Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[mr.x]

I just skimmed over several pages of this topic...why are there suggestions that we build streetcar AND SkyTrain for the Broadway corridor? That's so ridiculously absurd, that's like being the polar opposite of zweisytem. SkyTrain and a frequent 9 trolley will be PLENTY PLENTY PLENTY for decades to come. SkyTrain could take in a gazillion riders easily, while a beefed up 9 trolley could probably accommodate up to 40,000 riders per day (and the 9 won't reach this figure for a long, long time with SkyTrain stations paralleling its major stops).

Build both streetcar and SkyTrain on the Broadway corridor and municipalities like Surrey will throw a massive fit, and rightly so, to the extent of possibly even leaving Translink and forming its own regional transit agency for the south of Fraser.


SkyTrain is enough. (Look at the size of my period. Do you all like it?) And to top that off, while a SkyTrain extension all the way to UBC is the ultimate goal any phase 1 SkyTrain extension needs to be completed to Arbutus, NOT to Cambie only.

[NetMapel]

Seriously. By the time that area got enough demand for such heavy public transit, we will have flying cars. No need to build street cars then because we'll be all cruisiiiiing !

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

Seriously. By the time that area got enough demand for such heavy public transit, we will have flying cars. No need to build street cars then because we'll be all cruisiiiiing !

lolll...air traffic control will be quite interesting.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

Seriously. By the time that area got enough demand for such heavy public transit, we will have flying cars. No need to build street cars then because we'll be all cruisiiiiing !

Why do I get the feeling this would be a disaster.

People can't even handle 2-D driving. 3-D driving would be beyond most people.

[GeeCee]

I doubt we'll still be driving ourselves 20 years down the road, on the ground or in the air for that matter. Autopilot!

[mr.x]

Who needs to drive when you can teleport?

[GeeCee]

Pff, teleporting is at least.. 30 years away.

[cabotp]

Actually I'd prefer time travel and teleporting.

That way I can leave for work after I'm supposed to start.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Actually I'd prefer time travel and teleporting.

That way I can leave for work after I'm supposed to start.

Forget time travel and teleporting, I want the capability to stop time so that I can do whatever I want....but then to someone I know, I could be 20 years old and then reappear as 60 years old a second later.

What are we discussing again?

[cabotp]

Uh


Oh how street car is so much more superior than Skytrain.




(I'm being sarcastic)

[GeeCee]

I heard that a Mk.II can travel through time once it hits 88mph..

(the flux capacitor is built into the route map lighting system)

[mr.x]

Unbelievable: http://ilind.net/2010/03/03/responses-show-rail-a-very-hot-topic/



Zweisystem // Mar 4, 2010 at 9:26 am

I see my good friends Voony and Mezzanine are posting, just to let friends in Hawaii know, they are professional SkyTrain shills, that either work for the BC government or TransLink.

The try to pervert our transit issues to always end in a pro SkyTrain stance. Much of what they say is to taken with a grain of salt here as locals know well their questionable ways.

Vancouver’s SkyTrain is big business and the huge monies spent on the metro are filtered down to many government friends working in the engineering, planning, construction fields, thus is one reason why we continually build with this thing. SkyTrain is a massive Pork Barrel, for friends of the government.

As for Zweisystem, we are trying to promote an economical ‘rail’ solution for the Fraser Valley, by reinstating an old interurban line. SkyTrain with costs starting at about $100 million/km. (approx USD$135 million/mile), is extremely expensive and unworkable for the over 90 km. (about 60 miles) distance.

Just do the math!

Rail for the Valley, promoting economic transit, has engaged consultants to independently find economic ‘rail’ solutions for regional public transit.

We are promoting a Diesel LRT Vancouver to Chilliwack LRT service, using existing railways lines, with costs ranging from $3.5 million/km. to $5.5 million/km. Compare this with SkyTrain with costs exceeding $100 million/km.!

All the information in the Debunking SkyTrain series come from established transit consultants, planners, and academia. Facts pertaining to LRT come from revenue operation on various light rail lines around the world. There is no disinformation as claimed by Voony (most likely a government PAB) as most info on LRT is available in the public domain.

The problem with SkyTrain in Vancouver, it has bankrupted the transit system and TransLink is on life support.

One can build with all the elevated metro one wants, but there is a price to be paid for operation and the fewer customers for a metro, the higher the subsidies.

What I have seen and read about your project is that the taxpayer had better be prepared for a tax shock to pay for your metro.

I will leave you with this gem by noted American transit specialist Gerald Fox about Vancouver’s SkyTrain Evergreen Line.






Zweisystem // Mar 4, 2010 at 9:38 am

Quote:

“As a Vancouver, I’m familiar with that ‘Canadian group critical of Vancouver’s SkyTrain’. Unfortunately, they tend to compare people with different opinions to Joeseph Goebbels.”

Did no such thing, Mezzaine and you’re telling ever bigger fibs and I am very sad you carry your questionable tactics here. All I was alluding to is that you tell a lie enough times, people tend to believe it is fact and when the state does it and you disagree, you become an enemy of the state.

