Phoenix Development News (3)

[Vicelord John]

A runway on that location won't work for several reasons. Whoever came up with that idea is a world class dolt.

[CANUC]

Originally Posted by Tempe_Duck

They might own the land, but they will never be able to build a new runway there unless the can convince Honeywell. The only way Honeywell will move is if the City builds them a new complex which is estimated at a couple billion. They have machines built into building there, it won't be easy or quick to move them.

I worked at Allied Signal before it became Honeywell, so I'm pretty familiar with the details surrounding their lease. Still considering the airport's tactics of tearing down entire neighborhoods and letting the land sit baron for over three decades before anything gets built seems counter to the idea of letting a stadium get built on their property.

[glynnjamin]

He said that the current dog track is almost the exact length and width needed for a pitch (120yards by 80 yards) and that renovations would primarily be done to the existing grandstand only. It would not be enclosed but that games would be at night and that fans could pay to sit in the A/C sections of the grand stand.
It was a pretty underwhelming presentation he made but I liked the idea. He was going for cost effective means for drawing a USL-1 level team. I imagine the cost they were looking at putting into renovations probably has something to do with the plans for the land in the future with regards to Sky Harbor.

[mwadswor]

Originally Posted by CANUC

Doesn't Skyharbor own that land and don't they plan on eventually building another runway?

That would be a horrible idea if they are. Sky Harbor's location is already a complete pain, they don't need to be expanding and making it worse. Mesa-Gateway is where expansion of that sort needs to be happening.

[plinko]

^Despite the fact that it'll never happen...why is a 4th runway a 'horrible idea'?

[HooverDam]

Sky Harbor does own the land the dog track sits on but I wasn't under the impression that they were planning another runway there, it would seem too far North from the rest of them. I thought the plan was to add another runway somewhere else and then move things like maintenance facilities and other warehouse type stuff to where the greyhound track sits.

[Vicelord John]

hoov, that might make more sense seeing as it would be a 10 minute taxi just to get to a runway up on washington. Not to mention they would have to clear out all those businesses and have planes basically landing on washington street.

Either way, I'd rather they either bring the puppies back or some mexicans to play soccer.

[mwadswor]

Originally Posted by plinko

^Despite the fact that it'll never happen...why is a 4th runway a 'horrible idea'?

Sky harbor's flight paths already interfere with construction in both DT Tempe and DT Phoenix, why add more flight paths? Why add more traffic when traffic into/out of sky harbor is already a clusterfuck, especially around the holidays? and, most importantly, why take out such a large amount of centrally located real estate along the light rail line that could be put to such more productive use... like a soccer stadium?

Williams-Gateway may be out in the middle of nowhere for 3/4 of the valley, but so are many other major airports, and those cities get along fine. I have no problem letting Sky Harbor reach capacity and then if you want a cheaper fare at the less congested airport you have to drive out to Williams-Gateway. Sort of how Reagan National is typically more expensive even though it's more convenient and Dulles is typically cheaper even though it's out in the middle of no where. If you want to be able to use the centrally located airport that's convenient to transit, you're going to have to pay for it. I'm all for modernizing the airport within its existing footprint, but I see no logical reason to continue expanding runways at Sky Harbor.

[CANUC]

I agree with you but here is my laymen’s understanding of the reasoning. Phoenix owns Sky Harbor and has had a protectionist attitude towards it for years, just ask Tempe. As far as the importance to Phoenix between our CBD and Sky Harbor, Sky Harbor wins, even if it means nothing taller than a pair of Chuck Taylors gets built downtown for years. As far as Gateway, well Phoenix doesn’t own it.

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by CANUC

I agree with you but here is my laymen’s understanding of the reasoning. Phoenix owns Sky Harbor and has had a protectionist attitude towards it for years, just ask Tempe. As far as the importance to Phoenix between our CBD and Sky Harbor, Sky Harbor wins, even if it means nothing taller than a pair of Chuck Taylors gets built downtown for years. As far as Gateway, well Phoenix doesn’t own it.

Actually, Phoenix Gateway Airport is partially owned by the City of Phoenix and several East Valley cities.

[mwadswor]

Originally Posted by CANUC

I agree with you but here is my laymen’s understanding of the reasoning. Phoenix owns Sky Harbor and has had a protectionist attitude towards it for years, just ask Tempe. As far as the importance to Phoenix between our CBD and Sky Harbor, Sky Harbor wins, even if it means nothing taller than a pair of Chuck Taylors gets built downtown for years. As far as Gateway, well Phoenix doesn’t own it.

The city of Phoenix also collects taxes from that land along Washington. There's nothing much there now, but give it time. That's prime land centrally located along the light rail line. A soccer stadium (or virtually anything other than a runway) would be a major catalyst for development along that corridor. A runway would not only be a tax black hole, but it would kill other development in the area because of the noise, light, and pollution... that's the whole reason most cities have their airports in the middle of nowhere.

