Hamilton destined for dullness

[bornagainbiking]

Hamilton is not set to ever see greatness or even anywhere near decent in the near or distant future.
Historically our waterfront was industrialized and that minimized any chance at capitalizing on waterfront living the dream of many boomers. We are surrounded by large bodies of water yet have to drive hours to live or relax near water. All while our own local water just gets more polluted.
I have lived coast to coast and within the last year have visited both again.
A year ago I was hopefull for Hamilton and the thought of turning it all around. What I question is the timeline. I am mid 50s and it will not be in my lifetime. This area took over 50 yrs just to built the Redhill expressway, which is still a contentious issue.
I lived near the harbour in Victoria in the early 80s and just returned...... WOW they put entire apartment and condo communites on the old vacant land some industrial on the other side of the harbour. I see even more land reclaimed for the people and a half decent house here is at least $400,000.
I see ferries in the inner habour and constant float planes as i walk along the hard tracks that circle the harbour.. This town boast the highest % of cyclists at 6%. Ottawa is second at 1.7%. This town isn't perfect but there is talking and doing and Hamilton will talk from their new offices as the city rots. Just a thought but can you imagine if City hall led the way and built a new one on the waterfront? What would follow...
Hamilton is not Victoria and never will be, but Hamilton will always be Hamilton especially at the rate we are moving.
You may say if I don't like it move and in a sad way I very well may. It just gets SO hard to defend Hamilton against logic. You do it out of duty or loyalty or to save personal face. Sort of like the Maple Leafs, but they show some promise.
Halifax has been around a long time and they are showing some progress on the Dartmouth side or up Bedford way.

[flar]

I think you're being too negative. The West Harbour has come a really long way in the past years and you can enjoy like 500 acres of parkland around Cootes Paradise, which as done a complete 180 in terms of rehabilitation. The Harbour is filled with boaters of every kind all summer. The Randle Reef will be cleaned up eventually too. On the Beach side, a trail was installed along the entire length of the beach, there are several parks and a pedestrian walkway is being built over the QEW. More can be done, but I was able to enjoy the water around Hamilton and that was one of my favourite things about the city.

As for the title, I think people in Hamilton are spoiled and expect too much. I've lived in other cities too and Hamilton is anything but dull.

[SteelTown]

Plus the $75 million clean up of Windermere Basin starts this spring. There's a tender out right now for it, including a rendering.

[coalminecanary]

I lived in Victoria for a while and, while the city may be pretty, the personalities there are not. The gardens do not make up for the assholes. Sorry for my bluntness but it's true.

In the end, they have the ocean - but Lake Ontario is big enough that it might as well be one. And they have an OK cycling network - but who wants to ride there when you get honked at, yelled at and (I'm not kidding), threatened with a knife for riding IN THE BIKE LANE!?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by bornagainbiking

Historically our waterfront was industrialized

We're obviously still recovering from the shortsightedness of the 50s-70s, which threw up crazy roadblocks to what the average contemporary citizen-consumer would describe as quality of life. Look at the history and what you see, I think, is that we're trying to make the best of a bad situation.

The harbour was polluted to the point of public alarm 90 years ago. Swimmers reportedly risked typhoid and polio. Newspapers from the day tell of thousands of ducks and fish washing up, killed by poisons and pathogens from untreated sewage that was being dumped into the harbour from every angle... not just industry offenders but also communities in Dundas, Aldershot and Burlington. You can read about winter ice appearing in rainbow hues and open water unruffled by the wind because of the amount of oil in the bay.

In the early 50s, history repeated itself... thousands of dead fish and waterfowl and a ring of black scum when 8,000 gallons of oil escaped into the east bay. By the end of the 60s, it was infamous as the country's "biggest septic tank" and condemned as an 11 square mile sewer... visible fecal pollution and industrial pollution along the entire south shore of the harbour. Confederation Park was ironically closed for the entire 1967 season because of overloading at the Stoney Creek sewage treatment plant.

As recently as 1989, a ship at the Victoria Street dock blew a tank and dumped 20 tonnes of scalding liquid asphalt into the harbour. At the same time, PCB contamination in Cootes was playing havoc with the eggs of local turtles and herring gulls.

