Halifax Stadium Discussion

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This is certainly something that I would be interested in knowing even though I don't get to vote. Even a separate thread on SSP could be set up just for that purpose. Some information can be found by Googling the various councillor names plus stadium.

If we had a separate thread we could infom all councilors and send them a link. It may be a deterrent if they have to register to SSP as opposed to going to a webpage?

Can an excel style table be set up? Perhaps we could email all of them and ask for their response by a certain date? We can be clear that their response will be posted on the thread and if there is no response then it will show [no response].

[hfx_chris]

Since the subject of the Metro Centre (or a replacement) came up briefly, I just want to mention.. it's a fine venue. I've spent a lot of time there this week (Brier week!), and I feel the arena does need some work, but certainly does not need to be replaced! Seating capacity is just fine. The building needs some updating to things like washroom facilities and the concourse area. My biggest pet peeve of the Metro Centre though is that awful blank wall (the Duke Street side). They need to do something with that, because it's extremely unattractive in its current state. I know we've mentioned on here before that supposedly the building was constructed in such a way that the upper bowl could be expanded on that side to form a horseshoe - but I doubt that would ever happen even if it is true. Instead I think they should continue the skyboxes along that end. Some people may have complained about the boxes on the sides because they blocked views from some of the far upper bowl seats, but the existing end boxes on the Carmichael Street side block nothing.
Just thought I would share my thoughts

[worldlyhaligonian]

Do it up... I like to know where these individuals stand.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Since the subject of the Metro Centre (or a replacement) came up briefly, I just want to mention.. it's a fine venue. I've spent a lot of time there this week (Brier week!), and I feel the arena does need some work, but certainly does not need to be replaced! Seating capacity is just fine. The building needs some updating to things like washroom facilities and the concourse area. My biggest pet peeve of the Metro Centre though is that awful blank wall (the Duke Street side). They need to do something with that, because it's extremely unattractive in its current state. I know we've mentioned on here before that supposedly the building was constructed in such a way that the upper bowl could be expanded on that side to form a horseshoe - but I doubt that would ever happen even if it is true. Instead I think they should continue the skyboxes along that end. Some people may have complained about the boxes on the sides because they blocked views from some of the far upper bowl seats, but the existing end boxes on the Carmichael Street side block nothing.
Just thought I would share my thoughts

I have been following the Brier to some degree on TV (I was hoping that the Nova Scotia team would win more games). I agree that the Metro Centre is a fine venue. I was in Halifax when it was being built (and watched it being built). I was in attendance in 1978 for the CIS basketball championship between Acadia and SMU (it was a sell out).

I know what you mean regarding the blank wall. Skyboxes would be a good addition. I think that seats could be added but they would have to extend out over the sidewalk similar to the Brunswick Street seats (however I think that there would be some columns in the way). This might not look good outside the arena. I wonder if additional seats are really required. Maybe a very large mural could be painted on the blank wall. It could be sports related - maybe hockey and basketball could be shown in a painted mural.

What is your personal opinion on the side skyboxes. Is it a serious obstruction to the upper sideline seats? I am just asking out of personal interest since I am no longer in the HRM and have not seen the Metro Centre since these skyboxes were added. I have been to the old Buffalo Auditorium where the Buffalo Sabres used to play and it had overhangs that obstructed the clock but it didn't really distract from viewing the action.

I think that to recreate a new Metro Centre similar to what currently exists, it would likely cost $80 - $100 million dollars. This would bother me. That is, if a new Metro Centre is built before a new stadium. I think that the HRM should wait another 10 - 20 years and build a 15,000 plus seat arena when it is needed. By that time the Cogswell interchange might be gone and it could still be in the downtown area. Maybe in 20 years the Halifax area will need a NHL size arena, so I think that the HRM should wait and build a larger arena when needed. However, I strongly feel that the HRM should be planning a stadium right now.

[Empire]

The skyboxes along each side block the view from midway of the upper bowl to the top. If you are in the 'nosebleeds' very top row the bottom of the skyboxes is level with the top of the boards. This eliminates action high on the glass, and the clock. They have monitors showing what you can't see in real time but you may as well be out in the lobby. They should double the monitors and have every fourth monitor showing the clock only. If you are sitting up there you don't see things like time left in a penalty or shots on goal. The seats were sacrificed for the greater revenue stream of the skybox. As a result, all of the seats with an obstuucted view should be replaced with comfortable seats and have a flat fee of $10.00 for all events as nobody sits in them anyway. There was an article in the Herald yesterday about an EOI being sent out for the opening and closing ceremonies of the 2011 Winter Games. The interesting part is that it shows how great something like this event is for the community but on the other hand shows how bad it is (embarrassing-lack of leadership) that we don't have proper facilities like a stadium to host it.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

If we had a separate thread we could infom all councilors and send them a link. It may be a deterrent if they have to register to SSP as opposed to going to a webpage?

