Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[CLC]

^ I would want a East-West bus route that is busy both ways all day, says, on 41th ave or some BCIT-UBC route, to experiment with Streetcar first before a North-South route. The N-S transit pattern is too one-directional (going north) from 5am through noon, may not be the best utilization of resources.

[BCPhil]

^ East-West routes, like the 41 and 49, are busy mostly because of the current state of the 99B Line. They basically act as relief for the over crowded 99B Line.

Once Skytrain is extended all the way to UBC, it will be hands down the fastest way to get there. Many people who take local buses all the way to UBC will instead head North to the UBC line on Expo or Canada Line or north-south buses. It was my experience that the 49 left Metrotown full because many people on it are sacrificing their time on the 49 to UBC so they can get a seat, instead of standing on an overcrowded B line.

With the UBC Line, the 20 won't get less busy, in fact it will probably draw new riders to it as it connects at Broadway-Commercial. By investing money on a high capacity streetcar for the #20 it won't be a lost investment if the UBC extension gobbles up a majority of East-West riders.

[WarrenC12]

I agree with BC Phil on the 99B situation and E-W traffic.

Prime areas for LRT would be replacements for the #20, and E-W from Waterfront Centre down Hastings as far as possible.

King George is another priority, ideally as far as White Rock.

[Zassk]

^ Any Hastings LRT line that is built should also extend west as far as Denman... and ideally turn down Denman to Davie too. It is a shame we don't have some kind of rapid transit to the west end, and we should sieze any opportunities for it.

Hey, since we're discussing candidates for LRT, what about Willingdon?

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

^ East-West routes, like the 41 and 49, are busy mostly because of the current state of the 99B Line. They basically act as relief for the over crowded 99B Line.

Once Skytrain is extended all the way to UBC, it will be hands down the fastest way to get there. Many people who take local buses all the way to UBC will instead head North to the UBC line on Expo or Canada Line or north-south buses. It was my experience that the 49 left Metrotown full because many people on it are sacrificing their time on the 49 to UBC so they can get a seat, instead of standing on an overcrowded B line.

This is the biggest reason why I feel the UBC extension has to go all the way to UBC. And not just to Arbutus.

Hopefully after the UBC extension is built. The only people who would use the 41,43,49 routes are those that either live along those routes or have a destination along those routes.

[twoNeurons]

I think they'd still use the train.
The B-Line takes ~20 minutes through a relatively low traffic area from Arbutus to UBC.
The #41,49 takes ~55 minutes.

Even with the additional 15 minutes by train, your time saved is greater than 10 minutes. I just don't see the immediate need for a train all the way to UBC at this time. We'd have much better bang for buck with a train + bus system.

The only negative I can see is that LRT proponents would argue that LRT would've gone all the way for the same price. Whether that's true or not is anyone's guess.

I'm looking forward to the results from the corridor study. When is it due again?

[Zassk]

41,49 take 55 minutes from Arbutus to UBC? Since when? They were nearly as fast as the 99B when I used to take these buses 10 years ago. What changed?

Anyway, I think it's insane to build any amount of rail on Broadway and to stop it short of UBC. IMO it would be like building C-line not-quite-to YVR. UBC isn't just some average college campus, it's a massive transit destination, and one of the fastest growing residential neighbourhoods as well. I believe one of the studies linked last week shows that it's a bigger transit destination than Central Broadway itself.

Truthfully, UBC should be counted as one of the town centres in the region, and probably would have been, had it been part of an incorporated municipality.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Council favoring taking the streetcar to UBC rather than skytrain?

Streetcar technology could come to Broadway corridor


http://www.news1130.com/news/local/artic...chnology-could-come-to-broadway-corridor

Troubling, and it certainly sounds that Gregor the Green is leaning that way:

...Mr. Robertson said the best bet for the return of streetcars could be as part of a transit system running along Broadway, possibly built some time after the Evergreen Line is running in 2014. "It will take years to bring back," said Mr. Robertson, noting his bottom line on the issue is to wait for TransLink and the province to join the city in exploring solutions...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...bye-to-olympic-streetcar/article1507703/

Indeed, I found the wording on the City survey biased toward a streetcar system. Did anyone else feel that way?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Troubling, and it certainly sounds that Gregor the Green is leaning that way:

...Mr. Robertson said the best bet for the return of streetcars could be as part of a transit system running along Broadway, possibly built some time after the Evergreen Line is running in 2014. "It will take years to bring back," said Mr. Robertson, noting his bottom line on the issue is to wait for TransLink and the province to join the city in exploring solutions...

