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  #161  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2010, 7:07 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
the angled crossings/dipsy-doodles are to cross the channelized right turn
Yes, of course it is, but it is an excellent example of the total lack of reallity shown by some planners. Your Google Street View offers a wonderful comparison to the 'new' (and not so improved) design. In the Street View picture, the pathway runs directly beside the channelized right turn and people can make a slight change in their direction of movement to cross the channel. With the 'new' design, people will simply walk or ride directly to where they want to cross; they won't follow such an indirect route as planned. As Dado says
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Anyone want to take bets on where the grass is going to get worn down?
Walk along Castle Frank (north of Hazeldean) sometime and you will see that the path is well away from the road, but that it curves back to the road at each intersection. Unfortunately, the grass (or lack there-of) shows that people simply walk in a straight line, crossing away from the intersection.http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.300547,-75.893171&spn=0.001415,0.003007&t=h&z=19

Another example was right at City Hall. The path from the Plaza's norht east corner up to the Laurier Bridge was a serpentine path (presumably to get the length needed for wheelchairs), but the deep rut indicated that people walked straight up the slight incline.http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.421656,-75.690235&spn=0.001412,0.003007&t=h&z=19 * This path has been replaced by the Fire Fighters Monument.

Honestly, sometimes I think that these designers/planners have never actually been outside of a text-book. They need to open their eyes to what actually happens in the real world. The transit planners working on the DOTT also suffer the same apparent lack of understanding of what people actually want; but that is a rant for a different thread.
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  #162  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2010, 7:17 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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Blame the engineers, not the planners

The pedestrians might not be able to follow their desire lines anyways because of the ditch/swale along the road.

not saying that this is the way things should be designed... fundamentally the intersection is not pedestrian or cycling friendly.

Last edited by waterloowarrior; Mar 18, 2010 at 12:56 AM.
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  #163  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2010, 7:21 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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Yeah, but for some reason I thought you had moved back.
Ah, I was renting until my job was transferred. Probably what you are referencing to. I was supposed to start in Montréal in January of last year, but started in June instead. I was renting here also.
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  #164  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2010, 7:25 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Blame the engineers, not the planners
Don't get me started on engineers. In one class of engineering students I had, they were asked to minimize the costs of electricity in a transit system. So one group of students present me a system, on how converting the Montréal Metro to solar energy vehicles would save $45M a year.

You get the point.
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  #165  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2010, 12:32 AM
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City eyes improved west-end bike paths
Posted Mar 16, 2010
BY PHIL AMBROZIAK
http://www.emcottawawest.ca/20100312/news/City+eyes+improved+west-end+bike+paths

EMC News - With the recent wave of spring-like weather, local cyclists have had reason to celebrate.
They will have even more reason, however, if the City of Ottawa goes ahead with two potential projects being considered for 2011 under the Ottawa Cycling Plan (OCP).
According to information provided by the Citizens for Safe Cycling, one such project involves the existing path that runs through Hampton Park. With the support of local businesses and community associations, the cycling group successfully lobbied to have this path, which would link Parkview Rd. and Island Park Dr., added to the OCP.
“The path through Hampton Park is long overdue,” explained David Darwin, a cycling enthusiast and member of the Carlington Community Association. “I use that one myself and it is a messy route to try and get through.”
For the full story, please see the March 19 edition of the EMC.
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  #166  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2010, 9:01 PM
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  #167  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2010, 11:38 PM
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Bike lane pilot project could be delayed another year
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Bike+lane+pilot+project+could+delayed+another+year/2745401/story.html

BY JOANNE CHIANELLO, THE OTTAWA CITIZENMARCH 30, 2010 7:25 PM


OTTAWA — A pilot project to test drive segregated bike lanes downtown could be put off for another year because the councillor for the area says the public hasn’t been consulted.

“I think dedicated bike lanes are a great idea, we want to bring them in,” said Somerset councillor Diane Holmes. But, she added, “we don’t want a pilot that’s going to fail.”

That’s what she fears will happen if city goes ahead and reduces parking in Centretown and turns two-way streets into one-way routes with bike lanes separated by a barrier.

“I think we’re just asking for trouble if we spring it on people. They have to be involved right from the start.”

Holmes is calling for the city to involve a public advisory committee made up of residents, cyclists and business right from the start of the process.

She also plans to table a motion at the city’s transportation committee meeting on April 7 that will ask city staff to “open up the search for an appropriate corridor rather than just through Centretown.” Holmes said that while downtown may well be the best place for the pilot project, council’s original proposal for dedicated cycling lanes called for east-west routes, and cited downtown streets as an example only.

Council’s original motion to look into this plan also had no money attached to it.

