Halifax Stadium Discussion

[David1gray]

ya they are 13-39-1-4. thats 15 points behind the closest team, oh well

[-Harlington-]

well, heres hoping for that memorial cup in 2012

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

Kelly and his shortsighted band of merry men are gun shy. Their primary concern is their job and they think that "STADIUM" sounds like Commonwealth Games" to the electorate. The electorate was duped by this crowd and everyone will pay for it when Moncton lands a CFL team.

Could you tell me when the next municipal election is? I think that one question for people running as mayor and councillor should be rather or not they are willing to serve the sports fans in their constituency. Obviously, there is money available for just about everything except the CFL and a stadium. Stating the following options: that the city needs a major sport event and/or that "the private sector must make the first move" are both stating that they are not going to do anything. The first option is probably no longer a real option because of the canceled Commonwealth Games - they never should have bid on this in the first place and once they did get the nomination they should have made a reasonable bid and then carried it out. The second option of "the private sector making the first move" is unlikely since the Atlantic Schooners made a serious "first move" 27 years ago and fought for a stadium and CFL team and the city did very little to help them. I wish the Mayor and councillors would be honest, when they say that the private sector must make the first move or that they need a major sports event they should just be honest and say that they aren't going to do anything.

Is the the private sector going to make the first move towards a new arena, is the private sector going to make the first move towards a new library, is the private sector going to make the first move towards a convention centre (the city requested proposals and will be funding it along with the provincial government), etc. What does the Mayor have against a stadium? Be honest Mayor Kelly, we aren't stupid; we want real answers explaining your position on a stadium and why you are so unwilling to promote it in the HRM. There are many thing that you could be doing to make this happen.

Question for Mayor Kelly: Why is a new stadium something that you refuse to fight for?

I can see that diplomacy will not work; we need a strong advocacy group and in the next election the residents of the HRM who support a new stadium should elect officials who will work towards making that happen.

[hfx_chris]

Unfortunately the only thing the majority of voters in HRM seem to care about is whether or not their street is plower and their garbage is picked up. Kelly will keep getting voted in until he decides he's had enough.

[Empire]

Sent: c/c all councilors

Feb. 17, 2010

Mayor Peter Kelly

Your Worship,

There has been burgeoning support recently for a stadium to be built in Halifax. Halifax is in a unique position to support a CFL calibre stadium and team. With a population of over a million people in a three hour catchment area of Halifax the feasibility of a stadium that could host a CFL team is worthy of study. A muliti-use stadium would unite the community and demonstrate just how serious we are about fitness and community spirit.

The local community has always rallied together to support events such as the Tall ships, Jazz Festival, World Canoe, World Juniors, The Nova Scotia International Tattoo, The Brier, and several world class concerts. A new sense of pride is building in anticipation of the 2011 Canada Winter Games and this shows how large events can unite the community.

Stadiums have proven to be a cohesive force in a community and now is the time to provide the leadership required to keep the momentum building and bring a stadium to fruition.

I urge you and all of HRM council to provide the support required to make this project a reality.

Thank you for your support,

Here are links to two groups very interested in seeing a stadium being built in Halifax.

Regards,

Empire

Advocates for an HRM Stadium

Halifax Stadium Discussion
Link 1
http://forums.cfl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51659&p=849005#p849005
Link 2
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=174940&page=33

[fenwick16]

You are really devoted to this cause Empire. I really appreciate all the effort that you have put into it. If there were another 100,000 people in the Halifax area with your devotion then I think that the HRM would have a stadium in no time. Thanks for sending your letter to the Mayor and thanks to all the others on this forum who have been pushing for an HRM stadium.

[Jstaleness]

Thanks Empire!

[fenwick16]

There are a couple of years before the next municipal election. What if all sports fans in the Halifax area decide to support a mayor who is willing to do the necessary work (contact private business, contact provincial leaders, contact federal leaders, and solicit residential support) in order to get a stadium and CFL team in Halifax. That might be enough to tip the vote in favour of another mayor who is willing to listen to sports fans. It will take a lot of work over the next couple of years to accomplish this. We need to organize a very strong group. And at this point I wouldn't even believe the city if they say they are planning to promote a stadium. They should make actual concrete steps in the direction of building a stadium if they want us to believe it.