Can an excel style table be set up? Perhaps we could email all of them and ask for their response by a certain date? We can be clear that their response will be posted on the thread and if there is no response then it will show [no response].

If you set up a webpage with a comments section then you will be basically setting up a version of a forum like this one. Skyscraperpage uses the vbulletin software platform ( http://www.vbulletin.com/ ) . A free version is drupal ( http://drupal.org/ ). Both of these can be set up so that people can make comments. I think that both can be set up with or without usernames and passwords.

There are advantages and disadvantages to setting up your own webpage and comments section (forum). The main advantage is that you will be in control of the content and maintaining the site. The disadvantage is that you will be responsible for moderating the forum and making sure that there is no objectionable material posted. If you simply create a separate thread on skyscraperpage then there are already moderators who can make sure that there is no abuse by users. However, skyscraperpage could also decide to remove it at anytime. In my opinion, it would be easiest to do it through skyscraperpage. This might also attract more people to this skyscraperpage forum and maybe more importantly more people will see the information contained in the thread on politicians opinions.

There might be a way to link to an Excel Sheet from skyscraperpage. Someone123 is a moderator; you could send a private message to him to ask how that would be done. If you simply want to create an Excel sheet and then create a pdf file of it, you could then upload it to a site like imageshack and link it to this forum. However, people won't be able to enter data. There is also a way to create a poll on this forum whereby people can vote on various issues.

My son knows a lot about setting up websites if you need more information.

[haligonia]

I was at the metro centre just last night and I was in the upper bowl, but only three rows from the bottom. I had a fine view. And in regards to the blank Duke st wall, I remember that in the preliminary HRM by Design drawings there was a sketch of the 'George St Promenade', Carmichael street from grand parade to the town clock, and this included a glass facade on that side of the metro centre, perhaps if that improvement ever happens they will do the whole building. I guess that this is a bit far off, but it would definatly help the look of the structure. I would love to have a tree-lined, cobbled promenade lined with cool buildings leadind up to the clock.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by haligonia

I was at the metro centre just last night and I was in the upper bowl, but only three rows from the bottom. I had a fine view.

Midway of the upper bowl to the top is a lousy view.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I have been following the Brier to some degree on TV (I was hoping that the Nova Scotia team would win more games).

Yeah, it was disappointing, but they did win a couple good ones, including that win over Alberta that came out of nowhere (how does a team like that give up 6 points in one end!?), and their beautiful win over Saskatchewan in their last game last night.

Originally Posted by Empire

They have monitors showing what you can't see in real time but you may as well be out in the lobby. They should double the monitors and have every fourth monitor showing the clock only. If you are sitting up there you don't see things like time left in a penalty or shots on goal.

I did notice this week they seem to have LCD projectors hanging from the ceiling up there, although I didn't go up to have a look. Could they have removed the monitors and are now projecting the action on to the backside of the skyboxes?

Originally Posted by haligonia

And in regards to the blank Duke st wall, I remember that in the preliminary HRM by Design drawings there was a sketch of the 'George St Promenade', Carmichael street from grand parade to the town clock, and this included a glass facade on that side of the metro centre, perhaps if that improvement ever happens they will do the whole building.

Actually I think that would look fantastic on the Duke street side of the building. Maybe they could also build some sort of pedway over Duke so people making their way from the Scotia Square parkade don't have to block traffic every time. It could connect to that existing outside walkway above the box office.

[DigitalNinja]

I think there is an underground tunnel that leads to the metro center form scotia square

[hfx_chris]

Kind of, it leads to the WTCC, which is extrordinarily inconvenient for people going to the Metro Centre.

[haligonia]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

I did notice this week they seem to have LCD projectors hanging from the ceiling up there, although I didn't go up to have a look. Could they have removed the monitors and are now projecting the action on to the backside of the skyboxes?.

Yeah, I noticed that too when I was at the brier last night. I would have liked to see how they had the screens set up, but tim's was giving out free doughnuts.

[hfx_chris]

Hah, they were giving out free timbits in our section Tuesday night

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by planarchy

I didn't make a comment about you in the other thread, I informed you that your take on the HRMbyDesign process as some sort of conspiracy was misinformed.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but this has nothing to do with being a conspiracy theory but has to do with bitterness of watching HRM news for the past 4 decades and realizing that heritage is given top billing over pro-development and jobs. For some, this is considered to be important. I also see the importance of keeping historic sites in Halifax but I realize that Halifax is not as pro-development as locations such as Toronto, Montreal Calgary, etc. These other locations put development and jobs first at times to the detriment of having a livable city (which Halifax certainly is). However, I would like to see more of a balance so that proposing low height buildings on deserted urban sites doesn't become a priority. In my opinion, having a mix of shorter old buildings and taller new buildings makes Halifax a more interesting city.

