AUSTIN | Projects & Construction II

[OU812]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Definitely. While it is nice to see those buildings making a skyline, it's just sprawl. I rode around in San Antonio a few years ago around some of the clusters of buildings near Loop 410, and it's just awful sprawl. Horrible sidewalks, really narrow, not level and broken. High speed limits. Basically off limits to pedestrians or people on bikes. And anyway, the buildings around there were only around 150 to 200 feet max. Normally, I would ride all over an area to explore it, but I didn't feel safe doing that there. Crime wise the area was fine, but I just didn't want to get run over.

i actually like all those mid rises on 410. but that's just me. yeah it's not necesarily pedestrian friendly but it wasn't designed to be- just companies setting up shop because of easy freeway access (and perhaps close proximity to the airport). for some reason austin's office market has never really been hot the way san antonio, dallas, or houston has/is. again, i think it's austin's heavy zoning rules, neighborhood opposition, and probably it's substandard freeway network. i guess in a way, the hippies of the 60s/70s prevailed but voting down massive freeway initiatives- don't build it, they won't come.

[StoOgE]

Originally Posted by OU812

i actually like all those mid rises on 410. but that's just me. yeah it's not necesarily pedestrian friendly but it wasn't designed to be- just companies setting up shop because of easy freeway access (and perhaps close proximity to the airport). for some reason austin's office market has never really been hot the way san antonio, dallas, or houston has/is. again, i think it's austin's heavy zoning rules, neighborhood opposition, and probably it's substandard freeway network. i guess in a way, the hippies of the 60s/70s prevailed but voting down massive freeway initiatives- don't build it, they won't come.

Huh?

Have you driven down 183 or 360? They are both littered with suburban office buildings. Ben White East of 35 is covered in office parks.. and then there is roundrock which seems to be about half corporate office parks.

[nixcity]

I sure do hope that Seaholm is starting but I believe for it to officially be under contsruction we'd have to see some pilings going in. It has been enlightening to me over the years to watch and learn the construction process and find it quite interesting how some projects announce every little move they make while others get under way without so much as a peep.

[hookem]

I wonder if the activity over at Seaholm could be related to the Pfluger bridge extension? They are both city-owned projects in close proximity, maybe they just need some fill dirt for the bridge landing?

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by OU812

for some reason austin's office market has never really been hot the way san antonio, dallas, or houston has/is. again, i think it's austin's heavy zoning rules, neighborhood opposition, and probably it's substandard freeway network. i guess in a way, the hippies of the 60s/70s prevailed but voting down massive freeway initiatives- don't build it, they won't come.

I'll agree with you about Houston and Dallas, at least size wise, they're much more important than Austin is. But I wouldn't exactly call Dallas' office market healthy. Check the thread in the Texas forum that talks about Elm Place, a 625 foot, 50-story office building that is completely vacant. It's probably one of the tallest (the tallest?) vacant office building in the country. Houston is definitely healthy, but it has a hugely diverse economy in a way the others can only hope for. And I don't think San Antonio's office market is even on par with Austin's. We out number them with the number of major office buildings in downtown. San Antonio only had two or three sizable office buildings built during the 80s - at least in downtown. Their sub-markets grew a good bit during that time, but now look at downtown. San Antonio hasn't seen a single office building over 200 feet in downtown in 21 years. Of course, we've only had two in Austin during that time, but we had more throughout the 80s than they did. I think the lack of suburban office markets has been a big boost for Austin's downtown. Suburban space still outnumbers downtown space in Austin, but not by as much as the other Texas cities. In Houston for example, the Texas Medical Center has more office space than all of downtown Fort Worth does!

I'm not opposed to sub-markets, just suburban sub-markets. Create a walkable area with office space and everything else, fine, but don't make it into a no man's land.

By the way, I believe that 183 is our best bet for seeing large scale suburban office space. I know there's plenty there now, but I'm talking buildings of double the height of what's there now. So instead of 100 to 150 feet, it would be 200 and 300 foot buildings. 2nd only to I-35, I believe 183 is our most major highway. I would also expect Ben White/71 to develop more vertically eventually with the airport on 71. Also the industrial zones just south and north of Ben White will probably be redeveloped eventually. It would be nice if when that happens it was well planned development, and not just sloppy suburban stucco hotels and bland office parks. I doubt many people would even complain about it, because that area is pretty well insulated on all sides from residential areas.

