Huntsville updates

[nickodemis]

Originally Posted by luvinhsv

Smart enough? That's a pretty ignorant statement. For most Delta FF travelers, it isn't so much about accumulating points - I am now Diamond status plus I use a skymiles AMEX for most purchases. Therefore, I have more FF miles than I know what to do with. For a true FF, the main reason I will almost always choose Delta is for the fringe benefits - I want to maintain things like:

1. No baggage fees.
2. Free upgrades - rarely do I not get an upgrade - and I don't care about the 24 minute flight to ATL on a CRJ. I do care about the 4,5, and 6 hour flights to the west coast, however!
3. New this year - Complimentary Crown Room membership.
4. Award Flight options not available to general public.


90% of my travel is for work so I don't care what they charge - then when I have to pay for my family of 4, I use miles.

And to say that you can't use the points? I have NEVER had a problem finding an award flight in the last 8 years - NEVER whether it was 3 days notice or 6 months. I have flown to MSP 3x in the last year for 25K miles everytime - once on 48 hours notice for a funeral. Flew to Vegas last month for 32,500. But I also noticed that these flights weren't available to my friend who was not Medallion status.

Airtran coming to HSV would be a good thing, but I wouldn't count on a lot of FREQUENT (not ocassional) fliers to switch from Delta.

You just proved my point. You don't care how much it cost, as long as you keep you F points. That's great and all, but you earn twice as many free flights with Airtran vs Delta, but again I doubt most Delta customers are smart enough to notice.

BTW, Airtran lets you fly standby for free regardless of your status. Last I checked the bag check fees where cheaper too. Not to mention you earn elite status in a fraction of the time which also means you get free upgrades. No Crown room access, but lets face it, who arrive earlier enough for a flight to enjoy the Crown room to begin with. I mean free peanuts and couple glasses of wine are about the only thing the Crown room really offer.

You don't have a problem using your points because you spend a small fortune in flights and its the absolute very lest that Delta can do for you. I doubt very few people out of HSV will even be more then Gold status, so your experiences will nott normally apply to most of us.

And you will care about the cost when your company starts to realize it can save lots of dollars by switching you to Airtran flights. But again you'll fight the change to keep your large pile of FF points which will get you a couple of free flights to Vegas, if you are lucky.

I fly both airlines week in and week out for 5 years now, and by far Airtran has a better FF system. You have no basis for comparison other then maybe US Airways.

In the end Airtran may come HSV but they'll have a hard time changing the minds of the Delta FF junkies. They'll pull out and the cost of flights will skyrocket, again.

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by nickodemis

You just proved my point. You don't care how much it cost, as long as you keep you F points. That's great and all, but you earn twice as many free flights with Airtran vs Delta, but again I doubt most Delta customers are smart enough to notice.

Damn Nicky... you are coming across a little bitter.

We could debate the pros/cons of Delta and AirTran all day long and still not come up with a clear winner. I think it is great that AirTran is(?) setting up shop in HSV, but it is going to be somewhat difficult to convince a businessman/woman to fly into BWI when they have a meeting in Washington, DC and the Metro stop is right outside the DCA terminal. The non-stop flight would be sweet, but most of them will not mind changing in ATL and sipping a cocktail in the Sky Club while they wait.

Originally Posted by nickodemis

In the end Airtran may come HSV but they'll have a hard time changing the minds of the Delta FF junkies. They'll pull out and the cost of flights will skyrocket, again.

Just like MOB, SAV, and VPS. We have already discussed this and are well aware that if you don't use it, you will lose it!

Again, it is just going to be difficult to change the mindset of business travelers that are junkies for SkyMiles, AAdvantage Points, Dividend Miles, etc. for a program that can get you to maybe 70 destination versus a program that can take you to around 900. Unfortunately (or fortunately) business travelers often need to go to Alexandria, Shreveport, or Monroe, LA. Delta can do that; AirTran cannot.

[nickodemis]

Originally Posted by OCA REP

Damn Nicky... you are coming across a little bitter.

