Salt Lake:Official development news thread - Part 2

[scottharding]

It seems pretty unwise to me to not have a plan for the Trolley, and even more unwise to for those handling the develpment to be so unconcerned about it. Their whole aim to this redevelopment is to convince people that there's a reason to go to Trolley Square, that it's special in some way, not just another shopping mall. This speaks to the contrary.

[cololi]

There is a plan for the trolley car. The city approved locating to the west side. Now the owners may want to put it somewhere else, they just have not decided where. This article is kind of misleading.

[UTPlanner]

I'm just going to miss their wings! They were great.

[WASDEN]

Originally Posted by scottharding

It seems pretty unwise to me to not have a plan for the Trolley, and even more unwise to for those handling the develpment to be so unconcerned about it. Their whole aim to this redevelopment is to convince people that there's a reason to go to Trolley Square, that it's special in some way, not just another shopping mall. This speaks to the contrary.

I agree Scott. I don't think these owners understand their own development or its customers. This reminds me a lot of the Sugarhouse fiasco. Take away the very things that make the place unique, and suddenly theres really no reason to go there over any other generic shopping experience.

[urbanboy]

It seems as though this might have been a better goal for Trolley Square:

[arkhitektor]

I like the layout, but I'm not sure if such a high-end market is the niche that trolley square should be going for. Come to think of it, I'm not sure what niche Trolley Square should be trying to fill, but I think they're off the mark with many of the recent changes. They seemed to have had a good thing going until the shooting and the new owners attempts to improve the place.

If they get rid of the trolley, they may as well just change the name to "Generic Shopping Center"

[TonyAnderson]

If anything it's a generic urban shopping center. I think it could fit in pretty well as being a neighborhood type of area, having retail, a grocery store, restaurants, etc.

[scottharding]

Yes, I feel the mistake is trying to keep Trolley Square as exclusively a shopping center. My feeling is that this redevelopment has, for the most part, ignored what makes Trolley Square unique. Just adding skylights and more retail space does not make it anymore appealing.

[jtrent77]

I always thought of Trolley Square as the unique mall with the shops that are just a bit different than others. I think if they are to succeed they should set themselves apart in that way. To put in any of the large department stores would completely ruin my feelings for Trolley--not saying it wouldn't be successful, but my image of it would be very different if it were to add even more "run of the mill" stores (whether they be run of the mill in Utah or not).

[arkhitektor]

I think I'd like to see them try and become less of a regional destination and more of a neighborhood center. A place where people who live on the east side of downtown eat and shop. Like much of what is along 400 S. now, but not in a suburban-style strip mall. Adding a grocery store is probably a good step. It would also be nice to have a movie theater there again.

[scottharding]

I think it should be less about stores. Yes, unique botique-like shops are good. But just throwing the big grocery store (which does not fit the motif of the place in anyway) on the the lot will not help drum up business. I think they should be capitalizing on the place as a landmark and icon. The only good thing that has happened there in recent years is Wise Guys comedy club coming. I think that's the sort of thing that will make Trolley attractive. Attractions. Not shopping. Wise Guys, Green Street. The Movie theaters that are there could have been converted to more live performance space. If Trolley were a place known for entertainment, particularly local music and comedy, it would be awesome, because downtown doesn't really have anything quite like that right now.
That's all just my opinion on how Trolley could be best untilized though. I realize developers don't often think that way.

[Future Mayor]

I agree 100% with making Trolley a neighborhood shopping destination. To be the focal point of the neighborhood. 9th and 9th is a definable neighborhood, and Trolley can become a definable neighborhood as well.

In order for Trolley to become a more definable center piece of a neighborhood and a neighborhood shopping center there needs to be the additional of substantial density in the area. There is not nearly enough residents in the immediate area to support a center of that size as just a neighborhood shopping center. There needs to be some higher density housing on the surrounding streets, creating a walkable neighborhood with Trolley Square at the center of it.

[cololi]

I may be the lone dissenter on here, but I think Trolley will be better off after the redevelopment happens. I admit I am biased due to my involvement with the project, but that also means I was exposed to the condition of the property prior to the current owners purchasing it from Simon. At the time, several locally owned establishments were actively seeking new locations. Pottery Barn was also looking for a new location in a mall to the south. That Pottery Barn is the second highest producing sales store in the companies portfolio right now. Not bad for a building that was 1/3 vacant for the last 7-8 years.

