Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

I guess based one this, we can now extrapolate much capacity the C-Line is able to handle without any significant lineups like there is currently at 2min/4min intervals.

This is my guess of the capacity of the C-Line without any significantly long lineups (in passengers per day):
- 150,000 in 3min/6min freq (with max 14 cars online at any time)
- 240,000 in 2min/4min freq (with max 18 cars online at any time)
- 330,000 in 90s/3min freq with all platforms extended to 50m and extra Rotem trains bought, still with 2-car trains (over 20 cars online at any time)

What's the max frequency on the C-Line so far for the past 2-3 days during the Olympics? Is the peak frequency implemented for the entire day now on the C-Line?

Looks like the ultimate crush load capacity for the C-Line is around 350,000-400,000, with all platforms extended, extra cars in place, and the 3rd car attached to the 2-car trains. The C-Line really should've been built starting at 60m and with the ability to extend to 80m. Sigh.....I know this is drilled over and over again. At least the C-Line is built rather than never. Arggghh. I hate the people who were railing against the C-Line during the process!!!

Originally Posted by nname

Actually, with 14 trains, the frequency is 3.75min/7.5min; with 18 trains, 3min/6min.. when they put all 20 trains online, they can barely make 2.75min/5.5min (I actually timed it). To do 2min/4min, they'll require at least 26 trains.

Ok here's my revised guess for the C-Line's capacity without any long lineups and waits (again, in passengers per hour):

- 150,000- 3.75min/7.5min (14 trains)
- 220,000- 3min/6min (18 trains)
- 250,000- 2.75min/5.5min (20 trains)
- 320,000- 2min/4min (around 26 trains)
- 400,000- 90s/3min (around 35 trains)

I think Translink/ProTransBC needs to buy more Rotem cars in around 3-5 years based on this estimate. An 18 train schedule will definitely need to be in place permanently right after the Olympics, with increase of frequency at night. I would say that the passenger volume will increase to at least 130,000 on average by the end of this year, esp with more awareness of Skytrain and public transit due to the Olympics.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

its the same reason why so many immigrants buy huge houses in the suburbs cause they couldn't do so in their previous country

my friend is a recent immigrant and he is always trying to keep with his family, if one buys an iphone they have to get the same or better even if they can't afford it

One of the houses in my area is completely wrapped in marble (external), has two statues on the both sides of the main door, and has a Porsche Cayenne and a Bentley (I think continental). I think they're most likely from mainland China.

Remember, many of these recently immigrants from China (esp the rich ones) are buying million dollar homes with cash.

I'm increasingly having a feeling that you need to be a full-fledged professional in order to live a comfortable life in Vancouver (at least be able to afford an apartment and a car). I'm talking about doctors, dentists, principal engineers, lawyers, psychologists, and anyone with at least a Master's degree (and some specialist Bachelors like pharmacy). Maybe earning $100,000/yr might not even be enough these days? (sorry, no offense)

[SpongeG]

two hour waits at seabus midday according to global and they expect 2 million users today

[nname]

Good that I didn't go to downtown today:

From 2010transit:

West Coast Express operating at capacity. 12:30 dep from Mission filled by Port Haney Stn. Same may occur for 2:00 PM departure.

(So that means pass-ups at Maple Meadows, Pitt Meadows, Port Coquitlam, Coquitlam Central, and Port Moody? ouch...)

Canada Line waits Vancouver City Ctr and Waterfront - 30 minutes. No waits at King Edward Stn. Plan ahead and thanks for your patience

Wait times - Canada Line Waterfront 45 mins / Van City Ctr 20 mins / Yaletown 30 mins

Canada Line wait time update: Waterfront Station is over an hour.

The only access to Granville SkyTrain Station is from Dunsmuir St, other gates are closed for crowd control. Exit only by Seymour St.

SkyTrain wait times: Canada Line Waterfront 25-35 mins / Yaletown 10 mins / Main St 15 mins

Following routes r experiencing pass-ups & delays b/c of crowds: 3, 8, 19, 20, 22, 50, 99, 135, 160 & 701. Buses running @ max capacity.

