YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[MalcolmTucker]

Open skies is just that - open. No preference, no horse trading.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Open skies is just that - open. No preference, no horse trading.

Am I correct? If, (on the off-chance), Ottawa does allow Emirates here at YVR, if Lufthansa feels sore about it, they'll just have to get used to being sore.

Lufthansa and AC are currently Star Alliance partners, hence the "conflict of interest" if you will.

As such, could the decision still sway toward Lufthansa: no Emirates. Does that mean Ottawa (air canada) still bear to Luftansa's displeasure / or be "gutsy" ifthat's possible for Ottawa)) and allow them (Emir§) in anyway?

That's the part I'd like to know.

[MalcolmTucker]

We have open skies with europe (in the implementation phase right now, the deal is signed), not UAE. So we can't horse trade things to and from Europe, since they already have full access.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

We have open skies with europe (in the implementation phase right now, the deal is signed), not UAE. So we can't horse trade things to and from Europe, since they already have full access.

I think LH fears a decline in YVR -FRA traffic if Emirates is allowed anyway.
Can any of this explain away the reluctance of the fed to allow Emirates to YVR and CGY. Are the feds bending to European and / Star Alliance pressure now?

In other words: WHAT'S THEIR MOTIVE?

[trofirhen]

Regarding the Emirates Battle, I was advised by a magazine staff member to look at the article this week In Business in Vancouver. (biv.com)

So I went to the site, found the headline to the article, but when I tried to downlaod it, was informed that I had to have a magazine substriction to read
it.

Protection of intellectual property. Understandable.

Anyway, thought any interested people might have this article. Thank you.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

...Having Emirates at YVR, (and anyone else who wants to start scheduled service), creates, as we know, hundreds of man-hours of work...

How exactly? An business Emirates gets will be poached from existing carriers already employing Canadians at YVR. Its not as if there will be a huge new market of Emirati who were dying to visit Vancouver.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by whatnext

How exactly? An business Emirates gets will be poached from existing carriers already employing Canadians at YVR. Its not as if there will be a huge new market of Emirati who were dying to visit Vancouver.

Well, they've been flying full on Airbus 380 into Toronto, indicating a certain interest in Canada (can be all Toronto-related)
Emirates has ovious interest in the Alberta oil economy. Hence Calgary.
Vancouver is considered a major tourist destination, apparently.

Ground maintence and all related work take man hours.

You seemed to imply an opposition to this work being "poached" by Canadain workers. I think the objective here is supply work to Canadians.
Do I understand correctly.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Do you think Emirates does aircraft overhaul in Canada? And yeah, since there is little to no O&D between UAE and Canada most of the traffic will come from displacement.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Well, they've been flying full on Airbus 380 into Toronto, indicating a certain interest in Canada (can be all Toronto-related)
Emirates has ovious interest in the Alberta oil economy. Hence Calgary.
Vancouver is considered a major tourist destination, apparently.

That A380 is full? I believe others have estimated a 65% load factor.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Ground maintence and all related work take man hours. You seemed to imply an opposition to this work being "poached" by Canadain workers. I think the objective here is supply work to Canadians.
Do I understand correctly.

You misunderstood. My point is there are no "new" jobs created. Existing workers will merely lose their jobs to those servicing Emirates.

Until Emirates competes on a level playing field, with no state support or preferential treatment from Dubai, their request should be denied. As it is the Canadian gov't handicaps Air Canada by mandating them (alone of all carriers) to provide service in French, keep their head office in Montreal etc. To top it off Canadian carriers are crippled by onerous fuel taxes here.

[eemy]

In negotiating these bilaterals, the Canadian government considers the interest of both Canadian consumers and Canadian business. They want to ensure first of all that Canadian businesses won't be unduly affected by expanding the bilateral, and secondly, that Canadian consumers won't be negatively affected by the bilateral, and lastly, that the expanded rights are equitable (ie. the benefit to the UAE is balanced with the benefit to Canadian businesses and individuals).

It is important in trying to address the above concerns, to understand what expanded rights to the UAE would actually mean. Despite the oil connections, there is very little origin and destination traffic to the UAE (one of the basic criteria for establishing a bilateral in the first place). The 6 weekly flights between the two countries more than accounts for the number of people traveling between them. Instead, Emirates is interested in serving traffic beyond Dubai, primarily to the Indian subcontinent where they have an extensive network.

