Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[DKaz]

The numbe of people who will take SKytrain instead of WCE is going to be very small. In Tri-Cities, it's $161 for a WCE pass vs. $136 for a 3 zone pass.

Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows WCE pass is $195, they could save $83.50 by transferring at Coquitlam to skytrain ($121.50 for a PMR to TRI WCE pass), and Mission passengers can save about $108 for the same thing ($269 for a MIS to WTR pass vs. $161 for a MIS to TRI pass), in all honesty though I don't expect this to happen much either as to most of the passengers, time is more important than saving a few bucks...

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think if you want to see high ridership on the Evergreen line you need to have a few more stations near the end of the line.

In my opinion, the most obvious way to increase the ridership of Evergreen line is to spend the extra $200m right now to build the spur to PoCo on opening day. But that would eliminate a potential election carrot that could be used later to get votes.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The numbe of people who will take SKytrain instead of WCE is going to be very small. In Tri-Cities, it's $161 for a WCE pass vs. $136 for a 3 zone pass.

Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows WCE pass is $195, they could save $83.50 by transferring at Coquitlam to skytrain ($121.50 for a PMR to TRI WCE pass), and Mission passengers can save about $108 for the same thing ($269 for a MIS to WTR pass vs. $161 for a MIS to TRI pass), in all honesty though I don't expect this to happen much either as to most of the passengers, time is more important than saving a few bucks...

Not to mention that if you are a tri-city - Downtown Vancouver commuter, then you're better off taking the WCE over skytrain anyway.

Assuming trip-start at Coquitlam Station in 2014
WCE = a 25 minute, smooth, business-class ride with laptop plugins.

Skytrain == 12 minutes to Lougheed, Transfer, 20 minutes to Commercial, transfer, fight expo-line crowds, 7-8 more minutes to downtown.
Nearly 40 minutes travel time (still awesome!), plus transfers, but now you're standing-room only, etc. This obviously would be cut down a bit if the
E-line is merged into the M-line and continues as a one-seat ride.

I guess the choice is with the user, but I would opt to pay the extra bucks for the WCE.

[Zassk]

^ There will be no transfer at Lougheed. The only transfer will be at either Commercial or (eventually) City Hall. But otherwise, your analysis is correct. It's a long haul from Coq to downtown.

[mr.x]

Budget cash for new SkyTrain line gives little comfort

[IMG]http://media.bclocalnews.com/images/400*221/15094BCLN2007EvergreenLinePinetreerendering-web.jpg[/IMG]

By Jeff Nagel - BC Local News

Published: March 03, 2010 12:00 PM
Updated: March 03, 2010 12:27 PM

0 Comments

The province's 2010 budget commitment to spend $302 million on the Evergreen Line from Burnaby to Coquitlam over the next three years still gives no certainty the project will actually proceed.

Finance minister Colin Hansen said in his budget speech construction on the $1.4-billion SkyTrain line is expected to start in 2011.

Provincial and federal officials up to the premier and prime minister have also vowed the rapid transit line is a go.

But TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said the transportation authority still has no identified funding source to support its expected $400-million share of the cost, which would work out to $40 million per year in debt payments going forward.

Ottawa and Victoria have pledged a combined $827 million, but there's also still a shortfall of close to $200 million.

"Our first priority is to maintain service that exists and to keep the current system in a state of good repair," Hardie said.

He said TransLink was only able to provide as much transit service as it did during the Olympics because its vehicles and lines were well maintained and incurred very few breakdowns.

"We don't want to sacrifice that going forward," he said.

Port Moody Mayor Joe Trasolini, vice-chair of the mayors' council on transportation, is also concerned about where TransLink will get its share.

Transportation minister Shirley Bond has suggested a redraft of TransLink's legislation this spring may provide more room.

But Trasolini fears the province may arbitrarily box the region into building and funding the line through a mechanism of Victoria's choice, rather than through a consensus with TransLink and area mayors.

"That would be one of the worst solutions," he said, particularly if it fails to provide funding for other expansions, including extending rapid transit lines in Surrey and along Broadway to UBC.

"An Evergreen Line-only solution is no solution at all because then we'll be doing the same thing over and over," Trasolini said.