I get the impression that the Mayor has little to no interest in sports(?). If the Mayor is really interested in sports then he would be able to convince HRM residents of the benefits of having a CFL team in the Halifax area. There is a chance that there is little benefit; however if this is the case then I guess Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto, Montreal are all wrong in wanting it and wanting to host the Grey Cup in their cities. And why does the Mayor of Moncton seem so enthusiastic about getting the CFL to come to their city?

It is one thing for the Mayor to say that private business needs to take the first step and then sit back and do nothing, it is something completely different for him to be contacting private business and making a step in the right direction by setting up a site selection committee and being prepared to start raising the money required to build a stadium (in other words he should make the first step). The city is not even willing to set up a fund that people can contribute money to. If money is the problem then give sports fans the chance to raise money.

We need to be thinking of every possible online forum, so that we can start posting and start encouraging people to support a stadium in the HRM. I was a young person in my early twenties when the Atlantic Schooners were granted a conditional franchise and they couldn't get a stadium built. I would really like to see Halifax get a team and become a part of Canada during my lifetime. I have put my faith in the city of Halifax for 27 years now and it was a mistake. So don't sit back and do nothing; if you really want a team you need to become involved (peacefully). Like Scott Smith ([email protected]) who set up an online petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?hstadium) and facebook group a couple of years ago. He decided to do more than just sit back and do nothing. I get my inspiration from all that he has done. PS: username - isaidso has also done a lot to promote both the city of Halifax and a stadium on various on-line forums. There are many others, and we need many more to promote both the HRM and a stadium.

I have re-done the stadium 3D model that I made in January 2010 to make it a bit more practical and likely less expensive to build. The model below would seat about 28,000 without any obstructed seats and it would be expandable to about 35,000 with temporary or permanent seats. The roof is similar to Seattle, Washington's Huskies Stadium but with a smaller overhang than the Seattle Stadium ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Husky_Stadium_pregame_show_band.jpg ). At the very top of the stadium sideline upper tier seats there is room for luxury boxes. I think that the cost of this stadium would be similar to the InfoCision Stadium in Akron, Ohio. I have uploaded a copy to Google Sketchup 3D warehouse. You need to download the Google Sketchup program (a free version is available) to access it. An interesting description of the Infocision Stadium can be found at this link http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/zips/2009/06/notes-from-my-tour-of-infocision-stadium/ . (The conceptual stadium below is loosely based on the InfoCision stadium and the Seattle Huskies Stadium roof)

The next step, as far as promoting a stadium, would be to make an animation and video for Youtube similar to the video made for the King's Wharf. This is going to take some time (a few months) since it will be time consuming and probably somewhat costly to get it done professionally. In order to get a stadium built (something suitable to Halifax not necessarily the one below), this will have to go VIRAL (I am not referring to a destructive computer program, I mean Viral Marketing or Social Media Marketing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_network_marketing ). If there are people willing to devote some time to this cause then please start posting on various online forums. However, in the end, the only way that Halifax will ever get a stadium and CFL team will be if residents start electing city officials who will make it happen. In the past even a private investor (1983) wasn't enough to make it happen.

[dmont]

.

I think that's your best one yet, fenwick

[Empire]

This is an excellent design. Not only is it practical but has a look that could fit in on the peninsula.

FYI....I have had no response from the mayor or the 23 c/c'd councilors regarding the stadium support letter I sent. This other mystery group who has a proposal for a stadium is becoming more and more of a mystery. For 25 years the approach has been completely ignore the stadium issue and it will eventually disappear. The only result that this approach has achieved is handing Moncton a golden opportunity to capitalize on HRM shortsighted conservative policy.