(Add 169 to that list.. the one I was trying to take was full at Braid station)

ADVISORY - public transportation is operating at full capacity - record crowds in downtown Vancouver - please expect long wait

UPDATE - Up to 1/2 hour waits at all SkyTrain and Canada Line stations in downtown Vancouver

9:00 pm West Coast Express train #1 - departed FULL 15 minutes early - over 3,000 passsengers

(And during normal weekday, WCE only takes about 4800 passengers with 5 trains. 3000 passengers gives 429 per car, which is higher than the crush-load capacity of 415 on the bi-level... Maybe they should run 5 or maybe 7-8 trains next weekend?)

[deasine]

Canada Line's going to reach record ridership today. It's really scary how busy it was at all of the stations.

[hollywoodnorth]

I heard some Sky-pigs talking at Main Street Station tonight and apparently tomorrow with the USA-Canada game and the weather we are getting they are predicting ONE MILLION PEOPLE to ride the rails!!!! !HOLY SHIT!

[Metro-One]

Took a while getting home tonight on transit.

I felt like I was at an airport at every station with the line ups and pre-recorded announcements about reporting suspicious behaviour, having meeting zones, etc...

The longest line up for me was not on the Canada line (I got on the train at Yaletown around 10pm, was about a 5 minute wait) but was getting onto the E/M line at waterfront (a 20 minute wait). And that is the longest wait I have had so far these entire games, and I have been riding all 3 lines everyday this past week.

The system seems to be handling this amazing crowd of people pretty well

[Mac Write]

Getting TTC's old Mark I's won't really help, as they are too small. People don't like Mark I's but love the Mark II's as they are bigger and more comfortable.

[Vonny]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

What's the max frequency on the C-Line so far for the past 2-3 days during the Olympics? Is the peak frequency implemented for the entire day now on the C-Line?

Looks like the ultimate crush load capacity for the C-Line is around 350,000-400,000, with all platforms extended, extra cars in place, and the 3rd car attached to the 2-car trains. The C-Line really should've been built starting at 60m and with the ability to extend to 80m. Sigh.....I know this is drilled over and over again. At least the C-Line is built rather than never. Arggghh. I hate the people who were railing against the C-Line during the process!!!

Look like today they were operating at below 3mn frequency
it was pretty clear that max frequency has been attained:
either single track or single platform at Brighouse was holding the whole system:

Train software didn't allow anytime for loading/unloading at Brighouse

train heading south at Lansdowne was waiting for the train coming from Brighouse to clear the way.
it was followed by another train stopped at Aberdeen at the same time...

(my train also stop in the middle of tunnel between Olympic Village and Yaletown, probably due to congestion ahead...train not leaving waterfront fast enough...)

To be sure if Brighouse is pretty crowded this day (train arriving packed, train departing packed)... so in normal service thing could run more smoothly (less dwelling time),...but sill, Brighouse is a major hub for local Richmond bus...so it looks 2mn30 is quite the max frequency.

.

[Zassk]

Are the Scarborough MKI's automated?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Are the Scarborough MKI's automated?

They are, but they aren't automated under TTC's operation.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Vonny

Look like today they were operating at below 3mn frequency
it was pretty clear that max frequency has been attained:
either single track or single platform at Brighouse was holding the whole system:

Train software didn't allow anytime for loading/unloading at Brighouse

train heading south at Lansdowne was waiting for the train coming from Brighouse to clear the way.
it was followed by another train stopped at Aberdeen at the same time...

(my train also stop in the middle of tunnel between Olympic Village and Yaletown, probably due to congestion ahead...train not leaving waterfront fast enough...)

To be sure if Brighouse is pretty crowded this day (train arriving packed, train departing packed)... so in normal service thing could run more smoothly (less dwelling time),...but sill, Brighouse is a major hub for local Richmond bus...so it looks 2mn30 is quite the max frequency.

.

Trains waiting for trains happens all the time on Expo Line... I'm not sure that this indicates max frequency is attained.

Are you sure your observations are accurate? We don't have enough trains for 2m30 frequency at Brighouse. If there were 3 trains south of Aberdeen (or probably 4, if one was heading northbound at the same time) means there were only 16 trains on the whole rest of the system... which would cause big gaps somewhere else. Unless they were starving YVR to send more trains to Brighouse at the time?

