"To do that once or twice, you can be lucky," says Benoit. "If you've been able to do it 10 or 12 times, you've got great people."

And for those people who insist the private sector can't deliver services as efficiently and effectively as government, consider this: the federal government used to operate all of Canada's airports at a cost, according to Benoit, of some $400 million per year. Now the government makes $300 million in rent from the Ottawa airport and its counterparts across the country.

And over the last 15 years, some $6 billion has been invested in capital improvements, without any level of government chipping in.

"This didn't cost taxpayers a dime," says Benoit, pointing to the terminal around him.

Benoit has led the airport since it was privatized by the federal government in 1997. He has two years left on his contract, after which he says it will be time for a change. He marked a major milestone this month when he took a week's holiday with a complete shutdown in communication with the office.

And for those people who insist the private sector can't deliver services as efficiently and effectively as government (hello, health care system), consider this: the federal government used to operate all of Canada's airports at a cost, according to Benoit, of some $400 million per year. Now the government makes $300 million in rent from the Ottawa airport and its counterparts across the country.

And over the last 15 years, some $6 billion has been invested in capital improvements, without any level of government chipping in.

"This didn't cost taxpayers a dime," says Benoit, pointing to the terminal around him.

Benoit has led the airport since it was privatized by the federal government in 1997. He has two years left on his contract, after which he says it will be time for a change. He marked a major milestone this month when he took a week's holiday with a complete shutdown in communication with the office.

"My BlackBerry was cut off," he says. "This was a major disconnect."

The next milestone for the airport is the completion of a huge expansion for the parking garage. Benoit says the authority is also looking at expanding the customs area, and is working with major airlines to add a few more direct flights from the city, including another European destination, the U.S. west coast and the Asian market.

And Benoit's team is already starting to brainstorm about how the airport property can move beyond just airplanes to become the major transportation hub for the city.

Benoit says one day, buses, trains, light rail and even high-speed intercity rail could all stop at the airport.

"We shouldn't be looking at different modes of transportation as competition," he says.

"We should be looking at each other as complementary. In a perfect world, you'd have everything in one place."

As one example, Benoit points to a family in Kingston taking an international flight from Ottawa. He says they could check in at the Kingston bus terminal, including having their bags tagged, then board a bus for Ottawa that stops at the airport en route.

"If you asked me, 'What do you want for Christmas, Paul?' " he says, "it would be to bring everybody together. We need a much stronger, unified voice for transportation in Ottawa.

"That's still a long way off," he cautions. "But the thoughts are there and we're starting to put them on paper."

For years, there have been hints at building a high-speed rail system between Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal. Given the enormous level of investment required, it seems unlikely to happen soon, but if it does, Benoit would want to see the terminal on the airport property.

"It's an opportunity, but it would also be a major threat," he says. "If it comes here, I'd definitely want to see it at the airport."

Beyond his team, Benoit credits the community and the local economy for the airport's growth.

"We've been very lucky because of the Ottawa market," he says. "It's a stable market and as a result we have the highest growth rate of any major airport in Canada. That's not us doing the job, it's the area."

Still, no matter how much credit he gives to his team and the community, it's hard to imagine Ottawa's airport being so successful without Benoit's guidance over the last 13 years.

And it's just as hard to imagine this orchestra one day without its current leader.
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen


Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Runway+success/3991009/story.html#ixzz18ND6SwQe

[Kitchissippi]

I was in Shanghai a couple of months ago and the Hongqiao Transport Hub in the west side of the city is absolutely amazing: Airport, High Speed Rail, Intercity Bus, Metro (5 lines), and future Maglev station all in one spot. I took the HSR to Beijing, and the experience was like a scene from a futuristic movie.



This is the HSR station portion of the complex, the box like structures along the sides are the gates with escalators leading to the tracks:




With our airport in the middle of the Greenbelt, it would be easy to run elevated HSR tracks through without too much impact. I think a YYZ-YOW-YUL is the most feasible route for HSR. Road access for buses could be done through a future E-W southern BRT route that runs from the 417 to the 416

[lrt's friend]

This demonstrates how North America is not positioning itself for the future economy

[adam-machiavelli]

This demonstrates how North America is not preparing for a low carbon society.

[Dado]

We are so far behind we haven't even done a pre-planning study (never mind a planning study and an environmental assessment) on where within the city of Ottawa HSR should go.

Assuming that HSR does go to the airport, where does it go from there? Into downtown Ottawa? If so, by what route? O-Train or the Rideau Canal or both (presumably through a[nother] tunnel)? If not, will it interchange with the transit system at places like Heron and Hurdman, or just at the main VIA station, or will it head east out of the airport on the most direct route to Montreal, relying instead on the airport's transit connections (whatever they may be) to get passengers elsewhere in the city?