That’s why Holmes’ will also be asking for funding in the 2011 budget for full-on public consultation with all the users of the street, because at this early stage, the city’s plans are “mainly the removal of parking in order to get in the bicycles,” a move that would be popular with neither area businesses nor residents.

City planning staff declined to comment on the pilot project.

Ottawa has a good system of cycling pathways, but none of them cut through downtown. And navigating through busy streets can be harrowing for even the most experienced cyclists.

“I bike to work all the time, but the part where I’m cycling on Queen Street is the scariest six minutes of my day,” said Michael Powell, chairman of the city’s road and cycling advisory committee.

Physically segregated lanes are “a good opportunity to make everyone a little more comfortable on the road,” he said. “It’s not about turning one road-user against the other.”

Powell pointed out that there are ways to keep parking on streets with designated biking lanes. For example, the lane can be situated between the sidewalk and the parking slots, and car lanes don’t need to be quite as wide if they do not have to accommodate cyclists.

The city’s transportation planners presented a preliminary plan to the advisory committee earlier this month, which included about seven potential streets in Centretown where planners were considering trying out the new kinds of lanes.

Although Powell said he liked the city’s early ideas and admits that Holmes’ motion will delay the project by months, the councillor’s plan is “ultimately a good thing.

“The best way is to talk to as many people as possible.”

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  #168  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2010, 12:41 AM
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Well that was predictable. Funny that no one predicted this would happen. Oh, wait.

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Why not just turn it into a full EA while we're at it.

Unless this project consists of nothing other than using Jersey barricades or parking lot curbs, this won't be ready to try out before August.
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  #169  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 2:22 PM
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Cycling advocates oppose new study

Councillor proposes shelving pilot project for east-west route

BY KATE JAIMET, THE OTTAWA CITIZENAPRIL 2, 2010 7:41 AM


A section of Somerset Street as it would appear with a bicycle route. This image shows Somerset Street as a one-way street with parking on it while the proposal calls for two bike lanes on the street.

Photograph by: Image courtesy, City of Ottawa report

Plans for a safe, segregated east-west bike route through downtown should move ahead this spring, say cycling advocates, opposing a motion by Somerset ward councillor Diane Holmes to shelve the pilot project until a city-wide study is undertaken.

"We study things until we're blue in the face, and, at the end of it all, we're left with nothing," Ottawa Bicycle Club president Ron Stoneham said. "I think it's a great idea to have something in the downtown core ... and, if it works, expand it elsewhere."

"We need a visible pilot and we need it in the downtown area where the most cyclists are," said Tom Trottier, past president of Citizens for Safe Cycling. "I don't think we should broaden the scope of the study."

Following a motion passed by city council in 2008, city staff wrote a paper outlining possible routes for a trial version of an east-west bike lane across downtown. The lane would be separated from car traffic by posts or a curb.

The proposed route that scored highest would have two bike lanes running east and west along Somerset Street. It would connect to the University of Ottawa via the Corktown footbridge and run through Somerset Village and Chinatown to Little Italy on Preston Street. It would also involve eliminating some street parking along Somerset and turning one block, between Elgin and Metcalfe, into a one-way street.

Other possible routes included Lisgar and Gilmour streets and Gladstone Avenue, with varying effects on street parking. The paper also discussed the possibilities of east- and westbound bike lanes together on one street or on two different streets.

City staff presented the paper to the city's roads and cycling advisory committee earlier this month, with the intention of holding a public open house this spring, followed by a formal report to the city's transportation committee in May or June.

On Thursday, though, Holmes gave notice that she intended to table a motion at a transportation committee meeting next week that could delay the downtown pilot project indefinitely.

Citing the geographical restrictions of the original study area, the motion would ask staff to "evaluate the best corridor(s) city-wide for consideration of a pilot on-street segregated cycling facility." That means looking for the best spot for a trial anywhere in Ottawa, not just downtown.

Holmes said she believed in a segregated cycling route across downtown, but it might be better to start with a pilot project somewhere else to prove that the concept was workable and wouldn't hurt businesses.

If an evaluation does determine that downtown is the best place for a pilot project, there should be full consultation before it goes ahead, she said. She said that, although the paper presents various alternatives, it's clear from her discussion with city staff that Somerset is their preferred location.

"You don't ask Centretown and Chinatown to have some of their parking or all of their parking removed without consulting them," Holmes said. "The residents and the businesses and the churches have got to come to a decision with all of the professional help we can give them that, 'Yes, we can do this and my business won't be badly affected by it'."

Holmes said she thought analysing pilot project locations across the city could take "a couple of months," plus another "four or five months" of consultations afterward.

Bay Councillor Alex Cullen said he understood the concerns of downtown business owners about traffic and parking, but he said the city must face these issues and wrestle with them, rather than avoiding or delaying them.