I fully appreciate the value of sky harbor's location and would probably be among those paying a premium to fly out of there if Mesa-Gateway were opened as a reliever, but I think it would be stupid to use land along the light rail for a runway. If Skyharbor owned land on the south side of the airport there's a marinal chance I'd change my opinion, but land along the light rail simply is or will be too valuable to waste on a runway.

I was unaware the SkyHarbor owned that land, I wonder if that's a reason that part of Washington is such a dead zone.

[HX_Guy]

Here is something new...

A development zoned C-2 and located at the West side of Central, approximately 200 feet North of Portland Street.

Permit# PAPP-1000262 Issue Date 2/1/10 Expires 2/1/11
Permit Description IRISH CULTURE CENTER LIBRARY
Project 99-4561 IRISH CULTURAL CENTER

PROJECT DESCRIPTION: CONSTRUCTION OF LIBRARY TO HOUSE INFORMATION ON THE IRISH CULTURE. BUILDING IS THREE (3) STORIES ABOVE GROUND WITH A BASEMENT.

[hrivas]

wondered what was going up at 25th st and washington, the triangular shaped lot where washington and jefferson merge. looks like its a high school with planets for buildings.

http://www.lowmountain.com/documents/Plans_Current/DUFFY_HIGH_SCHOOL_RENDERING.pdf

[SethAZ]

Holy cow, that high school looks really weird and I really like it. I wondered what was going there as well. Thanks for posting.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

hoov, that might make more sense seeing as it would be a 10 minute taxi just to get to a runway up on washington. Not to mention they would have to clear out all those businesses and have planes basically landing on washington street.

Either way, I'd rather they either bring the puppies back or some mexicans to play soccer.

I think it would move the airport's northern border from Air Lane to the railroad tracks. Unless, of course, they have some grand plan to move them or put them underground which I just don't see happening.

The 4th Runway at sky harbor is a fundamentally stupid idea. The impacts to downtown and other central city neighborhoods won't be worth the fight when the time comes. The Honeywell relocation makes the plan financially impossible.

[HX_Guy]

1931 bank building heading for foreclosure
By Jahna Berry
The Arizona Republic
2/23/2010 3:10 p.m.

A downtown Phoenix 1931 bank building that was entangled in Mortgages Ltd.'s collapse appears headed for foreclosure.

The 12-story Professional Building at 15 E. Monroe Street is scheduled to be auctioned on April 20, according to a notice of trustee sale filed at the Maricopa County Recorder's Office. The notice is the first step in the foreclosure process.

Thirteen investors are owed $76.5 million, according to the notice. The largest share is owed to a court-appointed entity that is managing the remainder of lender Mortgages Ltd.'s assets.

Phoenix-based Mortgages Ltd., helmed by the late Scott Coles, was once considered Arizona's largest private commercial lender. The firm ran into trouble when the real estate market crashed, the firm couldn't raise new capital from investors and couldn't meet some of its loan obligations.

When Mortgages Ltd. went bankrupt, developer Grace Communities was transforming the former home of Valley National Bank into an upscale 150-room boutique hotel called Hotel Monroe. Construction stopped and the partially-renovated building sits empty near Central Avenue and Monroe Street.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by mwadswor

If Skyharbor owned land on the south side of the airport there's a marinal chance I'd change my opinion, but land along the light rail simply is or will be too valuable to waste on a runway.

I don't think there is any room to the south, unless they build over the Salt River. As far as a 4th runway on the north side, I thought Sky Harbor faced major hurdles with the railroads. In the US, RR right of ways have priority over just about anything else.

[gymratmanaz]

Any chance that auctioning the "Hotel Monroe" could be a good thing, in that if someone buys it, they might do something with it? Like if i could buy a hotel halfway through the construction, wouldn't it be a great steal since a ton of the money needed to do it would already have been spent.?.?.?

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

Any chance that auctioning the "Hotel Monroe" could be a good thing, in that if someone buys it, they might do something with it? Like if i could buy a hotel halfway through the construction, wouldn't it be a great steal since a ton of the money needed to do it would already have been spent.?.?.?

Absolutely! Already, Century Plaza hi-rise on Central that languished for over a year has a new owner and they have already renamed it and will offer condos at much lower prices. When (if) Hotel Monroe gets a new owner, chances are they will look at ways (at a minimum) to protect their new investment and may have the ability to rehab it and open it up as it was intended or something like it. This is the start of the cycle. There are so many projects in town that were bankrupt and thought dead and they've reemerged strong, i.e. The Esplanade, Scottsdale Galleria, etc.

[gymratmanaz]

Sure would love to see the Hotel Monroe come to fruition.