In the other direction, where does it go? Will HSR go via Kingston or Peterborough to Toronto? Should it go through Kanata first? Should there be just one main station and no others, or is it worth having a few stations? Is the VIA line through Barrhaven suitable for HSR or will Barrhaven have to be avoided altogether? If we have to bypass it to the south, are we going to let Barrhaven and Manotick merge together?

Clearly, there are plenty of issues to consider. I don't have answers to most of them - these are just issues that a cursory examination brings up but their answers could impact one another and dramatically affect how HSR is incorporated into the urban fabric (such as it is) of Ottawa.


HSR has been talked about off-and-on for a few decades now - one might have thought that we would at least have put some thought into where within the city it might go so as to reserve corridors for it and plan for future stations. In the last election, O'Brien talked about studying a ring road but way more important is studying where HSR will go.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This demonstrates how North America is not positioning itself for the future economy

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

This demonstrates how North America is not preparing for a low carbon society.

This demonstrates that North America just sucks in general. It's like we're afraid to spend money.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

This demonstrates that North America just sucks in general. It's like we're afraid to spend money.

More like we're broke, no?

[adam-machiavelli]

We're not broke...yet. Governments are afraid to accumulate more debt (but see no problem with individuals taking on extremely high levels of debt to cover their financially and ecologically unsustainable lifestyles).

[Uhuniau]

We don't have to worry about where to put HSR in Ottawa, because the risk of HSR anywhere in eastern Canada is already near zero, and Ottawa, being a clueless hick town, will get left out of any such project anyway, which will run across Canada from Montreal to Toronto.

[Dundas]

We are gas and diesel hungry, if it runs on electricity forget about it.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

We're not broke...yet. Governments are afraid to accumulate more debt (but see no problem with individuals taking on extremely high levels of debt to cover their financially and ecologically unsustainable lifestyles).

Sorry, government understands very well that it is broke. Stay tuned and we can speak again in a year or so.....

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

More like we're broke, no?

How are we broke? We're one of a handful of nations that fared far better than the rest during the recession AND Canadian banks and companies are starting to buy up other banks and companies. Our governments just have no vision.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

We don't have to worry about where to put HSR in Ottawa, because the risk of HSR anywhere in eastern Canada is already near zero, and Ottawa, being a clueless hick town, will get left out of any such project anyway, which will run across Canada from Montreal to Toronto.

I sincerely hope you're wrong, but with this town, you're probably right...

[Kitchissippi]

I think an airport-to-airport high speed rail line is very much feasible between Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto and the economics are even there for it to make money. There is also enough corporate wealth for the private sector do it on its own but the problem with our free capitalism sometimes is there are competing forces that are very territorial of their current investments. Investors would rather throw their money into a crowded competitive market (ie., setting up a new airline like Porter) than risk it on a potential game changer like HSR

China's socialized capitalism is working well for them at the moment, allowing them to channel vast amounts of money toward what they perceive is the greater common good, a bit like Canada was from the mid-50's to 70's, only more awesome in scale. I am not at all envious of China as they have a whole set of problems that we don't have, but it is admirable how much they are investing in public infrastructure. While we in the West are slagging them for environmental atrocities, they are actually actively doing something about it and are poised to leapfrog us in that aspect. If you want to witness urban development happening in a Haussmannesque scale, go visit any large Chinese city — they are laying down wide boulevards with subways underneath and bike lanes as wide as car lanes. If the air clears after they phase out their coal burning plants, Beijing and Shanghai can turn out to be choice places to live.

Getting slightly back to topic, the long distance bus stations in China are almost always next or close to the train stations. I noticed that even the rickety buses had smart card readers, the kind you just tap a card on. In large cities, even the taxis are an integral part of the transit system so they take payment from the same pre-loaded cards, allowing you to transfer between transportation modes with relative ease.

At the risk of derailing the thread again, here are some more transport-related images I took in China:

interior of a typical regional bus. Nothing spectacular, but it shows they’ve had automated stop announcements for a while both audio and visual display.


interior of the high speed trains. I had a nice tidy first class bunk for the 1000+ km journey, ticket price, about $100.




China is overtaking Europe in the length of high speed tracks. All over the countryside, I saw hundreds of kilometres of elevated track being constructed




The first commercial maglev line in the world, connecting the international airport in the east of the city to downtown Shanghai, eventually to continue on to the domestic airport at Hongqiao which I mentioned in the previous post. Too bad I only had my cheap video camera on hand during the ride and it did not focus on the LED speed display clearly. It hit a top speed of over 430 kph, and covered the 30km distance in 8 minutes. The ride is smooth accompanied by a hum oozing with power. The 30km line was constructed (with cheap Chinese labour) for a surprising cost of US1.33 billion, less than our LRT project! I imagine a similar train could do Ottawa-Montreal in less than 30 minutes.