We could debate the pros/cons of Delta and AirTran all day long and still not come up with a clear winner. I think it is great that AirTran is(?) setting up shop in HSV, but it is going to be somewhat difficult to convince a businessman/woman to fly into BWI when they have a meeting in Washington, DC and the Metro stop is right outside the DCA terminal. The non-stop flight would be sweet, but most of them will not mind changing in ATL and sipping a cocktail in the Sky Club while they wait.



Just like MOB, SAV, and VPS. We have already discussed this and are well aware that if you don't use it, you will lose it!

Again, it is just going to be difficult to change the mindset of business travelers that are junkies for SkyMiles, AAdvantage Points, Dividend Miles, etc. for a program that can get you to maybe 70 destination versus a program that can take you to around 900. Unfortunately (or fortunately) business travelers often need to go to Alexandria, Shreveport, or Monroe, LA. Delta can do that; AirTran cannot.

Call it what you may, I am a realist. It will take a lot to change the mindset of the business travelers in HSV. You need competition in Huntsville to keep the ticket prices low. You have to ask yourself, why are the prices in HSV so high to begin with. Because people don't care about the price, they care about the silly points.

I really hope people will opt fly non stop to Orlando on Airtran vs flying through ATL just so they can make double the points on Delta. You guys really need to support Airtran or whoever else comes to Huntsville. I am really look forward to cheaper flights out Huntsville.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by nickodemis

You just proved my point. You don't care how much it cost, as long as you keep you F points. That's great and all, but you earn twice as many free flights with Airtran vs Delta, but again I doubt most Delta customers are smart enough to notice.

BTW, Airtran lets you fly standby for free regardless of your status. Last I checked the bag check fees where cheaper too. Not to mention you earn elite status in a fraction of the time which also means you get free upgrades. No Crown room access, but lets face it, who arrive earlier enough for a flight to enjoy the Crown room to begin with. I mean free peanuts and couple glasses of wine are about the only thing the Crown room really offer.

You don't have a problem using your points because you spend a small fortune in flights and its the absolute very lest that Delta can do for you. I doubt very few people out of HSV will even be more then Gold status, so your experiences will nott normally apply to most of us.

And you will care about the cost when your company starts to realize it can save lots of dollars by switching you to Airtran flights. But again you'll fight the change to keep your large pile of FF points which will get you a couple of free flights to Vegas, if you are lucky.

I fly both airlines week in and week out for 5 years now, and by far Airtran has a better FF system. You have no basis for comparison other then maybe US Airways.

In the end Airtran may come HSV but they'll have a hard time changing the minds of the Delta FF junkies. They'll pull out and the cost of flights will skyrocket, again.

I agree completely. As one who has won more free trips on AirTran while paying unbelievably low fares, I am amazed at the stupidity and shortsightedness of most of the frequent flyers in the mid-sized southern cities. AirTran has been forced to pull out of Charleston, Savannah, Mobile and Fort Walton Beach because the locals were so caught up in the "prestige" of their medallion level while being forced to fly on compact Comair RJ's just so they can have a gold or silver Medallion card in their wallets.

Reading some of the earlier posts, one is forced to ask, do any of the folks flying out of HSV care about saving money? I guess not when the government or their company (which could likely be a gov't contractor) is paying for the ticket. Presently, it will cost you more than $300 to fly round trip between HSV and ATL. (You can fly to CA and back for the same cost.) AirTran would offer special one way sale fares from as low as $39 or $49 each way.

Also regarding frequent flyers - with the AirTran Visa card you can earn free tickets faster then you can with Delta - I had to use up 50,000 miles on Delta just to do a California trip. The whole point of the frequent fyer programs is to earn free travel, not to boost one's low self esteem by boarding a plane before other people.

I have to give kudos to the Marketing Department at the Huntsville Airport as they have gone the second mile in courting AirTran and specifically getting the Government grant to offer incentives. Now it is up to the local community to offer support and realize that Delta could care less about low fares (they deplore them) and will offer them only where they are forced to by competition and are counting on the HSV flyers to respond the way they did in Mobile, Savannah and Charleston. Hopefully, things will be different in Northern Alabama, but only time will tell.

[ttownfeen]

...business travelers often need to go to Alexandria, Shreveport, or Monroe, LA.