Mayors insist property taxes are maxed out and that other sources, potentially a share of the carbon tax or the imposition of road pricing, need to be considered.

"I think road pricing needs to be part of the overall mix," Trasolini said.

Motorists parked their cars and took transit in record numbers during the Olympics, a shift driven by road and parking restrictions coupled with high-frequency transit service.

For critics who doubted such measures could work or that Metro Vancouverites could be pried out of their cars, Trasolini said, "the Olympics were the proof."

The mayors council last year approved a $130-million increase in taxes and fares to fund TransLink, but that money simply stabilized the system, which faced a big operating deficit due to the construction of the Canada Line and the purchases of hundreds more buses in recent years.

Mayors would get another vote on any new proposal from TransLink to raise more revenue.

The budget also notes the early success of the Canada Line, which is carrying 30 per cent more passengers than expected so far – a ridership level not anticipated until 2013.

The budget includes provincial contributions to fare gates on the SkyTrain system and TransLink's plan to bring in a smart card payment system.









Evergreen time line

Canwest News ServiceMarch 4, 2010

- 1989: "We're being treated like lepers. To completely ignore us like this is really sad," fumes Port Coquitlam Mayor Len Traboulay after the northeast is "left out" of Premier Bill Vander Zalm's plans to extend SkyTrain.

- 1993: The northeast sector should be at the front of the line when it comes to an improved transit system, says Finance Minister Glen Clark.

- 2004: "It appears there's finally some relief in sight for the northeast sector. We're within striking range of getting light rail," says Port Coquitlam Mayor Scott Young.

- 2007: B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell says that the Evergreen Line will be built with SkyTrain.

- 2008: "Frankly, there's been way too much talk about this project and not enough on the delivery side," says Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon.

- 2008: "It's finally happening," says a jubilant Coquitlam Mayor, Maxine Wilson.
© Copyright (c) The Province

[GeeCee]

It's been the case for a while where I've begun to dread this thread being posted in. When I see it having recently activity I cringe at the thought that it may have been pushed back officially yet again. Well, anymore than the most recent delay to next year.

[SpongeG]

I can't imagine that many riders - those needing to get downtown will continue to use the westcoast express

its still faster to drive from coquitlam centre to guildford in surrey/langley areas

but a new line is better than nothing i guess

I don't think the tri-cities has grown to expectations and is probably slower than they envision

[Millennium2002]

It might be growing slower because the train hasn't come by yet despite all the promises.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I can't imagine that many riders - those needing to get downtown will continue to use the westcoast express

its still faster to drive from coquitlam centre to guildford in surrey/langley areas

but a new line is better than nothing i guess

I don't think the tri-cities has grown to expectations and is probably slower than they envision

I won't be surprised to find some people using Evergreen to 'reverse commute' from Burquitlam Stn and Port Moody Stn to Coq. Central to grab the WCE into Vancouver. It will cost more to have two monthly passes (TransLink and WCE) but if you can shave 20+ minutes off your commute and also avoid the Broadway/Commercial transfer, some people will pay extra for that convenience.

[Distill3d]

I'm too impatient to go through the entire thread, so I offer my apologies to asking this if its been discussed, but where is the storage facility for the trains projected to be built?

[touraccuracy]

^they wouldn't need to go to coq., wce stops in pomo too.

[nname]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

I won't be surprised to find some people using Evergreen to 'reverse commute' from Burquitlam Stn and Port Moody Stn to Coq. Central to grab the WCE into Vancouver. It will cost more to have two monthly passes (TransLink and WCE) but if you can shave 20+ minutes off your commute and also avoid the Broadway/Commercial transfer, some people will pay extra for that convenience.

WCE monthly passes can be used on all translink services. Even for one way trip, all bus passes count as a 1 zone fare credit on WCE, and all WCE pass can be used on all translink service for up to 3 hours.

Here's some loophole in this fare structure.. that.. might be quite useful after Evergreen Line which makes the WCE more "accessible":

A trip on WCE from Tri-cities to Waterfront cost $6.75, but if you validate a faresaver beforehand (hint: the ticket validator in skytrain station) and purchase an add-fare on WCE, it only cost you $1.90 + $4.25 = $6.15. A round-trip using the method above will only cost $12.30, compared to the round-trip ticket of $12.50. If you want cheap daypass, then validate a 1-zone faresaver, and then purchase a 1 zone return fare on WCE. The total cost is $1.90 + $7.00 = $8.90, and you save 10 cents!