Halifax can never be a Quebec city (since it is not French, is not as old and doesn't have as many historic buildings), but it can be a somewhat British style city on a continent of ultra modern cities (I see this as being a positive, not a negative). As long as it doesn't go too far.

[fenwick16]

This was posted in the Edmonton Sun ( http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/football/2010/03/09/13175246.html ). This is why I get so annoyed with Halifax area politicians who spent years to introduce new height controls on vacant city lots while Moncton area politicians went out and did something real for Maritime CFL fans. As opposed to driving development and jobs from the city of Halifax by Halifax area politicians, Moncton has done all it can to attract jobs to Moncton by trying to attract a national sports team to Moncton. Cheers to Monctonians.

CFL invading Moncton
By TERRY JONES, Edmonton Sun
Last Updated: March 9, 2010 9:43pm

HALIFAX — The idea of making the Canadian Football League a coast-to-coast entity has always been an appealing one to most fans from coast to coast.

But it seemed everybody else in Canada has wanted Halifax in the league more than Halifax itself.

And it’s always been Halifax. Until now.

Tuesday 309 km from here in Moncton Touchdown Atlantic touched down in a big way.

The long-awaited birth of the Maritime Schooners or Atlantic Storm isn’t going to happen in a day, but this may be the day looked back upon as the official birthday of a football franchise.

It was announced earlier this year that the league had purchased the Toronto Argos’ home game against the Edmonton Eskimos on Sept. 26. The intention was playing a first-ever CFL regular season game as a first step toward finally creating a franchise for the Maritimes.

But yesterday was the official kickoff.

“There’s unbelievable excitement here,” said Eskimos CEO Rick LeLacheur who showed up with French-speaking offensive lineman Patrick Kabongo in tow. “I’m going away pleased that we’re participating in this.

“They’re holding the IAAF World Junior track-and-field championships here this summer and expanding the stadium to 20,500 for that event and the football game makes sense,” said the man who headed the organizing committee for the Edmonton 2001 IAAF world athletics.

“They really have a big picture view of turning Moncton into the entertainment capital of Atlantic Canada. Did you know the largest Rolling Stones concert in North America was held at Magnetic Hill here?”

LeLacheur says the Eskimos, who will play the Alouettes in Montreal on the same trip, expect a very similar atmosphere for the game in the new Stade Moncton on the campus of Universite de Moncton.

“They’re going to make this like a mini-Grey Cup, blocking off streets downtown and planning Grey Cup-type events.

“The Spirit of Edmonton is looking at trying to find a way to bringing their set-up out here and the Saskatchewan Roughriders are trying to bring their Rider Pride group out as well.”

The Moncton organizers — which include former CFL executive Brent Scrimshaw, now with Atlantic Lotto — are focusing on the entire region and turning the game into an annual event leading to the establishment of a team here.

Kabongo is going to visit the legislature in Fredericton and to a function in Saint John as well. The Argos brought president Bob Nicholson and player Adriano Belli to the event, with Belli scheduled to visit Halifax Wednesday, as well.

“We met with a contingent from Prince Edward Island which wants us to hold a practice over there and have a big barbecue after the practice. The P.E.I. guys are as excited as the Moncton guys,” said LeLacheur.

Moncton makes more sense geographically if you ignore Halifax having the largest population (370,000) this side of Quebec City with Moncton a distant second at 125,000.

Moncton is 172 km to Charlottetown. Halifax is 356.
Moncton is 182 km from Fredericton. Halifax is 415.
Moncton is 152 km from Saint John. Halifax is 424.

You’ve gotta want it. And Moncton wants it.

At the press conference, Kabongo said he believes all his teammates are already excited about a very special game on the schedule.

“It’s going to be a great atmosphere to play in a football game that counts in a new and exciting setting in front of a whole new group of fans,” said Kabongo.

How many lobsters do you figure an entire Edmonton Eskimos football team might eat at a single setting?

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Not to beat a dead horse here, but this has nothing to do with being a conspiracy theory but has to do with bitterness of watching HRM news for the past 4 decades and realizing that heritage is given top billing over pro-development and jobs. For some, this is considered to be important. I also see the importance of keeping historic sites in Halifax but I realize that Halifax is not as pro-development as locations such as Toronto, Montreal Calgary, etc. These other locations put development and jobs first at times to the detriment of having a livable city (which Halifax certainly is). However, I would like to see more of a balance so that proposing low height buildings on deserted urban sites doesn't become a priority. In my opinion, having a mix of shorter old buildings and taller new buildings makes Halifax a more interesting city.