[car2004]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

I'll agree with you about Houston and Dallas, at least size wise, they're much more important than Austin is. But I wouldn't exactly call Dallas' office market healthy. Check the thread in the Texas forum that talks about Elm Place, a 625 foot, 50-story office building that is completely vacant. It's probably one of the tallest (the tallest?) vacant office building in the country. Houston is definitely healthy, but it has a hugely diverse economy in a way the others can only hope for. And I don't think San Antonio's office market is even on par with Austin's. We out number them with the number of major office buildings in downtown. San Antonio only had two or three sizable office buildings built during the 80s - at least in downtown. Their sub-markets grew a good bit during that time, but now look at downtown. San Antonio hasn't seen a single office building over 200 feet in downtown in 21 years. Of course, we've only had two in Austin during that time, but we had more throughout the 80s than they did. I think the lack of suburban office markets has been a big boost for Austin's downtown. Suburban space still outnumbers downtown space in Austin, but not by as much as the other Texas cities. In Houston for example, the Texas Medical Center has more office space than all of downtown Fort Worth does!

I'm not opposed to sub-markets, just suburban sub-markets. Create a walkable area with office space and everything else, fine, but don't make it into a no man's land.

By the way, I believe that 183 is our best bet for seeing large scale suburban office space. I know there's plenty there now, but I'm talking buildings of double the height of what's there now. So instead of 100 to 150 feet, it would be 200 and 300 foot buildings. 2nd only to I-35, I believe 183 is our most major highway. I would also expect Ben White/71 to develop more vertically eventually with the airport on 71. Also the industrial zones just south and north of Ben White will probably be redeveloped eventually. It would be nice if when that happens it was well planned development, and not just sloppy suburban stucco hotels and bland office parks. I doubt many people would even complain about it, because that area is pretty well insulated on all sides from residential areas.

Agree!

[car2004]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

Huh?

Have you driven down 183 or 360? They are both littered with suburban office buildings. Ben White East of 35 is covered in office parks.. and then there is roundrock which seems to be about half corporate office parks.

I was thinking the same thing. Huh?

[AustinSkyscrapers]

Seaholm... Really Hope something will be going there now. It is something to hope for.

[actham]

Originally Posted by hookem

I wonder if the activity over at Seaholm could be related to the Pfluger bridge extension? They are both city-owned projects in close proximity, maybe they just need some fill dirt for the bridge landing?

I think Hookem might be right. But what to do with that huge hole? Its getting really big!

[WAustinResident]

Seaholm without the green water treatment plant is still going to not have the effect of connecting downtown.

[WAustinResident]

http://www.austin360.com/movies/new-art-house-theater-to-open-downtown-545116.html

New Art House Theater coming to second street.

4 screen theater with bar and cocktails. This will help bring more traffic to second street and diversify they type of commercial spaces being used, since most of it is shopping and furniture at that.

It opens in december the same time as the W hotel, so that block just got even more hopping.

[hookem]

Cool, a new local place (not a chain), with a good name. Hope they are successful!

[ahealy]

Horray for more independently run cinemas in Austin!

[car2004]

Originally Posted by AustinSkyscrapers

I did see the new SSP skyline. At least it is real neat to have Frosty in there. Who knew that a building like that could pop up here? (Against a bunch of contenders like Comcast, T.I.H.T, Aqua, and Bank of America?)

Now for the population thing, I don't think Austin can pass Jacksonville within 2012. Indianapolis is a little tad bit hard to, considering they are 12,000 away from us. Jacksonville is 21,000. BUT, you need to take in consideration that Austin is one of the Top 10 fastest growing cities in the nation. (Where are they now, is it still 6th?) You also have to consider the fact that Austin was #1 in cities that are recovering from the recession.

If Austin can beat Jacksonville, I'd put my money for Austin to beat San Fransisco--maybe a bet for Detroit 2020...

I have been to a lot of cities in my life, and I say this without ambiguity, Austin is the best place to live within the United States. I have debated for so long where I would love to be for the rest of my life (after finishing up my PhD.), and I can think of no other place than Austin. Of course, like I said, within the United States. I think you might be understating the population growth. As is, I believe, from what I remember, Texas is growing in population from people moving out of other States. If that trend continues, and if the construction growth continues as well, Austin could very well be among the top ten biggest cities in the United States. I still get freaked out by the fact that Austin’s population is over 750,000. It is such a big difference from a little over 650,000 in 2000. Really, who would not want to live in a city of such diversity and mixture of culture and architecture at the heart of Texas?!

[Jdawgboy]

While I can agree that 183 is Austin's second major expressway behind I-35, It is going to have problems in the future due to the fact that most of it is only 3 lanes in each direction while Ben White 290/71 is much larger through most of the segment between I-35 and the 360 split off. Its not out of the realm to see a good ammount of density in this area in the future though not without a fight from Southwood NA and some of the others. I can honestly say that the segment through the heart of South Austin is by far the best built Expressway Austin has, other than some of the new tollways. Now all they need to do is complete the southbound connector ramps to I-35!