Add-fare ticket expires 3 hours after you purchase the add-fare, not when you initially purchase or validate the bus pass. So this means that with an add-fare, the actual maximum time you can use the ticket is 4.5 hours!

Now this is the best part. If someone want to do a 3-zones round-trip within the 4.5 hours, he can just buy a 1 zone WCE ticket with an add-fare. With a fare saver, it only cost $1.90 + $2.50 = $4.40. MUCH cheaper than 2x or 3x 3-zones tickets ($7.60 to $15) or a daypass ($9).

Now... who wants to make a 10min detour on Evergreen Line to "upgrade" and "extend" their transit pass?

And actually, after Evergreen Line is built, it is 10min faster to take the WCE to go downtown even for people who live near Lougheed mall.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I can't imagine that many riders - those needing to get downtown will continue to use the westcoast express

its still faster to drive from coquitlam centre to guildford in surrey/langley areas

but a new line is better than nothing i guess

I don't think the tri-cities has grown to expectations and is probably slower than they envision

By assuming that people who work downtown will take the WCE. That they must be working 9-5. While some do. A lot don't

The biggest ridership you would gain on the Evergreen line are those people who do not work 9-5. Also those people who actually reverse commute and work out in the tri-cities area.

Also any bus route that goes into downtown from the tri-cities would be cancelled. So you have all those riders. What ever they may be, as I do not know the numbers for them.

[nname]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Also any bus route that goes into downtown from the tri-cities would be cancelled. So you have all those riders. What ever they may be, as I do not know the numbers for them.

Not a lot. The 160 and 190 are the only two that goes downtown now (and they are the only 3-zone bus routes in the system now). The total ridership would be less than 5000 riders a day. About 15 years ago, the 150, 151, 152, 154, 155, 156, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 170, 190, 701 were all going to downtown.....

[Distill3d]

^yes, but most of those bus routes were re-routed M-Line stations, so having two buses run downtown isn't really a "service reduction".

[nname]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

^yes, but most of those bus routes were re-routed M-Line stations.

No, the 16x family were dead when they introduced WCE in 1995. A few years later, the 15x family is killed by the 99 B-Line. And the 701.. I don't really know what happened to it. The people in Delta and White Rock should be feeling lucky that they were not forced to crammed into the 98 B-Line 8 years ago...

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by nname

Not a lot. The 160 and 190 are the only two that goes downtown now (and they are the only 3-zone bus routes in the system now). The total ridership would be less than 5000 riders a day. About 15 years ago, the 150, 151, 152, 154, 155, 156, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 170, 190, 701 were all going to downtown.....

Doesn't the 159 also go downtown?

I know it starts at poco. So most likely it would just go to the Evergreen line and turn around.

Also routes like they 160,190,159. Those buses could be used to provide better service where needed.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by nname

No, the 16x family were dead when they introduced WCE in 1995. A few years later, the 15x family is killed by the 99 B-Line. And the 701.. I don't really know what happened to it. The people in Delta and White Rock should be feeling lucky that they were not forced to crammed into the 98 B-Line 8 years ago...

Ahh...see, of the bus routes you've mentioned, most of the 15x are in existence today going to M-Line stations. The 16x seem to be dead, save for the 160 and the 169. The 701? Doesn't that go from Coquitlam Station to Haney/Maple Ridge?

Either way, I wouldn't say that there is a service reduction in getting rid of the bus routes going downtown when a more express option is available.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Mininari

Skytrain == 12 minutes to Lougheed, Transfer, 20 minutes to Commercial, transfer, fight expo-line crowds, 7-8 more minutes to downtown.
Nearly 40 minutes travel time (still awesome!), plus transfers, but now you're standing-room only, etc. This obviously would be cut down a bit if the
E-line is merged into the M-line and continues as a one-seat ride.

Lougheed to Waterfront alone can be 33 to 38 minutes due to the transfer. Add 14 minutes to Coquitlam and that's double West Coast Express

[Zassk]

^ That assumes a WCE train happens to be leaving at just the right time for you... frequency is what kills the WCE choice.