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  #2521  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 12:23 PM
Hourglass Hourglass is offline
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
lol well, I have another flight next year Moscow - Beijing and it is either Air China or Aeroflot. That, or back track to Frankfurt for Lufthansa.



I want to fly in Class R
Or you can fly in style Moscow - Hong Kong - Beijing on Cathay/Dragonair, which isn't such a backtrack. Cathay has announced Hong Kong - Moscow.
     
     
  #2522  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 2:10 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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I see Virgin America has chosen Toronto to be their first international destination, from LAX and SFO. Is this part of the massive Government/Air Canada conspiracy to slight YVR?
Why do you think that? That sounds like a good route.

SFO-YVR and LAX-YVR are crowded markets.
     
     
  #2523  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 3:46 PM
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YVR SFO is only serviced by AC\UA. I would think that there is still roo in the market for some more capacity. hopefully Westjet or maybe Virgin America will service the market.
     
     
  #2524  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 5:38 PM
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I think the lack of YVR-SFO is because of the ticket price. YVR-SFO ticket prices seem to be stuck at around $500. Take a 3 hour drive to SEA and you can get to SFO for around $200. You can make a connection in Salt Lake or LAX or something to bring it down to about $350, but you will end up spending more time travelling than if you just drove to SEA.

The flights are short, so spending a few hours in your car doesn't affect travel plans. It's much harder to fit in a 3 hour drive before an 8 hour flight.
     
     
  #2525  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 6:00 PM
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^Don't forget Bellingham to Oakland. Can be as low as around $120 round trip on Allegiant!

(Just don't forget to travel with carry-on and get your seat at check-in.)

Transit connections from Oakland to SF are probably easier and about the same time (maybe less) than from SFO to SF.
     
     
  #2526  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 6:03 PM
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Not related to YVR, but I survived DEATH! More so than usual when you fly Air Canada. I had my first emergency landing today, it was thrilling Firemen and firetrucks and all.

Just after my flight left Toronto, the pilot came on to say there is an "issue" with the wings of the aircraft (he said we could not gain altitude), that will require us to turn back and do a "routine and safe" landing in Toronto. But then when we got on the ground they told us it was a partial hydraulic failure, due to a hydraulic leak and we probably had about half an hour before full hydraulic failure! We wouldn't have made it to Boston! This was Air Canada in their cheap little Brazilian Embraer 75 jets. Now in credit to Air Canada it was handled very professionally by everyone (including the flight attendants), the pilots were very skilled, and they had a replacement plane out of the hangar (that was getting its tires replaced) within about an hour.

And I was crazy enough to get on it. But a handful of people elected not to fly today...

They were not, however, offered refunds as Air Canada policy "only compensates people if a flight is delayed by at least 3 hours".

By the way, this was the second emergency landing in Toronto in 12 hours, and fourth Air Canada hydraulic related emergency in 24 hours.
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  #2527  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 6:12 PM
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flights from Sea-SFO seem to range from $323.00 to around $459.

Last edited by Gordon; Mar 24, 2010 at 6:35 PM.
     
     
  #2528  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 7:44 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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SFO has a lot of Asian connections. Something we could have as well, were we positioned as an Asian hub.

SF city is about the same size as VanCity, but they admittedly have a larger metro population to draw on. That being said, SFO has more viable competition from Oakland and San Jose. YXX (Abbotsford) isn't bad but YYJ ( Victoria ) is very small.

As far as I can gather, their "Equivalent to Canada Metro" metro population is around 4 million people.

Note: SF's Metro is calculated to be 4x the land area of Vancouver. By US standards, we would probably be including Victoria, Nanaimo Abbotsford and perhaps Bellingham into Vancouver's Metro. YVR draws on all these locations for international flights adding up to ~3,000,000.
     
     
  #2529  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 9:35 PM
WaxItYourself WaxItYourself is offline
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In the Skytrax World Airport Awards, though they do not have it up on their website yet, YVR has been named as the top airport in North America.

http://www.miss604.com/2010/03/yvr-named-top-airport-in-north-america.html
     
     
  #2530  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2010, 9:57 PM
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I thought this was really interesting [though i don't agree that we should follow Isreal's example]. i will however try to remember this the next time i'm asked to remove my shoes

What Israel can teach us about security
At Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv, screening is done in 30 minutes. The key? Look passengers in the eye

Cathal Kelly
Staff Reporter

While North America's airports groan under the weight of another sea-change in security protocols, one word keeps popping out of the mouths of experts: Israelification.

That is, how can we make our airports more like Israel's, which deal with far greater terror threats with far less inconvenience.

"It is mind boggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He has worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world.

