Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction - Page 124

jlousa · #**2461** Posted **Feb 23, 2010, 1:58 AM**

Someone run the numbers, but I'm pretty sure with the M-Line extended to UBC it would leach pretty well the entire B-Line ridership, a chunk of the 84 and a decent portion of the 9. How many people would that leave traveling along the surface? I'd venture less then the 9 does today. I just don't see the need for a street car for at least another generation, they could easily increase the frequency of the 9 especially w/o the 99 along the road. Not to mention using articulated buses on the 9 route if needed.

roleypolinde · #**2462** Posted **Feb 23, 2010, 5:22 AM**

It would make a lot more sense to run a streetcar/lrt down Arbutus due to the ROW and toss out the 16 trolley and run one from joyce to dunbar or UBC due to 41st being a very wide street compared to the average. replacing the 41/43 with a 5 car tram would be godsend for that stupidly busy route.

That or implement B-lines like they were supposed to years ago!

cabotp · #**2463** Posted **Feb 23, 2010, 9:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlousa

Someone run the numbers, but I'm pretty sure with the M-Line extended to UBC it would leach pretty well the entire B-Line ridership, a chunk of the 84 and a decent portion of the 9. How many people would that leave traveling along the surface? I'd venture less then the 9 does today. I just don't see the need for a street car for at least another generation, they could easily increase the frequency of the 9 especially w/o the 99 along the road. Not to mention using articulated buses on the 9 route if needed.

I do agree that once the M-line is extended. There would be no need to build a street car system or at-grade LRT system or whatever the hell anyone on this board wants to call it. Hell they are all the same bloody thing. They run on the ground crossing intersections with traffic.

Had there would most likely be a drop in the number of passangers for route #9.

But in the distance future by that I'm talking 10,20,30 years. Assuming the ridership on #9 gets busy again. Would it be better to build a street car or what ever you want to call it. Or do we just ban curb side parking and create a bus only lane for the #9.

I'm not saying this will or will not happen.

WarrenC12 · #**2464** Posted **Feb 23, 2010, 2:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roleypolinde

It would make a lot more sense to run a streetcar/lrt down Arbutus due to the ROW and toss out the 16 trolley and run one from joyce to dunbar or UBC due to 41st being a very wide street compared to the average. replacing the 41/43 with a 5 car tram would be godsend for that stupidly busy route.

That or implement B-lines like they were supposed to years ago!

I don't argue with the arbutus portion, but I'd still like the #16 to take me downtown from East Van.

I think Hastings would make a good LRT route too. Can LRT make it up to SFU by any chance? What technology can?

twoNeurons · #**2465** Posted **Feb 23, 2010, 3:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I think Hastings would make a good LRT route too. Can LRT make it up to SFU by any chance? What technology can?

A gondola.
Technically speaking, anything with a Linear Iinduction motor ( a la SkyTrain ) has the potential for infinite grade as it doesn't rely on friction for traction or propulsion. Realistically, however... I'm not sure.

WarrenC12 · #**2466** Posted **Feb 23, 2010, 3:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

A gondola.
Technically speaking, anything with a Linear Iinduction motor ( a la SkyTrain ) has the potential for infinite grade as it doesn't rely on friction for traction or propulsion. Realistically, however... I'm not sure.

Cable cars!

What is the max grade of tram-style LRT? Unfortunately the grade on the west side of Burnaby mountain is steeper than the east side, unless they start further back and build a giant ugly bridge.

tybuilding · #**2467** Posted **Feb 23, 2010, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

A gondola.
Technically speaking, anything with a Linear Iinduction motor ( a la SkyTrain ) has the potential for infinite grade as it doesn't rely on friction for traction or propulsion. Realistically, however... I'm not sure.

You could have a cog railway. We had trains in Switzerland that dropped the cogs down and connected to take it up 6 or 8 percent grades! You would have to go right up Galardi way.

jsbertram · #**2468** Posted **Feb 23, 2010, 11:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tybuilding

You could have a cog railway. We had trains in Switzerland that dropped the cogs down and connected to take it up 6 or 8 percent grades! You would have to go right up Galardi way.

Just what we need - a third rapid transit line that's incompatible with the C-Line (Rotem) and M-Line/E-Line (Bombardier)

Which will add to the congestion at Waterfront when you have to switch from one system to another.

tybuilding · #**2469** Posted **Feb 24, 2010, 1:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Just what we need - a third rapid transit line that's incompatible with the C-Line (Rotem) and M-Line/E-Line (Bombardier)

Which will add to the congestion at Waterfront when you have to switch from one system to another.

I was thinking of comparing it to a gondola from the skytrain stop.

lightrail · #**2470** Posted **Feb 24, 2010, 5:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I don't argue with the arbutus portion, but I'd still like the #16 to take me downtown from East Van.

I think Hastings would make a good LRT route too. Can LRT make it up to SFU by any chance? What technology can?