At the outset, the primary benefit to Canadian travelers would be increased competition on travel to the subcontinent. Nevertheless, there are already plenty of carriers who compete in this market, including Air Canada, who codeshares with Lufthansa, and more significantly has a joint venture with Lufthansa on all trans-Atlantic flights.

This continued competition is by no means assured though. I doubt that a well established carrier like Lufthansa would be tremendously effected by Emirates expanding in Canada; however, other carriers with looser ties may be. BA and KLM in Calgary would be high on the list of carriers which would be very highly effected by EK entering into Calgary. Vancouver would likely prove somewhat more resilient; however, I'm not sure how well it would fair, since its European network is a lot leaner than Toronto or Montreal. The greatest effect would actually be on carriers which already serve the subcontinent. Top of the list is Pakistan Airways to Toronto. Next, the various carriers from India, which have already started expanding in Toronto, and all of which have indicated future plans to serve Vancouver.

You could argue that Air Canada is the primary opponent to EK having greater access to the Canadian market; however, I don't think that that is necessarily top of the concerns of the Canadian government. Direct connections to Pakistan and India are far more important than connections through an intermediate hub, particularly one for which there is very little origin and destination traffic. The stakes here are, on the one hand, a marginal increase in competition to the subcontinent, and on the other hand, the very real possibility of a reduction in competition on the route as Emirates undercuts other airlines offering direct service. Expanded rights between the UAE and Canada benefits the UAE almost entirely, and offer very little which would benefit either Canadian consumers, or Canadian businesses. This is obviously unacceptable for the Canadian government, and why I would be very surprised to see the bilateral expanded anytime soon.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by whatnext

How exactly? An business Emirates gets will be poached from existing carriers already employing Canadians at YVR. Its not as if there will be a huge new market of Emirati who were dying to visit Vancouver.

there are 1000's of arab students here in vancouver alone - emirates would be a great flight for them to get here

i made friends with a few - they come here to learn english and go to university etc and fly back home when they can for a break - if they could get a direct flight on a familiar halal friendly airline they would love it

plus it would give good connections to places like pakistan, india, africa etc.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

there are 1000's of arab students here in vancouver alone - emirates would be a great flight for them to get here

i made friends with a few - they come here to learn english and go to university etc and fly back home when they can for a break - if they could get a direct flight on a familiar halal friendly airline they would love it

plus it would give good connections to places like pakistan, india, africa etc.

AGREED. TOTALLY. (for the record.)

[SpongeG]

my friend wants to go back to Pakistan next year - his friend just went back this year and flew via dubai but he had to go to toronto first - my friend is going to try the same route since his friend raved about going via dubai - but isn't looking forward to a layover in toronto

[vanman]

So with YVR having it's busiest day ever on Monday have there been any issues or problems at all ??? I haven't heard anything from the news.

[SpongeG]

seems to have gone smoothly

i was watching the one report - one biathlete alone has about 25 pairs of skis and multiple rifles - thats a lot of luggage to deal with

[Canadian Mind]

No news probably means good news in this case.

[vanman]

^ That's pretty much what I was thinking, just wondering if anybody heard anything different.

[Yume-sama]

It was pretty dead today. Arrived 45 minutes before my flight, no line at check-in, no line at security... no line at the Olympic Store

The Olympic Store is actually pretty good at YVR, has some things that are sold out online. I guess people don't go looking for it at YVR past security...

Canada Line was pretty busy. Maybe the International terminal was a LOT busier... I guess it would be the proper time.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by Denscity

News 1130 is reporting more flights from yvr to china on air china will be added. They mentioned they currently fly daily to beijing so a possible addition to this route? My radio is in another room so couldn't quite hear the whole report.

Just found the report in the bc gov website. Air China will increase their Beijing service to 10x weekly up from 7 starting in June.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

my friend wants to go back to Pakistan next year - his friend just went back this year and flew via dubai but he had to go to toronto first - my friend is going to try the same route since his friend raved about going via dubai - but isn't looking forward to a layover in toronto

The question really is... is there a chance Vancouver could get direct flights to the Indian sub-continent? Dubai is trying to force everyone through their hub. They're trying to become London Heathrow of the Middle East. The one major difference is that London itself is a major destination.

Dubai is a big holiday destination in Europe... but less so here.

I'm mixed on this. On the one hand, Dubai seems to offer excellent connections with lots of places. On the other hand, I'd much rather fly direct and if letting Emirates in would preclude that I'm not a fan. I'm also not a fan of the A380 as it promulgates the Hub-spoke system... I much prefer the tiered system where you fly direct on smaller planes.