Talk Talk Talk

[bornagainbiking]

Is it my imagination or do we spend more time & money on consultations, study and legal advice that on the actual projects.
For example the RedHill took 50 yrs and lots of money on legal roadblocks.
What we need is the projects to be designed and set up properly and normal people on the shovels who need jobs, not another suit sitting in an office.
We have to get pass built in delays, it is self-defeating.
Remember all these people (lawyers and consultants) get paid or bill by the hour. So the longer the delay (years), the longer and bigger their pesonal paycheques.
There is no incentive for them to resolve any matter quickly and no advantage to the taxpayers just higher taxes.
All we see is study and discussion. All done with uncalloused hands.
Get on with it, if we want to want to turn this city around it has to start sometime. Or long ago.
Funny during the depresion major infrastructure was done to create jobs (national parks, major buildings) Cheaper labour and companies more competative. In this big advertised infrastructure all we see is planning and talk talk talk. Action not words.....

[realcity]

No its not your imagination. We study things to death, then do nothing.

[bigguy1231]

The perception is reality in this city.

It doesn't matter what the city proposes to do, a small group of self rightous, self serving individuals always seems to be able to derail or delay the project to the detriment of this city. Inevitably it ends up costing the taxpayers millions more. Then these small groups of citizens have the nerve to come out after they have caused costs to rise and say I told you so.

It's time for the city to start fighting back. They should start going after these groups for cost over runs caused by frivilous objections. I am not saying they should be going after people with legitimate concerns, but we have to draw the line somewhere. Once the process has been played out and resonable appeals have been allowed, the costs should be passed on to the group objecting.

[SteelTown]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

It's time for the city to start fighting back. They should start going after these groups for cost over runs caused by frivilous objections. I am not saying they should be going after people with legitimate concerns, but we have to draw the line somewhere. Once the process has been played out and resonable appeals have been allowed, the costs should be passed on to the group objecting.

The City is suing a bunch of people over the Red Hill.

The real main problem is the OMB. If the city approves it and meets with staff and provincial guidelines and still someone pushes it to the OMB than the person should pay a certain fee (perhaps $1000) if he/she loses. That would help a lot especially for things like Setting Sail.

[realcity]

They were suing the Federal gov. I thought council voted to drop the case.?

[SteelTown]

Still on-going.

[realcity]

O.
Are they suing anyone else over the RedHill? Who's the bunch of people?

[SteelTown]

Don't know the full list but it's a lot such as Sheila Copps, Ministry of Environment, Justice Department, etc.

[hamtransithistory]

My Grandfather had a saying

The good thing about democracy is that everyone has a say.

The bad thing about democracy is that everyone has a say.

[realcity]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Don't know the full list but it's a lot such as Sheila Copps, Ministry of Environment, Justice Department, etc.

So in other words, all these 'bunch of people' are the Federal Gov.

Please, do you think that law suit will amount to anything? Council will give it up eventually. Or we win a settlement and the Feds will hold back grants in spite. All the same, it's tax-payers suing tax-payers. It's a lose-lose situation. The original gangsta Fiberals are not even in office now. Lots of lawyers will be happy tho.

[SteelTown]

I think they are also suing the province as well, I dunno. Bob Rae's government did stop funding for the Red Hill. Mike Harris restored the funding for both the Linc and Red Hill and Dalton kept it going for Red Hill.

Will the lawsuit amount to anything? Well it was a judge that sided with the City and against the feds for the never ending federal EA. The feds brought in Fisheries and Oceans because of fish. I think that's another department being sued. Because of that verdict and strong backing towards the City it got city staff and council the idea to sue.

My salary is not from any public funding if you really must know.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

The City is suing a bunch of people over the Red Hill.

The real main problem is the OMB. If the city approves it and meets with staff and provincial guidelines and still someone pushes it to the OMB than the person should pay a certain fee (perhaps $1000) if he/she loses. That would help a lot especially for things like Setting Sail.

I knew they were suing the feds, but they dropped the lawsuit against the Save the Valley people. That is the one lawsuit they should have pursued. That group has now morphed into CATCH.

The OMB has a provision where costs can be assessed against complainents. Some developers won a big settlement from a group up around Barrie who didn't know when to stop. It was in the millions I believe.

[bornagainbiking]

All too true. We all have a say however at what cost. Biggie mentions a group in Barrie that was sued, great idea.
Many people that have plenty of time to protest (the ones up in the trees in Redhill) were not on vacation or a leave of absence. So in some cases it would be hard to draw blood from a stone.
We need some group of common sense as who are our elected representatives listening to?
Our roads are a disgrace (Woodward) and we pay city lawyers to argue nonsense.
City Hall is coming in UNDER budget and still not good enough people complaining again. Well guess what nothing is forever as it will have to be done again in about 20 yrs. $$$$$$$$
So many priorities and so little money to go around.
Hidden agendas and special interests be damned.
Get this city on track (yeah LRT would be nice, but we have to study this to death. KING vs MAIN)
Yeah, look at Pittsburg and look at London and look at our pathetic downtown.
I think seriously that if you were to allow or encourage apartment or affordable condos real close to our GO station that with the improved rail schedule you would see people who are driving up to 2 hrs opt to live here. Maybe like people who live in other states and commute into New York or Washington every day. Hamilton with WIFI will benefit from Telecommuters. Satelite offices here....
Like NIKE Just do it

[realcity]

Eisenberger is in Pittsburgh right now. I think every year for the last 12 years we've sent councillors and/or staff and the mayor to Pittsburgh to 'study' what they are doing. Then they return and do nothing. But's a nice free trip and I'm sure they're treated to the very best steakhouse in town.

For once I'd like to see them return from the annual Pittsburgh trip and say "we going to do this and this".