[fenwick16]

I have made a short animation of the 3D model and added a short audio track. In the Youtube description I described the purpose of Advocates for an HRM Stadium. This is my first attempt at creating a 3D model video and Youtube clip so it is rough.

I feel confident that we can all come up with a professional looking video that we can post on Youtube. I think that we need to state the purpose and the advantages of having a stadium in the Halifax area. Perhaps have some very short CFL clips, concert clips, soccer clips, etc shown in the video clip. We need a profession sounding voice-over also. The purpose will be to promote a suitable stadium in Halifax not necessarily the one that I have drawn (although it could be included). We need to get people's interest; state what a stadium can be used for, how it can attract visitors to the HRM, help retain people in the HRM, promote the Halifax area, etc. We also should state what we believe is important in a stadium - economical construction cost, low maintenance cost, one that can be built in stages as money becomes available, compact design, one that can have additional seats added, easily accessible, pleasant surroundings (landscaping), shelter (roof over most of the seats), etc. Mostly importantly, I think that we must stress that it can be built without causing a long-term financial burden on the HRM.

There are two clips here at Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2rP3mGU8LY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVETRw4O29g : These are rough - I can work on making the animations smoother and fix up the 3D model to make it more appealing (with goal posts, lights, scoreboards ...).

We really need someone with creative ability to come up with a good Youtube video that can be used for marketing a stadium. If it is done well then we can get some good feedback from viewers regarding a stadium.

[Urban_Genius]

I haven't been following the discussion for some time but, my BC Lions are building a "temporary" stadium for this upcoming season since BC Place will be getting renovated.

I was just wondering would this be feasible in Halifax? Obviously I guess we have to wait and see how it works in BC, but I think this could be a good model for Halifax to follow if BC has success with it.

Looks pretty good.
http://cfl.ca/article/lions-to-play-outdoors-in-2010

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Urban_Genius

I haven't been following the discussion for some time but, my BC Lions are building a "temporary" stadium for this upcoming season since BC Place will be getting renovated.

I was just wondering would this be feasible in Halifax? Obviously I guess we have to wait and see how it works in BC, but I think this could be a good model for Halifax to follow if BC has success with it.

Looks pretty good.
http://cfl.ca/article/lions-to-play-outdoors-in-2010

I have read about this on a few occasions. I read that the stands are being reused from the Winter Olympics. It certainly looks good for a temporary structure. Once the Lions start playing in the temporary structure it would be great if you can get some pictures. I have a few questions: a) does the stadium have washroom facilities or is there an adjacent building where the washroom facilities will be, b) what are the exterior walls; precast cement, wood.., and c) it has end zone and sideline seats, are the end zone seats still fairly good for watching the games (since it is a compact structure)?

[Keith P.]

Maybe HRM should just buy the temporary stadium and have it shipped here from BC once they're finished with it.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Maybe HRM should just buy the temporary stadium and have it shipped here from BC once they're finished with it.

I have thought about this also. They could put it on a ship and then ship it through the Panama Canal. I remember reading that it would cost about $5,000,000 to ship one of the submarines from Halifax to Victoria (the one that caught fire in the Atlantic ocean). If it cost $5,000,000 to ship the disassembled stadium and they could buy it for a cheap price then this might be a good solution for the next 10 - 20 years until the HRM is ready to build a permanent stadium.

The biggest obstacle is how can we get HRM city hall to do anything regarding a stadium. It seems like the topic of a stadium has become a dirty word around city hall. It never gets mentioned by anyone.

[brettinhalifax]

account deleted

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by brettinhalifax

HRM could buy it and errect it here, but it is a temporary stadium that is only designed for months of use not years.


I think that there's a very good reason for the silence from city hall. Without an immediate use for a stadium (like the Commonwealth Games) or a long term tenant (a CFL team) a 25,000 seat stadium is a white elephant waiting to happen.

A 10,000 seat stadium is what I would like to see built in Halifax. It is a much more attainable goal because it could cost less than $15 million, there is already a potential long-term tenant in town (SMU football and Uteck Bowls), and the special events (Vanier Cups/FIFA soccer tournaments) are much more likely to come to Halifax than a Grey Cup or a major athletics competition.