How does Monroe freaking Louisiana have commercial airline service while some cities in Alabama much larger than that do not?

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by ttownfeen

How does Monroe freaking Louisiana have commercial airline service while some cities in Alabama much larger than that do not?

Well, Monroe has a state university, for one thing, so athletics and the like factor into it. Plus, it's a good distance away from cities like Shreveport, Jackson, Alexandria, Little Rock, Baton Rouge, etc... so the remoteness also is a factor.

Most of the larger cities in Alabama are close to larger cities so they just don't get service, of course, that in turn makes gives our airports more traffic and better efficiency. Gadsden/Anniston are too close to Atlanta and Birmingham, Auburn/Opelika are too close to Columbus and Montgomery, and Tuscaloosa is too close to Birmingham as well a smaller Meridian, MS. So, examining the cities that DO have service in Alabama, it makes since.

I'm not trying to say that cities like Gadsden, Tuscaloosa, and Auburn shouldn't have service, I'm just saying it makes since.

I think Florence and The Shoals area is a good example of a "Monroe situation."

Sadly, many Alabama cities are just in the wrong place when it comes to getting what they deserve. Decatur, is MUCH to close to Huntsville, so large development and population growth are hard to come by, Tuscaloosa is overshadowed by Birmingham to an extent too. It's sad but true.

[nickodemis]

http://www.airtran.com/sale/ATL.aspx?saleID=431&CMP=EMC-netescapes&ATT=HTML0

Sale fares* between Atlanta and:

Akron/Canton $69
Aruba $129
Atlantic City $69
Baltimore $74
Bloomington/Normal $74
Boston $89
Branson $69
Buffalo/Niagara $74
Cancun $99
Charlotte $49
Chicago (Midway) $74
Columbus $59
Dallas/Ft. Worth $94
Dayton $59
Denver $109
Des Moines $99
Detroit $69
Flint $69
Ft. Lauderdale $74
Ft. Myers $74
Grand Rapids $109
Gulfport/Biloxi $69
Houston (Hobby) $79
Indianapolis $69
Jacksonville $59
Kansas City $69
Key West $119
Las Vegas $129
Los Angeles (LAX) $129
Memphis $49
Miami $74
Milwaukee $79
Minneapolis/St. Paul $89
Moline/Quad Cities $74
Montego Bay $109
Nassau $79
New Orleans $69
New York (LaGuardia) $94
Newport News/Williamsburg $59
Omaha $99
Orlando $69
Pensacola/Gulf Coast $69
Philadelphia $74
Phoenix $119
Pittsburgh $79
Portland $99
Raleigh/Durham $59
Richmond $59
Rochester $79
San Antonio $84
San Francisco $139
San Juan $119
Sarasota/Bradenton $74
Seattle $142
St. Louis $69
Tampa $69
Tunica $79
Washington, D.C. (Dulles) $84
Washington, D.C. (Reagan National) $84
West Palm Beach $74
White Plains $89
Wichita $79

[HSVTiger]

FYI Delta Airlines begin in Monroe LA as a cropdusting business then began passenger service in the late 20's.
Hence they have nearly always provided service to that area.

[HSVTiger]

As bait for the airlines, the airport has a $1 million grant from the Department of Transportation, but local leaders say money is not enough to get a low-cost carrier to move into town. They're aiming for business and community support of their effort.

The group already has ADTRAN CEO Tom Stanton's blessing. ADTRAN is the first corporate partner to back the initiative with money. Stanton says his company's flying habits add up.

"Well, last year, we spent over two million dollars on air travel," he said.

The company has facilities in China, Europe and Australia, so Stanton says flying is a necessity.

In the past, low-cost carriers have not worked out at Huntsville International. Mayor Tommy Battle says because the community has grown from BRAC and companies like Toyota and ADTRAN, it's ready for one now.

"There's a study out there that shows we could save $60 million. That's $60 million we could use to go onto corporate bottom lines, or it could go back into people's bank accounts," Mayor Battle said.

Stanton says when a low cost air carrier comes to an airport, it's proven to reduce the other airlines' ticket prices. The chambers of commerce in Decatur, Athens and Huntsville will hold town hall meetings next week to stir up support.