Here lies the modus operandi of the SkyTrain Lobby: repeat half truths, untruths and pure lies often enough, people will believe you and steam roll over anyone who doesn’t beleive you! <insert mirror>

If anyone has cared to read what I have said, if ridership on a transit line exceeds 15,000 pphpd, a case can be made for a metro! Even in Vancouver TransLink found it too expensive to build with SkyTrain and built with a generic metro instead on the RAV/Canada line. Both RAV and the Canada Line are incompatible with each other and can’t operate on each others tracks!

What the SkyTrain lobby rejects is an honest and truthful debate between LRT and SkyTrain, where this has happened, SkyTrain lost.







This CLOWN deserves a big shiner. And he needs to be rebutted every single time he posts. While most local government officials are wise enough to not listen to any of this nonsense, the local public here in Vancouver and elsewhere are not.

[cabotp]

Of course by local people in Vancouver.

You are not including me or you or the few other people who know he is a liar.

[Millennium2002]

Funny thing is, he also rejects a "fair and honest debate" between LRT and SkyTrain because the LRT option would lose as well on some points.

In the end, there needs to be mix based on current and potential demand for the line. Forcing people to go one way or the other purely on cost is just idiotic.

[cabotp]

Exactly

We are about 20-25 years behind in terms of train lines being built. We should of had the Canada Line done by the early to mid 90's. The Millennium Line and Evergreen line should have been done already. The Broadway line should have already been started and almost finished by now.

There should have been LRT lines built in various locations already.

But people don't want to pay taxes or tolls and want everything cheap. And some people in certain areas of Vancouver (cough west side) Are such big nimbys. Well this is what we get.

[mr.x]

What's the difference between Glenn Beck and Zweisystem?


BECK:

"OBAMA IS GOING TO KILL YOU WITH STALINIST AND NAZI HEALTHCARE! THERE WILL BE DEATH PANELS THAT WILL KILL YOUR GRANDMA! I am so scared for where our country is heading towards! OBAMA ALSO HATES WHITE PEOPLE! He is a racist!"



ZWEISYSTEM:

"YOU'RE ALL LIARS! AN ENEMY OF THE STATE! YOU MUST BE STOPPED! THE SKYTRAIN LOBBY ARE USING NAZI TACTICS! DO NOT LISTEN TO THE SKYTRAIN LOBBY, THEY WORK FOR GOVERNMENT AND BOMBARDIER! THEY WILL LIE AND LIE AGAIN UNTIL THEIR LIES BECOME A COMMON TRUTH! THEY MUST BE STOPPED!"

"P.S. YOU MUST VISIT MY BLOG FOR MORE INFO!!!!!!!!"



Really though, Zwei is using the tactics being used by Fox News. He's doing exactly what he has accused of us doing, that we "lie" until our "lies" become the common truth and at the same time he's writing it all in a very smug, high and mighty arrogant manner very much like Bill O'Reilly....has anyone watched the recent Jon Stewart interview on Bill O'Reilly? We're all Jon Stewart in this train fight.



Zwei knows exactly what 's doing and he is quite self-conscious about destroying his region just so that he can get an insignificant LRT/commuter rail in his backyard. He will try to scorch everything in his way to get what he wants.



And as for accusing us of "telling lies until our lies become the common truth," that's quite ingenious and crafty of him when that's actually his game plan for trying to "win".

Here's a very extreme and fun way of putting it in another way...aliens want to take over Earth, but they don't want humans to expect it so that they can take over the planet quickly. So they send alien humanoids to direct alien films so that we'd least expect such invasion plans from extra terrestrials or even the existence of aliens....movies they have made to "fool" us include Independence Day, Men In Black, Monsters vs. Aliens, Signs, Transformers, X-Files, War of the Worlds, etc.

[red-paladin]

I agree with Mr. X.
Why isn't this debate over?
If skytrain wasn't good enough for Evergreen Line, it's not good enough for Broadway!

[cabotp]

While I do agree, why isn't this debate over.

The bigger question is how do you end a debate. Sure a debate ends when no one is listening. But there will always be someone listening.

I can't stop someone from reading what zwei says and believing what he says. All I can do or anyone else can do is respond as best as we can to his lies.


Although it would be nice to pack zwei up in a box and ship him to one of the poles.

[Millennium2002]

From my liberal (as in open, not Liberal Party) point of view, debates are generally healthy if they lead to progress.

Of course certainly this debate is probably not a healthy one, but from a more conservative viewpoint, like the one Zwei probably has, this is probably a good thing.

I sort of wish we had enough money to spend on building everything at the same time.... then everyone would be happy and few would be complaining. Unfortunately, we don't have this sort of income. = (

[cabotp]

Well for some weird reason and don't ask me why. I do feel that the powers that be. Those that do the studies on what would be a good technology. Won't be swayed away from using Skytrain on the Evergreen. They will also most likely choose Skytrain for the Broadway Line.

Like I said don't ask me why, but this is my gut instinct. And I usually like what my gut says