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Are you sure your observations are accurate? We don't have enough trains for 2m30 frequency at Brighouse. If there were 3 trains south of Aberdeen (or probably 4, if one was heading northbound at the same time) means there were only 16 trains on the whole rest of the system... which would cause big gaps somewhere else. Unless they were starving YVR to send more trains to Brighouse at the time?

There was quite a big gap today: a 5 minute gap at Bridgeport Stn heading inbound. At around 14:20, there was a massive delay on the Canada Line because people kept on holding the doors even though they couldn't get on. Trains were more packed than opening day. Huge 5 minute gap, then subsequent trains arriving after was to arrive 7 minutes after, simultaneously.

In the afternoon, the Canada Line system really felt like opening day. Delay announcements and messages saying "Holding train doors will delay service. Please stand clear of the doors," were all played on the opening of the Canada Line.

[SpongeG]

i used the canada line today - parked near city hall walked to the station not busy at broadway at all the train i got on was decent seats available - around 8 pm

the way home the station at yaletown was busy but no long lines - just to buy a ticket train no porblem - I got totally disorienteded though I automatically think its right of teh stairs to go south but its left... anyway the train pulled up it was jam packed a good 50 or so people waiting to get on we all squeeze on - just after oly vil stattion some idiot teenagers light up a jopint an dthe train fills with pot smoke - a woman freaks out so i tell her to push the yellow strip she does we get to broadway one person is there to see why it was pushed - that was my stop anyway... so it looks like she told them to all get off the train huge group of them i think headed for white rock

anyway it wasn't too bad but really busy at about 12:30

[Vonny]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Trains waiting for trains happens all the time on Expo Line... I'm not sure that this indicates max frequency is attained.

Are you sure your observations are accurate? We don't have enough trains for 2m30 frequency at Brighouse. If there were 3 trains south of Aberdeen (or probably 4, if one was heading northbound at the same time) means there were only 16 trains on the whole rest of the system... which would cause big gaps somewhere else. Unless they were starving YVR to send more trains to Brighouse at the time?

When I did my observation around 1pm, it was 2 train south of Aberdeen, one at Aberdeen itself.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by deasine

They are, but they aren't automated under TTC's operation.

Although the trains were designed to be computer-operated like Vancouver, this was a little too 'jetsons' for the public. The trains operate automatically, but the operator monitors the train operations and controls the doors to give the public the impression a human is still operating the trains.

Vancouver, like other the operators of other UTDC / Bombardier trains, was confident of the automatic systems and didn't include an operators cab in their Mk I trains. However, there is provision for a trained SkyTrain worker to take manual control of the train when necessary. By running their trains without an onboard operator, Vancouver has reduced the operating cost of their system by a significant amount.

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Although the trains were designed to be computer-operated like Vancouver, this was a little too 'jetsons' for the public. The trains operate automatically, but the operator monitors the train operations and controls the doors to give the public the impression a human is still operating the trains.

Vancouver, like other the operators of other UTDC / Bombardier trains, was confident of the automatic systems and didn't include an operators cab in their Mk I trains. However, there is provision for a trained SkyTrain worker to take manual control of the train when necessary. By running their trains without an onboard operator, Vancouver has reduced the operating cost of their system by a significant amount.

My impression was that the union insisted on having operators in the trains, because a successful automated RT system would represent a threat to the subway operators' jobs. BCRTC had the foresight to go automated from the start, so that wasn't a concern in Vancouver.

I do hope Scarborough's trains are in good enough shape, and Translink picks them up. Of course I like the new trains better, but a MKI is better than being stuck on a full platform...

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

You may not sound racist, but your comment is ignorant. This is a common phenomenon in all societies. After all, the phrase is "keeping up with the Joneses" not "keeping up with the Chans."

I do apologize . I never meant to be racist. But it is something I have noticed. Although not alll people are like that and could care less about status symbols.

[vansky]

off topic, but still relevant...

being racist is being ignorant, of the qualities of other races...but u can be racist, that's ur right, ur freedom and none of any other person's business ideally...ppl should harnest personal self actualization, that's what's more important to society...say improving ur design skills~~

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by vansky

off topic, but still relevant...

being racist is being ignorant, of the qualities of other races...but u can be racist, that's ur right, ur freedom and none of any other person's business ideally...ppl should harnest personal self actualization, that's what's more important to society...say improving ur design skills~~

How about grammar skills?