LRT cars can climb grades of around 6%. Some systems have steeper grades. Edmonton had to re-brake all their LRT cars when they opened a line with a 6% grade. The problem as braking on the downhill - there was no problem with the climb.

SkyTrain can climb steeper because the trains are pulled by magnetic induction - the wheels just guide the train, so adhesion on the rail is not an issue - the only issues is the strength of the magnetic field and it's ability to pull the train. I think SkyTrain is rated for around 7 or 8 percent grades.

cabotp · #**2471** Posted **Feb 24, 2010, 9:04 AM**

Theoretically skytrain could have steeper grades if a stronger magnetic field was produced. Of course that would mean an increase in electricity needed. Thus raising the cost during usage.

jsbertram · #**2472** Posted **Feb 24, 2010, 1:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabotp

Theoretically skytrain could have steeper grades if a stronger magnetic field was produced. Of course that would mean an increase in electricity needed. Thus raising the cost during usage.

Or you could go with a 5% grade, and have a tunnel inside Burnaby mountain that makes a loop or two enroute up to the station at SFU's transit hub and UniverCity. Or use figure-8 loops if circular loops are too dizzying.

Lets spend billions getting students to university on SkyTrain, even though we can't afford to operate or maintain the university.

AlexYVR · #**2473** Posted **Feb 24, 2010, 5:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Or you could go with a 5% grade, and have a tunnel inside Burnaby mountain that makes a loop or two enroute up to the station at SFU's transit hub and UniverCity. Or use figure-8 loops if circular loops are too dizzying.

Lets spend billions getting students to university on SkyTrain, even though we can't afford to operate or maintain the university.

Because, oh yeah, Translink is responsible for both those things. I forgot that the government's just got a big pot of money sitting in the back room and they hand out fistfuls to whomever asks first.

tybuilding · #**2474** Posted **Feb 24, 2010, 8:12 PM**

Oh well we are getting a bit off topic here anyways. Lets focus on skytrain to UBC instead. Rapid transit to SFU in Burnaby is pretty good as is rapid transit in north and south Burnaby. Anything more would be under transit fantasy threads or the SFU Gondola (which I think would be the best option)

nname · #**2475** Posted **Feb 25, 2010, 8:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightrail

SkyTrain can climb steeper because the trains are pulled by magnetic induction - the wheels just guide the train, so adhesion on the rail is not an issue - the only issues is the strength of the magnetic field and it's ability to pull the train. I think SkyTrain is rated for around 7 or 8 percent grades.

According to Bombadier, its up to 10%.

nname · #**2476** Posted **Feb 25, 2010, 9:05 AM**

The average grade on Burnaby Mountain Parkway is about 7%, and the grade on Gaglardi Way is about 8%. So technically, it is possible to build SkyTrain up Burnaby Mountain, even at-grade too.

Zassk · #**2477** Posted **Feb 25, 2010, 4:07 PM**

There is so much whining and debate about whether to build SkyTrain to UBC, a destination that has twice the commuters and none of the engineering challenges and far larger resident population than SFU. Face it, SkyTrain is never being built up to SFU. It would be easier to justify SkyTrain to White Rock than SFU.

trofirhen · #**2478** Posted **Feb 25, 2010, 5:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname

According to Bombadier, its up to 10%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname

The average grade on Burnaby Mountain Parkway is about 7%, and the grade on Gaglardi Way is about 8%. So technically, it is possible to build SkyTrain up Burnaby Mountain, even at-grade too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zassk

There is so much whining and debate about whether to build SkyTrain to UBC, a destination that has twice the commuters and none of the engineering challenges and far larger resident population than SFU. Face it, SkyTrain is never being built up to SFU. It would be easier to justify SkyTrain to White Rock than SFU.

Why are we wasting time and energy dithering about the non-sequitur of Skytrain to SFU?? It's not on the charts; everybody knows that.

Skytrain to UBC is on the charts, so why not constructively pursue real possibilities, rather than quibble over fantasy issues?

Excuse me, but I think it's time to get back on track with this thread and address the issue: Skytrain (alrt) to UBC.

Zassk · #**2479** Posted **Feb 25, 2010, 6:19 PM**

Earlier in the thread I calculated the grade of a UBC line up the escarpment near Sasamat. I think I came out with 6% grade. So this is actually similar to the grade at SFU, but over less distance. I guess this would be the most challenging part of the UBC line in terms of engineering.

trofirhen · #**2480** Posted **Feb 25, 2010, 6:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zassk

Earlier in the thread I calculated the grade of a UBC line up the escarpment near Sasamat. I think I came out with 6% grade. So this is actually similar to the grade at SFU, but over less distance. I guess this would be the most challenging part of the UBC line in terms of engineering.

I recall this being discussed. It would mean a deep station at Sasamat to mitigate the grade. If built that way, theoretically stated by one member, the train could surface in the Endowment Lands (Pacific Spirit Park)