Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Originally Posted by CLC

Maybe to save money, the Broadway skytrain can terminate at Alma but name the station as Alma/UBC

Arbutus/UBC sounds good too!

[dubsH]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i think skytrain to arbutus and than the bline from there is good and all that is needed for UBC or a streetcar from arbutus

If there's only going to be a streetcar to UBC, they might as well just leave the B-line. And add another B-line on 41st (an actual B-line replacing the 43).

I think instead of getting UBC to pay for its portion of the line itself, they should just increase the price of the UPass. $50-75 extra per semester will equate to $2.5-$3.75 million in revenue per year (this is excluding the summer UPass). That way, it's still relatively affordable (an extra $6-9 each month) and it will be an ongoing deal.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Again, a good middle ground is to have UBC pay for the cost to build the station(s) on its grounds. Having the university pay for the entire bill west of Blanca is a bit asinine.

I agree ^^^ they are going to be paying for a bus loop anyways, so they can foot the bill for the terminus station that integrates into their plans for redevelopment around the SUB area.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by dubsH

If there's only going to be a streetcar to UBC, they might as well just leave the B-line. And add another B-line on 41st (an actual B-line replacing the 43).

I think instead of getting UBC to pay for its portion of the line itself, they should just increase the price of the UPass. $50-75 extra per semester will equate to $2.5-$3.75 million in revenue per year (this is excluding the summer UPass). That way, it's still relatively affordable (an extra $6-9 each month) and it will be an ongoing deal.

its a stupid place for a university but thats not the point but a few b lines will do fine i think


and if in the future there is need they can than expand the skytrain to UBC

but just get it to Arbutus at least by 2015!

[racc]

A better idea would be to use road fares for everyone driving to UBC to help pay for the line. This would also encourage more people to use transit thus increasing ridership revenues.

[dubsH]

Originally Posted by racc

A better idea would be to use road fares for everyone driving to UBC to help pay for the line. This would also encourage more people to use transit thus increasing ridership revenues.

That's very idealistic, but it's not going to work. I'm not sure how much UBC drivers contribute to traffic compared to say downtown drivers (why not toll everything going into downtown too? That number surely exceeds the amount going to UBC). Force everyone onto transit. Force transit passes on all homeowners. Ban cars! But again, that's only the ideal.

Also, I think having a university on top of a mountain is "stupider" than having one at the edge of a peninsula, but both are beside the point. UBC can grow because of its location (ie not being hemmed in by development), and if it can accommodate more students, then a B-line just won't suffice. I say SkyTrain all the way or don't bother (even if it's done in stages).

[racc]

Originally Posted by dubsH

That's very idealistic, but it's not going to work. I'm not sure how much UBC drivers contribute to traffic compared to say downtown drivers (why not toll everything going into downtown too? That number surely exceeds the amount going to UBC). Force everyone onto transit. Force transit passes on all homeowners. Ban cars! But again, that's only the ideal.

Road fares to downtown are a great idea as well. In the end, they are really the only way to go. At some point, we will either stop using gas or run out of it , making gas taxes a poor option to depend on. Why use property taxes to pay for transportation. Transportation fares, fees, and taxes should be used to fund transit. Anyway, they are doing this in cities around the world so it certainly is possible.

[Zassk]

As a person who waffled between driving and taking buses to UBC for 7 years, being satisfied with neither, I strongly support the idea of a toll to drive into UBC to pay for SkyTrain.

UBC is the third biggest commuter destination in Metro. To build SkyTrain only halfway is absurd. Those who think a 5-km B-line would be fine must have never lived or attended there.

[jlousa]

I believe UBC should pay a significant portion of the line, it's not the same as saying it ends up being taxpayer money regardless. UBC has a sizable trust that it could use, and that will grow quite significantly if the line does go all the way into their land. If they want to administer a modest fee per student per semester for 10-20yrs to recoup that investment I'd have no issue with it, nor would I have no issue if they decided to raise parking fees by 25% once the line is operational to assist in recouping that investment. Don't think tolls are the way to go though.

[deasine]

UBC makes quite a load of money off of parking, to a point where it's scary how much money you have to pay to park at UBC... $1.75 per half hour to a maximum of $13. I wouldn't put road tolls, but instead, just hike up the parking rate even more and do so at those early bird day lots.