"We need to have a pilot project. We need to pick a route cyclists will use and test it out," Cullen said. "How Somerset joins both eastern and western communities to downtown makes it an ideal candidate."

Derek Crain, chair of the Somerset Village Business Improvement Area, said a bike lane on the north side of the street was a possibility, but not on the south side, which is used for parking.

"We definitely would not support anything that would take the curbside parking off the street," said Crain, whose organization represents the businesses between Bank and O'Connor streets.

River Councillor Maria McRae, who chairs council's transportation committee, says she'll support Holmes's motion to effectively start over and believes in developing a broader city-wide cycling strategy.

Capital Councillor Clive Doucet, who sits on the transportation committee, says he will move an amendment to Holmes' motion that would allow the downtown pilot project to go ahead at the same time as a city-wide study.

Doucet said the downtown pilot project could be amended to allow a bicycle "priority" lane rather than a bikes-only lane on certain stretches of Somerset, keeping street parking intact.

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  #170  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2010, 11:01 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Not a fan of that configuration. It should be 2 way, 2 lanes with parking prohibited and the red segregated bicycle lanes in both directions.
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  #171  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2010, 3:26 AM
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RTWAP RTWAP is offline
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OMG. I agree with Clive on something.

*pinches self*

Ouch!
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  #172  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2010, 3:35 AM
Ottawan Ottawan is offline
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OMG. I agree with Clive on something.

*pinches self*

Ouch!
Ok... but I hope it wasn't this part:

Quote:
Doucet said the downtown pilot project could be amended to allow a bicycle "priority" lane rather than a bikes-only lane on certain stretches of Somerset, keeping street parking intact.
I'm imagining bike-only lanes hitting stretches of Somerset where they become 'priority lanes' aka street parking. Sounds like a recipe for failure of the pilot project, for an increase in accidents, and just plainly makes no sense.
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  #173  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2010, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Cycling advocates oppose new study

Councillor proposes shelving pilot project for east-west route

BY KATE JAIMET, THE OTTAWA CITIZENAPRIL 2, 2010 7:41 AM


A section of Somerset Street as it would appear with a bicycle route. This image shows Somerset Street as a one-way street with parking on it while the proposal calls for two bike lanes on the street.

Photograph by: Image courtesy, City of Ottawa report
And we're off to a great start with this image because...

Quote:
The proposed route that scored highest would have two bike lanes running east and west along Somerset Street. It would connect to the University of Ottawa via the Corktown footbridge and run through Somerset Village and Chinatown to Little Italy on Preston Street. It would also involve eliminating some street parking along Somerset and turning one block, between Elgin and Metcalfe, into a one-way street.
... the image supplied by the city depicting this one-way street is actually Somerset between Bank & O'Connor:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geo...vbvxEZI5LmlGV-rhaMw&cbp=12,56.24,,0,5.84

This is between Metcalfe & Elgin:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geo...eXmltc3k1RjQR4Dz9PQA&cbp=12,46.84,,0,5.7

The City clearly isn't too serious about this if they're drawing up images of a certain implementation type along a stretch of road that is different from the only stretch that they are saying might receive that implementation type. I can accept that a graphic artist might have picked the wrong bit of Somerset, or they did it all to see what it would look like, but someone should be responsible for ensuring that images being released supporting accompanying text match what the text claims. The fact this wasn't done indicates that it wasn't judged to be important enough to worry about, and that does not bode well for the entire project.
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  #174  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2010, 9:19 PM
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Bike lane pilot-project delayed to fall
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Bike+lane+pilot+project+delayed+fall/2774641/story.html
BY KATE JAIMET, THE OTTAWA CITIZENAPRIL 7, 2010 5:04 PM
OTTAWA — A pilot project for an east-west segregated bike lane across downtown initially planned for this summer, will be delayed until fall, to allow more time for public consultation.

The transportation committee passed a motion by Somerset councillor Diane Holmes Wednesday to immediately set up a public advisory panel to study a possible east-west segregated bike route. Four public meetings will also be held.

The motion follows a report by city staff that suggested several possible routes across downtown, including: Gladstone Avenue, Lisgar Street, Gilmour Street, Laurier Avenue West, and Somerset Street. Somerset received the highest score, but Holmes raised concerns about the removal of curbside parking in order to create bike lanes.

Initially, the pilot project was meant to go ahead this summer after a single public meeting, but the expanded consultations mean it will be delayed, probably until September.

"Initially I was a bit troubled by the delay, because we have been waiting so long for a segregated lane across the city," said Capital ward councillor Clive Doucet. "But councillor Holmes knows her ward, and if she says she needs these consultations, I believe her."

Doucet said he believes the segregated bike lane will be an immediate success, even if it does not open until September.

The only councillor to vote against the motion was Jacques Legendres (Rideau-Rockcliffe) who raised concerns about the delay.