It's also important to remember that, even aside from the pollution, the harbour was far worse in the 60s, 70s and 80s, when the public couldn't get near it at all. In the late 60s and early 70s, we lost over 375 acres of the harbour to infill: 50 at the east harbour on the Lax landfill and 325-odd acres on the east harbour between Stelco and Dofasco. The nominally happy bounce from both of these was the eventual creation of Bayfront Park (opened just 17 years ago) and expansion of Confederation Park. The Windermere Basin cleanup was first studied in 1984, so it's not an overnight thing, but progress is being made.

[bornagainbiking]

My point is as my wife just said "It's so sad when you see what they have here."
Hamilton is always a decade late and a mill short. For example consider as close as Burlington. Upscale housing built within an easy stroll from the waterfront, close to a hospital and HOTELS along the shore.
Toronto, Queens Quay and along the water back towards Swansea. All HOUSING for PEOPLE.......
Yes we have trails now Bayfront to Princess point and Along VanWagners beach. At least along the Beach strip we see some housing.
We have to DRIVE to get to Bayfront. Why not incorporate mixed or raised housing along the water. React soon to build near the Discovery centre, we already have an underused indoor rink.
As for Victoria it is mostly newly wed or nearly dead. You may have been threatened with a knife try walking in some parts of lower hamilton and the tool of choice is the aluminum baseball bat.
My main point is embrace the water as from the previous posting by thistle things were real bad and we are getting better.
Here it is nice to see the government buildings, marina with boats, ferry systems and float planes all in harmony as well as plenty of people out walking either to work or exercise

[thistleclub]

Well, sure. Apples aren't very good oranges.

Stelco and Dofasco occupy a footprint the size of Ward 2. (In Burlington terms, the area bordered by the 403, Guelph Line and the lake; in Toronto terms, Yonge to Spadina, Bloor to the lake.) Swap places and you'd see a different picture. Hamilton might be better off today if it lost its steel sector in one fell swoop 40 years ago... that kind of socioeconomic calamity would've made for some crazy poverty but might have led to some innovative thinking. Or some lethally stupid public projects.

As it is, Setting Sail ostensibly sets up a mixed-use waterfront for the west harbour. Again, things take time. The Hamilton Port Authority was only created in 2001.

[SteelTown]

Hamilton Harbour Commission, started in 1912, is what it used to be. With the Harbour Commission the City and Sheila Copps was able to swap a bunch of land prior to the switch over.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Hamilton Harbour Commission, started in 1912, is what it used to be. With the Harbour Commission the City and Sheila Copps was able to swap a bunch of land prior to the switch over.

I guess I was mainly getting at the difference between the two organizations, which some might see as just a renamed organization. The HHC was largely driven by self-interest and industrial tenants and had little if any municipal oversight... in fact, it had a combative relationship with City Hall, to the point of litigation. The HPA, meanwhile, seems somewhat more aware of/responsive to community interests and generally tries to work with the City's broader objectives in mind (while still representing its port industry constituency). A bit simplified, but you get the idea.

[adam]

I find it interesting that the baby boomers were the ones who sucked the life out of the downtown and left it as a collection of closed down shops and decaying buildings but now that they are finally reaching the age of retirement, they the ones complaining about lack of infrastructure and downtown life..

Generation X'ers and Y'ers have started things like the James North Art Crawl, pushed heavily for cycling infrastructure, made efforts to live within walking distance to work, started things like "guerilla gardening", etc. In fact, we were the generation to start breaking the misconception that "downtown is scary" perpetrated by the generation that came before us. If anything, we should be the ones doing the complaining. But isn't it interesting that we are the ones coming up with solutions..

[highwater]

Originally Posted by adam

I find it interesting that the baby boomers were the ones who sucked the life out of the downtown ...

Nope. It was the boomers' parents who did it.

Originally Posted by adam

Generation X'ers and Y'ers have started things like the James North Art Crawl, pushed heavily for cycling infrastructure, made efforts to live within walking distance to work, started things like "guerilla gardening", etc. In fact, we were the generation to start breaking the misconception that "downtown is scary" perpetrated by the generation that came before us. If anything, we should be the ones doing the complaining. But isn't it interesting that we are the ones coming up with solutions..

I bike and walk alot, I've done guerrilla gardening, and I've never thought downtown Hamilton, or any downtown for that matter, is 'scary', and I'm a boomer. I also live in Westdale where I'm surrounded by so-called Gen Y'ers who think downtown is scary and dirty, and whose idea of a cool place to go drinking is Boston Pizza. Sweeping generalizations and inter-generational finger-pointing are not going to help turn this town around.