[nixcity]

^You're right Jdawg, Ben White is the only highway in Austin (except for the new tolls) that has been ahead of it's time. Even in rush hour you can cruise.
But the connector ramps do need to get going, weren't they supposed to start already?

[Dan Denson]

Originally Posted by car2004

I have been to a lot of cities in my life, and I say this without ambiguity, Austin is the best place to live within the United States. I have debated for so long where I would love to be for the rest of my life (after finishing up my PhD.), and I can think of no other place than Austin. Of course, like I said, within the United States. I think you might be understating the population growth. As is, I believe, from what I remember, Texas is growing in population from people moving out of other States. If that trend continues, and if the construction growth continues as well, Austin could very well be among the top ten biggest cities in the United States. I still get freaked out by the fact that Austin’s population is over 750,000. It is such a big difference from a little over 650,000 in 2000. Really, who would not want to live in a city of such diversity and mixture of culture and architecture at the heart of Texas?!

Sometimes I have to go other places and then return to really appreciate Austin. I just wish we had more high rises outside of downtown like Houston and Dallas do.

[OU812]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

Huh?

Have you driven down 183 or 360? They are both littered with suburban office buildings. Ben White East of 35 is covered in office parks.. and then there is roundrock which seems to be about half corporate office parks.

i meant in comparison to dallas or houston. austin's are mostly 4/5 stories. the ones alongside the freeways of d/h are like 10-15-20+ stories and seem endless. it's just a completely different look and feel. yeah i know not everyone likes this- but i do. i guess i'm just a big city person at heart, and austin is really still just a mid-sized college town... yet right on the cusp of moving into "big" city territory. yeah i would move but i can't (long story).

by the way, the only real cluster of high rises along 183 are in the arboretum area, plus national instruments tech co. bldg across from the domain and that one single (old brick!) chase tower near tollway 45. it's otherwise flat. same with 360. although the nice hills on 360 make up for the lack of towers. the few there, are up on hills so they appear taller than they really are.

[OU812]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

While I can agree that 183 is Austin's second major expressway behind I-35, It is going to have problems in the future due to the fact that most of it is only 3 lanes in each direction while Ben White 290/71 is much larger through most of the segment between I-35 and the 360 split off. Its not out of the realm to see a good ammount of density in this area in the future though not without a fight from Southwood NA and some of the others. I can honestly say that the segment through the heart of South Austin is by far the best built Expressway Austin has, other than some of the new tollways. Now all they need to do is complete the southbound connector ramps to I-35!

austin is going to have transportation problems faaaaaar into the future. of the 4 major cities of texas (not including el paso because i know nothing about them) -- austin had the worst planning back 30/40/50 years ago. we all know by now that new expressways were voted down. a loop around the city (beltway) was voted down. a downtown crosstown expressway was voted down, etc. etc. etc. it's an endless debate that only makes me sick to my stomach to argue about, so i just grin and bear it. yeah i even use the new tollroads once in a while. although i hate the idea of converting our older highways (which should have originally been freeways) into tollways. we really got sucker punched in the face on that one. protests, public opposition, emails, calls, attending CAMPO meetings- nothing helped. the politicos will do what they always do- whatever the hell they want. highway 290 east is about to become the "manor tollway". sickening! worst of all, nothing relieves congestion on i-35 or mopac. they're as bad as they've always been.

btw, i can't see how that 183 viaduct will ever have more lanes. where would they put it? even higher up above the already elevated portion from i35 to mopac? again, austin's got longstanding highway issues that will take eons to resolve (if ever). i DO support mass transit and i hope one day rail becomes a viable alternative to driving. right now one single line going from podunk leander to downtown is just a drop in the bucket, but at least it's a start. too bad light rail didn't pass in 2000. it's always better to build these things out before they're REALLY needed. that's what the opponents of the 2000 vote didn't understand. yeah we didn't exactly need it that bad then or now, but we WILL. heaven forbid gas prices go back to $4/gal or more.

[OU812]

btw, one more rant then i'm done:

WHY WHY WHY isn't highway 183 EAST (ie: ed bluestein blvd) commercially developed??? i assume it's because that part of the highway is still just a "highway" and not a stop light-less freeway?? but is that the only reason?? does some old family own all that land and is unwilling to give it up? seriously that entire area should be filled with development. i'm talking high rise commercial, residential, sports stadiums, concert arenas, etc. etc. whoever owns all that land is sitting on a goldmine. just get rid of that sewer plant near bolm rd. (assuming its still there?)

PERFECT place for a new sports arena/stadium: the intersection of 290/183!!!