Indeed, I found the wording on the City survey biased toward a streetcar system. Did anyone else feel that way?

I don't know why they are departing from the original Granville Island to Stanley Park plan and thinking now this will be a replacement for the UBC line.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Zassk

41,49 take 55 minutes from Arbutus to UBC? Since when? They were nearly as fast as the 99B when I used to take these buses 10 years ago. What changed?

From Joyce SkyTrain (not Arbutus) to UBC takes 55 minutes according to Translink's trip planner.

A SkyTrain + Bus from Arbutus would probably be about 40-45 minutes

Anyway, I think it's insane to build any amount of rail on Broadway and to stop it short of UBC. IMO it would be like building C-line not-quite-to YVR.

But if it's the difference between getting it built and not getting it built...

[lezard]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't know why they are departing from the original Granville Island to Stanley Park plan and thinking now this will be a replacement for the UBC line.

A streetcar was always one of the options the Province and Translink have been considering since they started planning for the UBC Line.

We all would like to see an extension of the Millenium Line as the ideal UBC Line choice, but it remains only one of the options on the table.

[twoNeurons]

I hope they have at least a minimum option of an M-Line SkyTrain connection to the Canada Line. Even if it stops short, it is a major handicap in really opening up transportation.

[CLC]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Indeed, I found the wording on the City survey biased toward a streetcar system. Did anyone else feel that way?

No doubt about it. I saw it coming that it will steers towards "streetcar for Broadway rapid transit" movement. That's why I disliked free streetcar demonstration from day 1, which is running own ROW with only one crossing that could illustrate nothing about common drawbacks of streetcar (excepts there was a minor crash).

[officedweller]

The M-Line should at least run the length of the Broadway office corridor - to Granville or Arbutus.
West of there is up for grabs.

[Alex Mackinnon]

I think the easiest was of doing any type of MLine extension down broadway is to simply run 2 TBMs in the same direction and phase the construction as money becomes available. Once the first few stations open up we'd get a good idea of how much of the additional ridership is actually going to use train and should be a good force in helping drive demand for additional construction. Connecting up for Willow or Granville would be a good starting point for a first phase, getting the connection with the CLine going and opening up central Broadway.

[officedweller]

Phasing would be a great approach - especially if it can expedite the M-Line connection to the Canada Line.

Of interest:

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/...ap-solution-to-an-expensive-proposition/

[Canadian Mind]

Yea, but wouldn't the costs of having 2 TBMs severely offset the initial savings from phasing it? Would one large TBM not do a better job, or a TBM that bored from VCC-Clark to Canada Line, was hauled along the tunnel back, then bores the other tunnel? Least that way by the time it is done boring phase 1, funding for phase 2 might be underway.

[Alex Mackinnon]

I think if you were to only have one main tunnel you would still have to dig a parallel service tunnel in case of emergency, but I'm not too sure of safety regs. I'm just a graduating engineering student, so if anyone actually know the regs it would be a nice thing find out.

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I hope they have at least a minimum option of an M-Line SkyTrain connection to the Canada Line. Even if it stops short, it is a major handicap in really opening up transportation.

I couldn't agree more. This would make the three lines all interconnected, which would increase ridership in a non-linear fashion.

[flight_from_kamakura]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I found the wording on the City survey biased toward a streetcar system. Did anyone else feel that way?

i didn't think so, personally, if anything i thought it sort of skewed pro alrt.

Originally Posted by officedweller

The M-Line should at least run the length of the Broadway office corridor - to Granville or Arbutus.
West of there is up for grabs.

i agree. a full m-line extension would be fantastic, but running it to arbutus would agree with the residents/merchants out there and save hundreds of millions of dollars. on the bright side, we could even imagine a hub of sorts developing as lrt to ubc and along the arbutus corridor are built out.