Decatur Country Club is housing two next Tuesday, March 9. One is at 10:30 in the morning, and the other's at 5:30 in the evening. In Athens, it will be next Wednesday at 10:30 and 5:30, at Athens State University. In Huntsville, at the Jackson Center on Thursday March 11, everyone is welcome to attend.
WHNT

Not to mention the 100's of other companies that do a tremendous amount of flying in North Alabama. Use it or lose it, if this takes off 2 million passengers a year is a very realistic scenario, up from the approx 1.2 million now.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

As bait for the airlines, the airport has a $1 million grant from the Department of Transportation, but local leaders say money is not enough to get a low-cost carrier to move into town. They're aiming for business and community support of their effort.

The group already has ADTRAN CEO Tom Stanton's blessing. ADTRAN is the first corporate partner to back the initiative with money. Stanton says his company's flying habits add up.

"Well, last year, we spent over two million dollars on air travel," he said.

The company has facilities in China, Europe and Australia, so Stanton says flying is a necessity.

In the past, low-cost carriers have not worked out at Huntsville International. Mayor Tommy Battle says because the community has grown from BRAC and companies like Toyota and ADTRAN, it's ready for one now.

"There's a study out there that shows we could save $60 million. That's $60 million we could use to go onto corporate bottom lines, or it could go back into people's bank accounts," Mayor Battle said.

Stanton says when a low cost air carrier comes to an airport, it's proven to reduce the other airlines' ticket prices. The chambers of commerce in Decatur, Athens and Huntsville will hold town hall meetings next week to stir up support.

Decatur Country Club is housing two next Tuesday, March 9. One is at 10:30 in the morning, and the other's at 5:30 in the evening. In Athens, it will be next Wednesday at 10:30 and 5:30, at Athens State University. In Huntsville, at the Jackson Center on Thursday March 11, everyone is welcome to attend.
WHNT

Not to mention the 100's of other companies that do a tremendous amount of flying in North Alabama. Use it or lose it, if this takes off 2 million passengers a year is a very realistic scenario, up from the approx 1.2 million now.

I am extremely encouraged that ADTRAN, other companies, the area Chambers of Commerce and Mayor Battle are taking such a strong stand to encourage AirTran to begin service at HSV. This has never happened before in such a unified front. Several years ago, HSV tried to do a fare bank in which local companies would put in money into an account guaranteed to be used for tickets on a prospective low fare carrier (AirTran) but it never raised enough because of a lack of local support - Namely, the Federal Government could not committ to such a program even though they know they will spend a lot on airfare. However, now, it appears that private industry is taking the initiative to make it happen which is an excellent sign.

One last question for all those loyal Delta and American fliers, why would you continue to fly compact RJ's (flown by Comair and American Eagle) when you can fly a full bodied jet 717 or 737 on AirTran? Plus have non-stop service to Orlando, the second largest market out of HSV. Somebody tell me?

[luvinhsv]

[QUOTE=nickodemis;4723673] I doubt very few people out of HSV will even be more then Gold status, so your experiences will nott normally apply to most of us.

/QUOTE]


...and you are proving my point. I never suggested that it would apply to you. That is why your "not smart enough" comment pissed me off. FOR ME and for current Delta FREQUENT fliers (and there are plenty in HSV), it is better to continue to fly Delta. I have earned Diamond status - certainly nothing prestigous, just the result of a lot of time away from my family -and you get a lot more for that than just Silver or Gold. Why would I want to switch to Airtran when I already get 125% of my miles flown + AMEX miles, plus sometimes class of service bonus. For me to accrue 25K miles, I have to fly about 10K not including the miles on my AMEX. So again, I ask you - Why should I switch? So you can have Airtran come to HSV for lower fares?

...and to say that Airtran's baggage fees are less than Delta's? Again, not for Medallion members, so again, why should I switch?

...and the Crown Room? In your vast (week in week out as you say) travel, have you NEVER been stuck in an airport for 3+ hours on a delay or layover? That is when and only when I use the Crown room. I don't go to a Crown room when I get to an airport, nobody does. And yes, it is nice since I always get a plug for my computer, not crowded and while you are paying your "Airtran SAVINGS" for $8 beers, mine are free. And no kids running around...again, why should I switch?