[adam]

Well just consider my perspective for a moment.. I have heard stories of Hamilton as a bustling city well into the late 70's. I remember as a kid/teen in the late 80's and 90's coming to Hamilton and seeing row after row of pawn shop on King St, I remember Eaton's closing down, Jackson Square filling with dollar stores, not seeing a cyclist in sight... I remember seeing the city in a state of complete wreck. I believe that those who were 30-45 at the time were in charge during the 80's and 90's when everything went downhill? If I am wrong, please let me know.

[Jon Dalton]

The decline started in the 50's when every steelworker could afford a house on the mountain and all of a sudden we had a 'traffic' problem. The strength of industry that fuelled the suburban exodus also helped maintain relative prosperity into the 70's. When it collapsed it left a sprawled out mess but no wealth, hence the continuation of decline through the 80's and 90's. I still can't figure out if we've hit rock bottom yet.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by adam

Well just consider my perspective for a moment.. I have heard stories of Hamilton as a bustling city well into the late 70's. I remember as a kid/teen in the late 80's and 90's coming to Hamilton and seeing row after row of pawn shop on King St, I remember Eaton's closing down, Jackson Square filling with dollar stores, not seeing a cyclist in sight... I remember seeing the city in a state of complete wreck. I believe that those who were 30-45 at the time were in charge during the 80's and 90's when everything went downhill? If I am wrong, please let me know.

You're wrong. The decilne was due to reasons economic, not generational. Maybe you are tempted to identify it as a generational thing because the decline has spanned two generations.

Being someone who lived downtown in the 80's I can tell you the decline did not begin until the late eighties/early nineties - within five years of the opening of the new Hamilton Eaton Centre. And it coincided directly with the recession that took hold in 1991, from which this core has never really recovered.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

the decline did not begin until the late eighties/early nineties - within five years of the opening of the new Hamilton Eaton Centre. And it coincided directly with the recession that took hold in 1991, from which this core has never really recovered.

I think you can pin some blame on the 1982 recession... and it was the 80s that really altered the core dynamic. Between that recession (vicious for steel layoffs) and the next, you have the closure of Woolworth's, the Right House (reborn as "Park Place," whose retail offerings would fail as well), the Tivoli and the Century, the closure and demolition of Zellers and Robinsons, the loss of vintage core fixtures Herbert S. Mills China and The Chicken Roost, plus the Gore Park massacre. This just as a brand-new Lime Ridge Mall was gaining momentum, all but cementing the upper/lower city divide.

In the "positive" column during that period, we have openings like the Sheraton and Copps, but also the CIBC buildings, virtually the only major private-funded builds downtown in the last 25 years, which have the funny distinction of straddling the period between Black Monday (Tower 1) and the onset of the '90s recession (Tower 2).

And yeah, the Eaton Centre wasn't so hot.

[c@taract_soulj@h]

It will take years for Hamilton to truly get on it's feet and become a destination. I always compare us to cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh simply because I feel they are the fairest to compare with regards to our Canadian centres although we are much smaller. I love districts though, stadium districts and theatre districts and even red-light districts lol but really, comebacks that downtown Cleveland and Pittsburgh went through were well sought out by good urban planning and yeah, tax money and felt the need to finally do something.

I don't know where to start in Canada though that feels our pain...I mean every city has it's problems and wants the best for its people but Hamilton isn't a small city. I've always said we've had so much bloody potential but I'll be one of the first to despise City Hall. I'm sorry Mr. Bratina, I love your ideas and ingenuity but I just wish there were more of you making good decisions.

Pan-Am stadium, LRT and Lister ARE a start. But the downtown itself will take at least a good 10-20 years before I'd want to spend my day off down there. How about a airport I want to use or well known retail outlets downtown I can shop at or a decent media market because I have to say, it's pretty dismal for a city of 500,000 people. Flar has a point though, alot of us are spoiled and don't appreciate what we have and his photos do MUCH justice however, the magnet thats keeping me here is losing it's grip.

I give it such a large margin though because like any optimist I really am, anything can happen. The core is a black eye though on our fair city while Hamilton Mountain, St. Creek, Dundas, Ancaster...they're going about just fine. The City of Hamilton though and it's council needs to know how to spend their money wisely. I've always said "I knock the Hammer, but it's home and always will be" but if nothing covincing is done in the near future, I may very well do some well thought out relocating while the rest of us settle on Hamiltons mistakes. We are Hamiltonians and have seen the best and worst it has to offer but thing is, are we truly born to settle for mediocracy that we've been given?