"Israelis, unlike Canadians and Americans, don't take s--- from anybody. When the security agency in Israel (the ISA) started to tighten security and we had to wait in line for – not for hours – but 30 or 40 minutes, all hell broke loose here. We said, `We're not going to do this. You're going to find a way that will take care of security without touching the efficiency of the airport.'"

Despite facing dozens of potential threats each day, the security set-up at Israel's largest hub, Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport, has not been breached since 2002, when a passenger mistakenly carried a handgun onto a flight. How do they manage that?

The first layer of actual security that greets travellers at Ben Gurion is a roadside check. All drivers are stopped and asked two questions: How are you? Where are you coming from?
"Two benign questions. The questions aren't important. The way people act when they answer them is," Sela said.

Once you've parked your car or gotten off your bus, you pass through the second and third security perimeters.

Armed guards outside the terminal observe passengers as they move toward the doors, again looking for odd behaviour. At Ben Gurion's half-dozen entrances, another layer of security is watching. At this point, some travellers will be randomly taken aside, and their person and their luggage run through a magnometer.

"This is to see that you don't have heavy metals on you or something that looks suspicious," said Sela.

You are now in the terminal. As you approach your airline check-in desk, a trained interviewer takes your passport and ticket. They ask a series of questions: Who packed your luggage? Has it left your side?

"The whole time, they are looking into your eyes – which is very embarrassing. But this is one of the ways they figure out if you are suspicious or not. It takes 20, 25 seconds," said Sela.

Lines are staggered. People are not allowed to bunch up into inviting targets for a bomber who has gotten this far.

At the check-in desk, your luggage is scanned immediately in a purpose-built area. Sela plays devil's advocate – what if you have escaped the attention of the first four layers of security, and now try to pass a bag with a bomb in it?

"I once put this question to Jacques Duchesneau (the former head of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority): say there is a bag with Play-Doh in it and two pens stuck in the Play-Doh. That is `Bombs 101' to a screener. I asked Duchesneau, `What would you do?' And he said, `Evacuate the terminal.' And I said, `Oh. My. God.'

"Take (Toronto's) Pearson (airport). Do you know how many people are in the terminal at all times? Many thousands. Let's say I'm (doing an evacuation) without panic – which will never happen. But let's say this is the case. How long will it take? Nobody thought about it. I said, `Two days.'"

A screener at Ben Gurion has a pair of better options.

First, the screening area is surrounded by contoured, blast-proof glass that can contain the detonation of up to 100 kilos of plastic explosive. Only the few dozen people within the screening area need be removed, and only to a point a few metres away.

Second, all the screening areas contain `bomb boxes.' If a screener spots a suspect bag, he/she is trained to pick it up and place it in the box, which is blast proof. A bomb squad arrives shortly and wheels the box away for further investigation.

"This is a very small, simple example of how we can simply stop a problem that would cripple one of your airports," Sela said.

Five security layers down: you now finally arrive at the only one which Ben Gurion airport shares with Pearson – the body and hand-luggage check.

"But here it is done completely, absolutely 180 degrees differently than it is done in North America," Sela said.

"First, it's fast – there's almost no line. That's because they're not looking for liquids, they're not looking at your shoes. They're not looking for everything they look for in North America. They just look at you," said Sela. "Even today with the heightened security in North America, they will check your items to death. But they will never look at you, at how you behave. They will never look into your eyes ... and that's how you figure out the bad guys from the good guys."

The goal at Ben Gurion is to move fliers from the parking lot to the airport lounge in 25 minutes tops.

And then there's intelligence. In Israel, Sela said, a coordinated intelligence gathering operation produces a constantly evolving series of threat analyses and vulnerability studies.

"There is absolutely no intelligence and threat analysis done in Canada or the United States," Sela said. "Absolutely none."

But even without the intelligence, Sela maintains, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab – who allegedly tried to blow up Northwest Airlines Flight 253 on Christmas Day – would not have gotten past Ben Gurion's behavioural profilers.

So. Eight years after 9/11, why are we still so reactive?

Sela first blames our leaders, and then ourselves.

"You can easily do what we do. You don't have to replace anything. You have to add just a little bit – technology, training," Sela said. "But you have to completely change the way you go about doing airport security. And that is something that the bureaucrats have a problem with. They are very well enclosed in their own concept."

And rather than fear, he suggests outrage would be a far more powerful spur to provoking that change.

"Do you know why Israelis are so calm? We have brutal terror attacks on our civilians and still, life in Israel is pretty good. The reason is that people trust their defence forces, their police, their response teams and the security agencies. They know they're doing a good job. You can't say the same thing about Americans and Canadians. They don't trust anybody," Sela said. "But they say, `So far, so good.' Then if something happens, all hell breaks loose and you've spent eight hours in an airport. Which is ridiculous. Not justifiable."