Instead, the current owners worked with many of those tenants to keep them in place, including the pub, tabula rasa, and a couple others. The importance of Whole Foods is that a high percentage of their customers are likely to shop in boutique style establishments, which Trolley will continue to try to provide. Many of the long standing local boutique stores (JMR, Chalk Garden) and restaurants (Ferrentelli, EIBO's) left Trolley due to their old owners. I think bringing in department stores would be a huge mistake.

I think the whole foods building should have been smaller. At the same time I can't think of a single urban design principle that supports a surface parking lot on a corner. I think the building is decent. I think it honors the historic architecture by not copying it but also not detracting from it or trying to overpower it with a more modern design. It is always beneficial with an adaptive reuse of a historic property that allows it to continued to be a destination for the community instead of a run down (or worse, vacant) property. The Trolley car will find a new place, either on the trolley block or across 600 South.The Sand House will be rebuilt where it is closer to the street and more visible.

[urbanboy]

I think the areas highlighted with yellow would be ideal spots for high density residential development:

[TonyAnderson]

I think a mixture of what everyone is saying would work well - a neighborhood area, mixed with some exclusive attractions and venues that could draw people who aren't in the neighborhood. I think it fits a neighborhood shopping destination because it's already urban in nature and fits well with its surroundings. The grocery store should help. It's also close to a trax stop and the density isn't too bad around there considering it is in the central city area.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

I think the areas highlighted with yellow would be ideal spots for high density residential development:

I think you could create some nice row homes on the block to the south and connect them from 600 S to Sego Lily and Ely PL. I think there are even more redevelopment opportunities on the surrounding blocks than you indicated.

[urbanboy]

Could Mitt Romney actually hurt Salt Lake City's chances of being awarded the GOP convention?

GOP convention in SLC? Mitt praises city, but isn't taking sides

By Thomas Burr
The Salt Lake Tribune



Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney has a laugh as he waits to address a luncheon at the National Press Club in Washington, Friday, March 5, 2010. (Susan Walsh / The Associated Press)
Washington » Former -- and potentially future -- presidential candidate Mitt Romney isn't weighing in on where the Republicans should hold their next national convention.
Romney told The Salt Lake Tribune on Friday that he believes all three cities vying for the 2012 gathering -- Salt Lake City, Tampa and Phoenix -- are "terrific" cities but that he's not going to give a preference.
"I remember what an extraordinary host Salt Lake was for the 2002 Winter Games," Romney said, "but one thing I will stay a mile away from is any discussion of which city should be the host for the convention."
Romney, who was heralded for turning around the scandal-plagued 2002 Olympics, made an unsuccessful bid for the White House in 2008 and is seen as a potential front-runner if he decides to try again.
Some observers have raised concerns that, if Romney is chosen as the Republican nominee in 2012, a convention in Salt Lake City, headquarters of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, would put too much emphasis on his Mormon religion.
Some evangelical Christians do not consider Mormons to be true Christians, a point that may have cost him votes in his presidential run.
Officials from the GOP's site-selection committee are expected to be in Salt Lake City in early April to tour facilities. i [email protected]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14520637?source=rss

[Justnslcsugarhood.]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14436948

The magazine credited Salt Lake City's commuting experience partly on the investment in transit. It also highlighted the 44 miles of car-pool lanes and the 20 percent of commuters who get to work by car-pooling, riding TRAX, walking, busing or biking.

[Sight-Seer]

I'm all for preserving historic structures and stuff, but Trolley Square has an echoing museum-like atmosphere which is a problem. It isn't attractive to shoppers. At least it has trouble competing with the Gateway, CCC, and others. Somebody needs to make some drastic changes and try something that hasn't been done before. I had some thoughts on the subject. Maybe what they should do is balance the ancient structure with something totally opposite. Go Jetsons inside and use lots of color and chrome on the fixtures and store fronts (while keeping the priceless antique structure). Put in some floating sofas and kiosks, furniture with pointy legs. Soften all the metal with some padded vinyl. Turn the lighting up until it hurts the eyes. Get Apple and Atari in there. Make it say "This place is fun and high-tech" and not "old and dead".

[UTvision]

Mormon leaders and Salt Lake City work together to transform land

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700014610/LDS-SL-work-to-transform-land.html

"This summer or fall, the city is expected to begin discussions on a master plan for the Northwest Quadrant, where the church owns nearly 5,000 acres, much of which was once a welfare farm. Working with city officials and environmentalists, the church plans to clean up the two landfills in the area (at a cost to the church of $180 million) and hopes to help restore the natural flow of the Jordan River, and in so doing, re-create a wetlands and bird refuge known as Bailey's Lake. And once the property is ready, the church will step out of the way and let someone else develop it, as it has done with other projects."


Picture from Deseret News