Your argument is valid for new business travelers. No question! But MY point all along was that it wouldn't be very common for an ESTABLISHED Delta flyer to switch cold turkey.

Finally, all these horrible feelings toward Delta are clearly the results of your bad experiences. Keep in mind, not all of us have had these experiences. I'm perfectly happy with Delta. That being said, I would love to see Airtran come to HSV and I would hope it will succeed. I'm sure there are plenty people who would support it. Howevr, given my particular set of circumstances, I won't likely be one of them. But if you want to fly to BWI every week nonstop? More power to you!

[HSVTiger]

There are enough customers for all the airlines to do well without customers having to pay high prices and provide service fairly for everyone.

[luvinhsv]

Originally Posted by David1502

One last question for all those loyal Delta and American fliers, why would you continue to fly compact RJ's (flown by Comair and American Eagle) when you can fly a full bodied jet 717 or 737 on AirTran? Plus have non-stop service to Orlando, the second largest market out of HSV. Somebody tell me?

That is a great question and I'll answer from my perspective. Because 90% of my travel is west of the Mississippi River or to MSP. The 25 minute flight to ATL on a CRJ is a small sacrifice when you compare it to the 4-5 hour flights from ATL to SFO or PDX, even the 2.5 hour flight to MSP where I can get upgraded to 1st class.

I haven't flown to MCO in over 5 years, and never to BWI. And if Airtran were to only offer NS to those cities, from here, it wouldn't do me any good. And if they had a flight to ATL, and I had to connect, why would I want to start over earning miles/pts. from another carrier when I have a top status with Delta?

I stress that this is from MY perspective. Not everyone travels as much as I have to (lucky!!) and you can see my reasons on my other posts.

I hope that Airtran comes to HSV so less frequent travelers wil have a more affordable option (especially to Disney!)

[neilson]

Originally Posted by luvinhsv

That is a great question and I'll answer from my perspective. Because 90% of my travel is west of the Mississippi River or to MSP. The 25 minute flight to ATL on a CRJ is a small sacrifice when you compare it to the 4-5 hour flights from ATL to SFO or PDX, even the 2.5 hour flight to MSP where I can get upgraded to 1st class.

I haven't flown to MCO in over 5 years, and never to BWI. And if Airtran were to only offer NS to those cities, from here, it wouldn't do me any good. And if they had a flight to ATL, and I had to connect, why would I want to start over earning miles/pts. from another carrier when I have a top status with Delta?

I stress that this is from MY perspective. Not everyone travels as much as I have to (lucky!!) and you can see my reasons on my other posts.

I hope that Airtran comes to HSV so less frequent travelers wil have a more affordable option (especially to Disney!)

Incidentally, I fly into BWI more then just about any other airport and if Airtran began flying up there, you best believe I'd forget about my 17,000 SkyMiles and think about converting them or cashing them in.

[ttownfeen]

Originally Posted by HSVTiger

FYI Delta Airlines begin in Monroe LA as a cropdusting business then began passenger service in the late 20's.
Hence they have nearly always provided service to that area.

That's cool, but it's not just Delta. Three airlines provide service to Monroe (used to be four airline services before the Delta-Northwest merge), and none of them are subsidized by the Essential Air Service (which is the case for Florence's air service to Atlanta).

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by ttownfeen

That's cool, but it's not just Delta. Three airlines provide service to Monroe (used to be four airline services before the Delta-Northwest merge), and none of them are subsidized by the Essential Air Service (which is the case for Florence's air service to Atlanta).

I would repeat the argument that I made in my previous post, but that would be redundant, so I'll do this:

See my previous post

But, to add to the previous post, Monroe does support an area with about 50,000 more people surrounding it. Plus, judging by maps, Monroe is a bit further removed from major population centers than Florence is. Florence is about 45 minutes to an hour from Decatur, and Monroe is at least 1:30 from Shreveport and even further from Jackson.

I promise I'm not trying to sound mean, snobbish, or know-it-all ish, I'm just trying to offer possible reasoning for providing air service to the area.