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744426--what-israel-can-teach-us-about-security
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  #2531  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2010, 2:06 AM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
SFO has a lot of Asian connections. Something we could have as well, were we positioned as an Asian hub.

SF city is about the same size as VanCity, but they admittedly have a larger metro population to draw on. That being said, SFO has more viable competition from Oakland and San Jose. YXX (Abbotsford) isn't bad but YYJ ( Victoria ) is very small.

As far as I can gather, their "Equivalent to Canada Metro" metro population is around 4 million people.

Note: SF's Metro is calculated to be 4x the land area of Vancouver. By US standards, we would probably be including Victoria, Nanaimo Abbotsford and perhaps Bellingham into Vancouver's Metro. YVR draws on all these locations for international flights adding up to ~3,000,000.
If you include Oakland, the East Bay, the Peninsula, San Jose and Marin County, I think SF's Metro population is over 4 million (more like 7 million)
And of course, it's positioned on the West Coast, has a large Asian poplulation, so naturally has a lot of Asian connections.

Vancouver will get there, proportionally, as we have a large Asian population and are on the West Coast. Plus, being the northernmost major city on the Pacific, our travel distance is the shortest.

OK ... now, with no disrespect intended, all this Asian-destination-obsessed talk leaves me with one yawning question: WHAT ABOUT FLIGHTS TO EUROPE, DUBAI, OCEANIA, AND EVEN LATIN AMERICA?

Is anyone really interested, or is it only China, Japan, Korea, Singapore and (possibly) Thailand we're interested in at YVR?

A TRULY international airport is just that. INTERNATIONAL.!!
     
     
  #2532  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2010, 6:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sacrifice333 View Post
^Don't forget Bellingham to Oakland. Can be as low as around $120 round trip on Allegiant!

(Just don't forget to travel with carry-on and get your seat at check-in.)

Transit connections from Oakland to SF are probably easier and about the same time (maybe less) than from SFO to SF.
did that - it was like $15 seat sale by the time my friend booked the tickets with all the extras it was $177 total US - was worth getting the seat check thing cause we had space for our carry ons
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  #2533  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2010, 5:04 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Delta had some really cheap DIRECT flights from SEA - KIX ( Osaka ) if anyone's interested. $600 return for that flight is a steal.

Picked up a couple myself.
     
     
  #2534  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2010, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
Not related to YVR, but I survived DEATH! More so than usual when you fly Air Canada. .
Its that kind of knee-jerk remark that leads me to dismiss people's whinging about Air Canada. I'm curious as to why you'd dismiss the Embraer E-jets as "cheap"? In my travels I much prefer the two abreast seating in Economy compared to the possibility of getting stuck in a middle seat in a 737 or Airbus
     
     
  #2535  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2010, 5:47 PM
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Its that kind of knee-jerk remark that leads me to dismiss people's whinging about Air Canada. I'm curious as to why you'd dismiss the Embraer E-jets as "cheap"? In my travels I much prefer the two abreast seating in Economy compared to the possibility of getting stuck in a middle seat in a 737 or Airbus
Because they are, in fact, cheap, at 1/3 the price of the smallest Airbus A319 and half the price of a 737.

But that was so not the point of the story.
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  #2536  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2010, 6:08 PM
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Because they are, in fact, cheap, at 1/3 the price of the smallest Airbus A319 and half the price of a 737.

But that was so not the point of the story.
But you were so not referring to them as "cheap" in the price sense then, were you?

They're nice little planes, my only beef is that they have just one washroom for the whole Economy section.
     
     
  #2537  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2010, 7:31 PM
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But you were so not referring to them as "cheap" in the price sense then, were you?

They're nice little planes, my only beef is that they have just one washroom for the whole Economy section.
I was too. Cheap little Brazilian plane.

It is a little unfair that the 6 people at the front of the plane get a nice washroom to themselves.

But take solace in the fact that when Air Canada does crash we'll be the first to feel it.
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  #2538  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2010, 12:35 AM
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Interesting post here:

http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/20...sm-vs-liberalism-whos-got-it-right/page1

I was on the fence about Emirates, but I now think that it would be good for YVR. AC's talk on their 'hub' at YVR is just that.

Quote:
The future Vancouver “hub”: a promising future?

When Canadian Airlines folded, it hurt Vancouver badly. For decades a “spheres of influence” strategy had applied, where the Vancouver-based airline was awarded the bulk of (the then less valuable) Asia Pacific routes and Air Canada dominated Europe and the rest of the world. So, predictably when Air Canada took the smaller airline over, the gravitas shifted back east. Toronto is still today the centre of the world for the Canadian flag.