Halifax can never be a Quebec city (since it is not French, is not as old and doesn't have as many historic buildings), but it can be a somewhat British style city on a continent of ultra modern cities (I see this as being a positive, not a negative). As long as it doesn't go too far.

I think much of the problem has to do with the capacity of council to thoughtfully and critically address development scenarios as they arise. Most councillors aren't planners, architects, engineers, etc. and don't fully grasp real estate development issues. And the planning department apparently fails to convey the issues to them in a clear way. They are far too influenced by the perceptions of special interest groups and shouldn't be making a lot of these decisions. The final votes in the development process should not be councils' - it should be made by a well informed, somewhat objective planning department. Political influence in the process has to someway be reduced.

As far as HRMbyDesign goes - part of the problem is that it isn't really made for Halifax. The firm that produced it with the city, is a Toronto based firm that have produced near carbon copies for other cities, with a few changes here and there. The language used in it is hollow, and solutions proposed are just generic fixes really fail to address both the potential of Halifax, and the challenges. I still think it is an asset for the core (better than what was previously in place), but it is a deeply flawed document with little to no specifics.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This was posted in the Edmonton Sun

http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/football/2010/03/09/13175246.html

“There’s unbelievable excitement here,” said Eskimos CEO Rick LeLacheur who showed up with French-speaking offensive lineman Patrick Kabongo in tow. “I’m going away pleased that we’re participating in this.

“They’re holding the IAAF World Junior track-and-field championships here this summer and expanding the stadium to 20,500 for that event and the football game makes sense,” said the man who headed the organizing committee for the Edmonton 2001 IAAF world athletics.

“They really have a big picture view of turning Moncton into the entertainment capital of Atlantic Canada. Did you know the largest Rolling Stones concert in North America was held at Magnetic Hill here?”

LeLacheur says the Eskimos, who will play the Alouettes in Montreal on the same trip, expect a very similar atmosphere for the game in the new Stade Moncton on the campus of Universite de Moncton.

“They’re going to make this like a mini-Grey Cup, blocking off streets downtown and planning Grey Cup-type events.

“The Spirit of Edmonton is looking at trying to find a way to bringing their set-up out here and the Saskatchewan Roughriders are trying to bring their Rider Pride group out as well.”

The Moncton organizers — which include former CFL executive Brent Scrimshaw, now with Atlantic Lotto — are focusing on the entire region and turning the game into an annual event leading to the establishment of a team here.

That's the issue here -- nobody, from Mayor Doofus on down through council or other community leaders -- has articulated that kind of big-picture strategy and gone to work to make it happen. Until that happens, look for nothing to happen.

I do have to wonder why an executive from Atlantic Loto, who is a public servant in an organization that Nova Scotia helps govern, is involved in this.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by planarchy

I think much of the problem has to do with the capacity of council to thoughtfully and critically address development scenarios as they arise. Most councillors aren't planners, architects, engineers, etc. and don't fully grasp real estate development issues. And the planning department apparently fails to convey the issues to them in a clear way. They are far too influenced by the perceptions of special interest groups and shouldn't be making a lot of these decisions. The final votes in the development process should not be councils' - it should be made by a well informed, somewhat objective planning department. Political influence in the process has to someway be reduced.

As far as HRMbyDesign goes - part of the problem is that it isn't really made for Halifax. The firm that produced it with the city, is a Toronto based firm that have produced near carbon copies for other cities, with a few changes here and there. The language used in it is hollow, and solutions proposed are just generic fixes really fail to address both the potential of Halifax, and the challenges. I still think it is an asset for the core (better than what was previously in place), but it is a deeply flawed document with little to no specifics.

This time I have to agree with you totally.

As someone (I think it was DigitalNinja) pointed out Halifax has small city blocks and therefore the same formulas that will give an economical return to developers in cities with large city blocks won't give an economical return to Halifax developers. Once all the setbacks are included, the floor areas will be down to an unfeasible amount within just a few floors. Having setbacks will possibly produce more appealing designs, but it should be tailored to Halifax instead of places like Toronto or Calgary. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the city blocks in Ottawa are more in tune with the size of Halifax city blocks. Having been to Ottawa a few times, I like their downtown (however, I like urban canyons).

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That's the issue here -- nobody, from Mayor Doofus on down through council or other community leaders -- has articulated that kind of big-picture strategy and gone to work to make it happen. Until that happens, look for nothing to happen.

I do have to wonder why an executive from Atlantic Loto, who is a public servant in an organization that Nova Scotia helps govern, is involved in this.

This is what frustrates me. Instead of giving all the reasons why it can't be done in Halifax, the HRM council should be thinking of ways to make it happen.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This is what frustrates me. Instead of giving all the reasons why it can't be done in Halifax, the HRM council should be thinking of ways to make it happen.

We have a mayor with no vision, what did you expect?