[ttownfeen]

Originally Posted by tredici

I would repeat the argument that I made in my previous post, but that would be redundant, so I'll do this:

See my previous post

But, to add to the previous post, Monroe does support an area with about 50,000 more people surrounding it. Plus, judging by maps, Monroe is a bit further removed from major population centers than Florence is. Florence is about 45 minutes to an hour from Decatur, and Monroe is at least 1:30 from Shreveport and even further from Jackson.

I promise I'm not trying to sound mean, snobbish, or know-it-all ish, I'm just trying to offer possible reasoning for providing air service to the area.

I know, I read your post.

I just like to whine.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by luvinhsv

That is a great question and I'll answer from my perspective. Because 90% of my travel is west of the Mississippi River or to MSP. The 25 minute flight to ATL on a CRJ is a small sacrifice when you compare it to the 4-5 hour flights from ATL to SFO or PDX, even the 2.5 hour flight to MSP where I can get upgraded to 1st class.

I haven't flown to MCO in over 5 years, and never to BWI. And if Airtran were to only offer NS to those cities, from here, it wouldn't do me any good. And if they had a flight to ATL, and I had to connect, why would I want to start over earning miles/pts. from another carrier when I have a top status with Delta?

I stress that this is from MY perspective. Not everyone travels as much as I have to (lucky!!) and you can see my reasons on my other posts.

I hope that Airtran comes to HSV so less frequent travelers wil have a more affordable option (especially to Disney!)

Another consideration after you have made the 25 minute flight (48 minute total trip time) to ATL is that once you are in the C Concourse (where all of their ASA and Comair flights arrive from HSV) your connecting flight will be on either Concourses A, B (most likley one of these two) or Concouses D and occasionally E. On the other hand, if you fly AirTran, 75% of their flights are on Concourse C (from Gate 21 to Gate 36, with the remaining 25% of connections on Concourse D) so there is less time(and stress) in making a connection. Using Delta and its affiliates, you are guaranteed to have to use the underground train at Hartsfield. When making a connection every minute (and sometimes second) counts.

Also, if you travel primarily travel out west, why don't you fly American (with their full body MD80's) to DFW instead of flying east to ATL to turn right around and fly back west. Also, for going to MSP, both American and United have flights to Chicage O'Hare. I'm not criticizing, - just wondering why you fly southeast to eventually go west or north (to MSP) by going via ATL.

Taking the underground train at Hartsfield (ATL) can be a real time killer (I have even seen it when the train didn't work and folks had to take the moving sidewalk in the tunnel) and is often packed to the gills with travelers.

Another thought: The United hub in Denver (United has two daily flights to DEN from HSV) is easy to make connections as all of United's flights are on one long Concourse - no train connections required. Also, out of HSV, United has flights to their Washington Dulles and Chicago O'Hare hubs covering the whole country.

ADTRAN is obvioulsy fed up with paying high fares out of HSV to Delta and other airlines as they have made a financial committment to a low fare carrier according to this mornings Huntsville Times Business section.

[OCA REP]

Originally Posted by David1502

On the other hand, if you fly AirTran, 75% of their flights are on Concourse C (from Gate 21 to Gate 36, with the remaining 25% of connections on Concourse D) so there is less time(and stress) in making a connection.

Apples and oranges, David. I have seen NOTHING about AirTran starting service to ATL. Your connection nonsense (above) involves changing planes in ATL. All I have heard is that AirTran is being courted for BWI and MCO service.

Originally Posted by David1502

Taking the underground train at Hartsfield (ATL) can be a real time killer (I have even seen it when the train didn't work and folks had to take the moving sidewalk in the tunnel) and is often packed to the gills with travelers.

You are REALLY reaching when you start complaining about the underground people mover! A lot of the time I use the moving sidewalks just to stretch my legs when changing concourses. We know you like AirTran, but complaining about the people mover just shows how far you are having to dig to find a way to counter Delta. If the limited travel destinations, etc. offered by AirTran work for you, that is great. But if others want to stick to what they know and prefer, don't take it personally.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by ttownfeen

I know, I read your post.

I just like to whine.

As do I It's a great way to release some steam.