And if a 10,000 seat stadium is built with room to expand, it could eventually grow to become a 25,000 seat home to a CFL team.

I agree with you on this. I wish that the HRM would proceed with such a plan; 10,000 - 15,000 seats with room for temporary stands. Maybe SMU can build this at their present location (refurbish SMU stadium).

Although I keep thinking that a sunken bowl is a good design, I can see some real benefits in going with a ground-up stadium like the temporary Lion's facility ( http://cfl.ca/article/lions-to-play-outdoors-in-2010 previously mentioned by Urban Genius). The benefits that I see with a ground-up stadium: a) there is more space under the stands for concessions, washrooms and spectator movement, b) if the number of rows is limited to about 40 then it won't be excessively obtrusive and the end zones can be left open for temporary expansion with a complete exterior wall for protection from the wind, c) it can be built inexpensively by having the spectator seating entrances to all seats at the bottom of the stadium and then spectators climb 40 rows to the very top, d) it can be built one stand at a time until it is complete (over several years) and e) the exterior walls don't need to go to the top of the stands thus keeping the cost down (the concession area can be left exposed to the elements and the top rows of seats could be visible from the exterior as it is on many stadiums. What do others think of this? Maybe a sunken design isn't the best if space is limited and a multi-phase (multi-year) building plan is to be followed. One other benefit to a ground up approach is that maybe the stands along one side can at times be rearranged for baseball and the HRM can get the Blue Jays to come to the Halifax area for preseason games. How about the Commonwealth Games design but much smaller (design it to be about half the height) so that it will be more compact and can be built over time or even have one side always movable for baseball.

One thing that I think is important for Halifax so that it will continue to grow and prosper, is more of a "can do" attitude and this might require some risk taking. On one hand fiscal responsibility is very important but for Halifax to reach its potential then sometimes the local elected officials will have to "reach for the stars" like many of the larger major cities have done. They tried with the Commonwealth Games but .... (I have mixed feelings on this one). If they build a stadium one stand at a time it isn't even much of a risk.

[dmont]

.

A "Request for Proposals" is still the best option, and a big reason is that it is absolutely ZERO risk for politicians.

All the council says is "We're earmarking $xM dollars for a new stadium sometime in the future. If a partner can come up with a proposal that everyone's happy with, we'll contribute up to that $xM toward the project, PLUS we'll help out in lobbying the feds and province".

1. It's a chance to see if the public likes the idea of a stadium, without getting the naysayers all terrified that some apocalyptic project is imminent.

2. If nobody in the private sector comes forward, politicians can say "Look, at least we tried to be progressive, and we were responsible about it". Kudos all around, live to fight another day.

3. If a lousy project comes forward, politicians can reject it and say "See? no one tells us what to do, we're tough and responsible with your money". Maybe some disappointment, but taxpayers dodge a bullet, people are talking stadium, and still kudos in the long run.

4. If a good proposal comes out, but the feds and province won't put up funding, politicians can say "We started something great and were trying to be progressive, but those other levels of government are messing with our mojo. Be mad at them!" Kudos to city councillors, jeers to naysaying MPs and MPPs.

5. If you get a good proposal and the feds and province jump on board, well boys and girls, you get yourself a good stadium, a sound business plan, and bigtime kudos to whoever made that COSTLESS and RISKLESS little RFP that got everything rolling in the first place.

RFP is the way to go. Not "build it and they will come", not "maybe a slow, phased-in approach", just an RFP. That works for politicians, businessmen, and taxpayers.

[hfx_chris]

Again, I think what needs to be done for the short term is renovate and expand Huskies Stadium at SMU to at least 10k seats. That would be a starting point, and a larger stadium could be built later.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Again, I think what needs to be done for the short term is renovate and expand Huskies Stadium at SMU to at least 10k seats. That would be a starting point, and a larger stadium could be built later.

Well, SMU should pay for it and reap the possible rewards. They have the money to do so.