This was cause for western Canada’s dissatisfaction with Ottawa and Air Canada, also opening the way for WestJet to establish and flourish locally, eventually spreading across the country. But today, even for Asian points, Toronto remains very much Canada’s hub. Vancouver is therefore a delicate issue for Air Canada. It needs to humour the airport and the local commercial interests, while recognising that its clear economic priority has to be to bed down in Toronto.

From Vancouver too, as with the eastbound routes, it is hard to see exactly how Emirates and others directly threaten Air Canada, or even its partners, heading west into Asia. The carrier has chosen to consolidate its operations on Toronto, reflecting the economics of a lower yielding Vancouver gateway and the value of focussing on a single hub. Air Canada simply doesn’t have the scale to manage two major airport hubs at this stage. So the argument against Emirates had to be more carefully constructed for Vancouver consumption.

The result was intriguing, Mr Rovinescu’s combination of a vision for a joyous future under threat, combining - without a hint of irony - a suggestion that Air Canada could “scoop up (US) travellers going elsewhere in the world and funnel them through (Vancouver)” – to adopt the CEO’s own words, used so disapprovingly against the UAE airlines.

(i) Vancouver’s endangered future: According to the Air Canada CEO, “the longer term impact (of open entry) is devastating and could have the effect of restricting or even marginalizing Vancouver as a hub. When an international carrier dumps seats into a market like Canada, it becomes harder for Canadian airlines to operate internationally. Ultimately, this translates into less economic activity, fewer jobs and fewer routes served. While its argument may be seductive, what Emirates’ strategy will do is constrain the growth of Canadian airports by turning them from hubs into stubs at the end of a spoke that leads only to Emirates’ hub in Dubai.”

This led into the next step, Vancouver’s imminent role as a transfer hub for US traffic.

(ii) “Scooping up” some US traffic: After an imaginative comparison with Vancouver’s potential to emulate Atlanta and Dallas-Fort Worth’s hub roles, Mr Rovinescu pointed out the great opportunity which might exist: “the fact remains, Vancouver has an opportunity to attract substantially more global flow traffic….I believe we can connect a lot more U.S.-Asia traffic through Vancouver. At present, we have about 34 per cent of the Canada-Asia market, so we are getting our share domestically. But of course, in North America the far, far larger market is between the U.S. and Asia, where our share is only one per cent. By winning only a couple of extra percentage points of market share on these routes we could connect a million more passengers through Vancouver’s airport, ensuring Vancouver’s hub status.”

That “only a couple of extra percentage points” is drawing a long bow, given that Air Canada currently only operates three times weekly to Beijing and four times weekly to Shanghai from Vancouver. These are to increase to daily later this year, as Air Canada is “betting significantly on the rebound of business and leisure traffic to and from Vancouver.”

There are also dailies to Hong Kong, Seoul and Tokyo.

A lot more movement will be needed to make Vancouver a compelling hub for the US – meanwhile without undermining Air Canada’s Toronto hub. What Mr Rovinescu didn’t say was that the “34 per cent of the Canada-Asia market” was heavily biased towards Toronto travel, with no clear intent to expand Vancouver’s ex-Canada share.
     
     
  #2539  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2010, 2:02 AM
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Exclamation ... it all comes home to roost ....

So,

The truth is seeping out. The attempt to pull the wool over
Vancouver's eyes didn't work out as AC had hoped. This is a critical time in the history of YVR, if it is going to grow as an international hub, or even maintain what it has.
*
How to deal with this? The first, most obvious, and logical step would be to inundate the Federal Minister of Transport, John Baird. (another Ontario lad, like his predecessor, Lawrence Cannon).
*
If he doesn't react (and he probably won't, or else he'll make up straw man excuses to protect Air Canada,) the next step is taking it to the streets.
*
How this could be done, I don't know right off the bat, but this is an economic rip-off on a grand scale, and YVR is the party being ripped off. As I've pointed out before, rather than sit back and let things take care of themselves (which they will not do under the circumstances), something has to give.
*
It's time to fight. Take the gloves off, put your heads together, get into busloads for Ottawa, raise a cloud of dust, broadcast this thing country-wide, do whatever is necessary to give it as much profile as possible.
*
Then, whatever it takes: draw your metaphorical sabres. If we don't, we'll get relegated to a spoke and nothing more.
     
     
  #2540  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2010, 2:20 PM
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Air Canada seems to have added a srcond YVR HK flight 2:05AM
     
     
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