In a related motion, the transportation committee also asked city staff to look into the possiblity of creating more pilot projects for segregated bike lanes elsewhere in the city.

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  #175  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2010, 9:20 PM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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here's the staff presentation on the segregated lanes
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/pdf/segregated_bike_lanes_2010-11_ottawa_pilot.pdf

Last edited by waterloowarrior; Apr 7, 2010 at 11:09 PM.
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  #176  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2010, 10:51 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
Thanks for that.

I'm not convinced that Somerset is the best option because of the transit service. How could a bike lane be fully segregated if buses keep pulling into it to pick up passengers? (If someone has an image of how this is dealt with in other cities, I'd love to see it).

There seem to be some alternatives that are not considered:
-MacLaren (one block south of Somerset) is considered as a single lane route, but Cooper (one block north of Somerset) is not. Why? A MacLaren/Cooper pair could work as a route from Percy to the Canal. From Preston-Percy, Somerset would have to be used.

-How difficult would it be to install a switchback/ramp system to connect the 2 sections of Primrose Ave? (here: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s...004188,0.009645&z=17&cbp=12,86.87,,0,9.3). If it is possible, Primrose/Lisgar could work as a continuous corridor from Preston to the canal.
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  #177  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2010, 2:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
Thanks for that.

I'm not convinced that Somerset is the best option because of the transit service. How could a bike lane be fully segregated if buses keep pulling into it to pick up passengers? (If someone has an image of how this is dealt with in other cities, I'd love to see it).

There seem to be some alternatives that are not considered:
-MacLaren (one block south of Somerset) is considered as a single lane route, but Cooper (one block north of Somerset) is not. Why? A MacLaren/Cooper pair could work as a route from Percy to the Canal. From Preston-Percy, Somerset would have to be used.
The #2 bus does seem to stop every twenty feet. There's also a lot of traffic turning off and on Somerset, which partly defeats the purpose of a segregated lane. At the same time, it's the most direct route across Centretown, and many of the destinations that people might be heading to - grocery store, coffee shop, restaurant, bar - are along Somerset. The biggest drawback, though, is the loss of parking. The local businesses wouldn't like that one bit. The loss of parking on both sides of Somerset between Bronson and Bay would be particularly hard on merchants there (some do have their own parking, though).

My choices...

1. Two lanes all the way down Somerset - for all its drawbacks, it's the logical crosstown route, and two lanes would help in building critical mass
2. One lane all the way down Somerset and one all the way down Lisgar/Primrose (assuming the ramp thingy is feasible) - still a decent crosstown route, but less disruptive to existing parking and traffic patterns
3. Two lanes on Somerset from Preston to Percy, then any number of splits (Lisgar, Cooper, Maclaren, Gilmour, whatever - I don't get why Cooper was excluded either, except maybe the lack of traffic signals)
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  #178  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2010, 2:46 PM
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As long as the bus isn't pulling into the bicycle lane for pickup and drop-off the bus service shouldn't rule Somerset out.
Sounds like Harder has to sell the bike lane to her constituents on Somerset,but delaying the pilot project seems counterproductive. Those Somerset businesses aren't going to be convinced that they can live without some of their parking by a study and some public meetings. They won't believe it can work until they see it with their own eyes. That's what pilot projects are for - proving the feasibility of an idea.
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  #179  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 3:11 AM
rodionx rodionx is offline
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As long as the bus isn't pulling into the bicycle lane for pickup and drop-off the bus service shouldn't rule Somerset out.
Sounds like Harder has to sell the bike lane to her constituents on Somerset,but delaying the pilot project seems counterproductive. Those Somerset businesses aren't going to be convinced that they can live without some of their parking by a study and some public meetings. They won't believe it can work until they see it with their own eyes. That's what pilot projects are for - proving the feasibility of an idea.
I don't know how they can avoid having the bus pull into the bike lane for pickup and dropoff, unless they run the bike lane down the middle of the street. I suppose that's possible, come to think of it, but the graphic shows one lane running alongside each curb.

You're probably right that the Somerset businesses won't come around. I think it's disingenuous for the city to call it a pilot project, though, since it involves some fairly major changes to the street, including converting a section to one way. It would be a pilot project in the same sense that the O-train is a pilot project.
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  #180  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 8:56 AM
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good in theory

It seems to me that city council is in favour of promoting cycling in theory, but then staff come back and explain that some combination of parking and/or lanes will be lost and council gets cold feet. The car is king in Ottawa and will remain that way until the city (and NCC) decide to make hard decisions and adjust the infrastructure balance in the city.

Part of the problem is that centretown has the wrong types of business for an urban area - businesses that rely on drivers for most of their business should be located in suburban strip malls.
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