• Video Link

[Dado]

I've created a new thread for HSR-related discussions:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=187432

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

This demonstrates that North America just sucks in general. It's like we're afraid to spend money.

Just afraid to spend money on visionary public projects. Giving public money to corporate friends is perfectly OK in North America.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

But we could have a state-of-the-art and classy terminal in the heart of downtown. Am I seriously the only one who has thought that an LRT station under the Government Conference Centre (old train station) could rather easily tie into a bus terminal that could be adjoined to said station, thereby carrying busloads of people along the canal right into downtown?

Quite possibly you are... there's not a lot of space in the area for a coach terminal.

Even if that were somehow impossible, there are plenty of sites around downtown that could work, or even in places like LeBreton Flats. Hell, we could even pull a NYC and stick the bus terminal underneath a city block occupied by business towers. We shouldn't just keep sticking stuff in the suburbs simply because there is more space and it's cheaper; we should find innovative and creative solutions that keep services in the core.

Perhaps the City could use its Section 37 powers to leverage something out of the rezoning of the current coach terminal to finance something like this.

Perhaps it is not "way out" from the core, but it is still away from the core nonetheless. Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, New York, Quebec, Chicago, Boston, etc. ALL have their bus terminals downtown and have either renovated existing terminals or built new ones in an urban location. The VIA station is still far from being urban.

The VIA station site is definitely a world of the second best compared to a truly downtown location. If we could return the rail station to downtown, I would agree that integrating a coach terminal into it if at all possible would be ideal. The difficulty is just where to put such a facility.

[KHOOLE]

Looking at Kitchissippi’s pictures of Dec 17th and 19th 2010 and considering what has already been said recently on the 265 Catherine (greyhound terminal) thread, why can’t we have a LRT coming from Kanata down Corkstown Rd to Carling and then become elevated through centretown from the O-Train in Little Italy to the train/bus station hub and then at grade to Orleans via the 417 and 174 roads? The O-Train would start in Gatineau and end at the airport.

Later on, the line could link Kanata to the airport via Barrhaven and Orleans could link with the Gatineau Rapibus by means of a bridge over the Ottawa at Cumberland (sort of a lob-sided figure 8).

A downtown train/bus station would be ideal but that will never happen. Better to plan with what we have and make the best of it. By the end of this century, with the infills and high-rises, the present train station area will be considered as being downtown anyway.

I would improve the present Transitway by making it start at the CHEO/Ottawa Hospital General Campus or even further south and make it connect with the rest of the transportation stuff (including cars off the 417 and parking garages) at the train/bus station. The Transitway would cross downtown by means of cut and cover tunnels on Slater and Albert streets. The buses would go below grade in one-lane enter/exit entrances between Elgin and Metcalfe and do the same more naturally out of Nanny-Goat Hill to the Flats area. Lincoln Fields would connect the Transitway with the east-west LRT. St.Laurent and Blair Rd would be part of the east-west LRT and not part of the Transitway.

The DOTT project, apart from being very expensive, is just replacing an established and successful line and would probably not increase passenger volume or revenues in any considerable amounts.
An east-west LRT line will potentially increase the number of public transportation passengers and decrease vehicle traffic and ever present need for more costly roads.

To plan and create an intermodal hub of this kind at the present train station (Greber’s idea) while there is still open space to do such a venture makes a lot more sense to me than to build an expensive tunnel 10 storeys below ground that will potentially be useful only during downtown working hours 5 days a week. With little use in the evening and being so close to Parliament Hill would make the tunnel vulnerable to undesirable activities and would require costly policing.

The DOTT will not provide transportation to hospitals, medical centres, universities, high schools, Algonquin College, Cité Collégiale, theatres, movies, restaurants, arenas, football and soccer fields, churches, museums, shopping centres, dentists, bars, ethnic clubs and restaurants, the kids in the burbs and just going somewhere for something to do as people do in much larger cities.

A combined train and bus station servicing Ontario and Quebec and most of Eastern Canada and the USA and giving access to many different modes of transportation throughout the entire Ottawa/Gatineau area, while not perfect, is very likely a much better solution to the present traffic congestion on our roads. Considering that Gatineau no longer has a train station, we would think that the planners of both cities and the NCC should be getting together to plan transportation in our area for the next 100 years.