[MalcolmTucker]

Translink could just make campus another zone to help pay the translink share, which I would guess is the most likely 'special funding'.

Saying 'oh the university has money, they should pay' is pretty ass backwards - the people that commute to the university are taxpayers like anyone else - why should they pay an extra special levy? Now if the University wants a second station to support further residential development that is different.

[jlousa]

It's not backwards to expect the main beneficiary to pay towards that benefit.. The University has mutli-millions to gain in it's property trust if the line is built onto it's land. It is not illogical to expect them to help pay as it is in their benefit. The case is very similar to the YVR situation. We'll see soon enough what they have planned, but it is interesting that both UBC and UEL is involved in the process.

[Bureaucromancer]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Translink could just make campus another zone to help pay the translink share, which I would guess is the most likely 'special funding'.

That sounds like a much better option to me, maybe even make it an add fare like the airport rather than a full on zone. UBC may have the money, but they are ultimately a public institution, and to make them pay is really just an accounting game.

[Zassk]

Making UBC zone 2 is an excellent idea - but if the U-Pass stays the same as today then there will be little benefit. The U-Pass definitely needs to be renegotiated at some point. From the bits of information sprinkled around this forum, it seems that the huge UBC ridership is the main cause of the U-Pass revenue deficit, not SFU or other institutions.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Making UBC zone 2 is an excellent idea - but if the U-Pass stays the same as today then there will be little benefit. The U-Pass definitely needs to be renegotiated at some point. From the bits of information sprinkled around this forum, it seems that the huge UBC ridership is the main cause of the U-Pass revenue deficit, not SFU or other institutions.

UBC was the first to sign on to the U-Pass. If Translink realized how successful (and how popular) it was going to be, the price would likely have been higher. Then again, if it was higher, it may have been more difficult to pass through the Student Union.

The whole point of the U-Pass is that non-transit users subsidize regular transit users. It was meant to be revenue neutral.

The explosion in new users and success of the program ( the amount of mode-shift ) warrants an increase.

Ideally, a U-Pass program should be region wide, based on a fixed discount program, like the employer-pass program.

When the fares increase this year, will U-Pass rates stay the same?

As for the Zone 2 idea, it sounds like too much work. All students who are full-time only pay one-zone anyhow. You'd only be increasing costs for part-timers and instructors and residents. Not so sure that's the solution.

[MalcolmTucker]

Too much work? It is a line on the map, and change in a line of code of the tap in tap out system.

As for only increasing the costs for non-u passers, presumably you would calculate the 2 zone fare into the cost calculations when renegotiating the U-Pass, which I assume comes up for renewal every once in a while (unless Translink really messed up). I know Calgary's comes up for renewal every 3 or 4 years.

[Zassk]

The U-Pass must be a huge headache for everyone involved, and a classic case of poor foresight. From a revenue point of view, we can say "we never wanted U-Pass to grow ridership to this extent". But from a green city point of view, it is excellent that so many students want to use transit, and we should provide further stimulus. We can surmise that if the transit was made more efficient, then even more students would convert to it.

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by Zassk

The U-Pass must be a huge headache for everyone involved, and a classic case of poor foresight. From a revenue point of view, we can say "we never wanted U-Pass to grow ridership to this extent". But from a green city point of view, it is excellent that so many students want to use transit, and we should provide further stimulus. We can surmise that if the transit was made more efficient, then even more students would convert to it.

The U Pass does have more benefits that no one mentions. Studies have shown that the U Pass has lead to greater use of public transporation post graduation. So in fact the graduated students subsidize the ones in university.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

The U Pass does have more benefits that no one mentions. Studies have shown that the U Pass has lead to greater use of public transporation post graduation. So in fact the graduated students subsidize the ones in university.

Well, Translink/taxpayers subsidize every transit rider. To what degree is the question. I think there's plenty of justification to increase the U-Pass price. Is it the same across all institutions? How about a $10/month price increase for UBC when they get rapid transit? Ditto Douglas College in Coquitlam, etc.

[DKaz]

But New Westminster campus which accounts for maybe 75% of the classes already has Skytrain. Coquitlam campus is just a blip in comparison.

If Skytrain ever got extended into Maple Ridge, that campus (which has very few classes but it's still there) will also be connected.