Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[CLC]

The long-awaited new record number is out!


210,000 for Canada Line on Saturday

[Metro-One]

Jesus Christ! That thing is a monster! At its current operational levels (a two car train every 3 mins) I honestly now believe it was not under built. We can still more than double its capacity with 90 sec frequencies and adding the third car.

[CLC]

On twitter, Ken Hardie also said 500,000 on Expo + Mill lines yesterday.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Jesus Christ! That thing is a monster! At its current operational levels (a two car train every 3 mins) I honestly now believe it was not under built. We can still more than double its capacity with 90 sec frequencies and adding the third car.

Now I'm starting to believe more and more that the currently long lineups just to get into the C-line stations are just due to those stupid attendants forcing people to file into single lines like kids.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Jesus Christ! That thing is a monster! At its current operational levels (a two car train every 3 mins) I honestly now believe it was not under built. We can still more than double its capacity with 90 sec frequencies and adding the third car.

Depends on how you see it. If it's 210,000 and there's already long lineups from the station platforms all the way up to the station entrance, then something's really wrong here.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

Now I'm starting to believe more and more that the currently long lineups just to get into the C-line stations are just due to those stupid attendants forcing people to file into single lines like kids.

Exactly, they are over policing it.

I have had no waits on the Canada line so far this week (riding it every day due to my job).

And any waits that have happened has occurred due to unnecessary policing of passengers. I still think the attendants would be far more useful and efficient on the platform itself directing people to let passengers on the train off first.

The fact that the line can move 210 000 with its current fleet with minimal occurences of major waits is what is amazing.

The fact is the frequency can still be doubled just by buying more train sets. (3 mins to 90 seconds) That would put the Canada line theiretically around 400 000. Then, all the stations can easily be built to the 50 meter lengths, allowing a third car to be added, possibly bumping up a crush capacity near 500 000, especially if a few more entrances/exits are built accessing the more busy stations.

Knowing that, one can then safely assume that fully built (50m platforms, 3 car trains every 90 seconds with a few more entrances/exits) the C-line could relatively comfortably (no long station waits) move 400 000 people a day. It will be many decades until such a demand is needed, seeing how we are only currently at 100 000 a day now during normal conditions.

The Olympics so far have proven that with good flow management a fully operating C-line could move 500 000 people a day with delays, therefore 400 000 could likely be moved without delays. Pretty darn good if you ask me.

[Zassk]

I wouldn't have believed that the system could move such numbers - or that Vancouverites could generate such high transit numbers - before the Olympics actually came. That goes for Canada Line and the old line, too.

The technology choices for our rapid transit look absolutely brilliant. Let's see if it handles weekday demands as smoothly.

I have to think that there will be a permanent boost to transit usage after the Olympics end, after so many people have gotten out of their cars and tried the system for the first time.

[Pennywise604]

Originally Posted by Zassk

I wouldn't have believed that the system could move such numbers - or that Vancouverites could generate such high transit numbers - before the Olympics actually came. That goes for Canada Line and the old line, too.

The technology choices for our rapid transit look absolutely brilliant. Let's see if it handles weekday demands as smoothly.

I have to think that there will be a permanent boost to transit usage after the Olympics end, after so many people have gotten out of their cars and tried the system for the first time.

Let's see how it handles tomorrow's afternoon rush, and the one Event that everyone in North America, and Europe has been waiting for... CKNW yesterday was saying, the weekend has been flowing great on transit, Monday morning and afternoon rush hour's could be a bit dicey, but tuesday night is the big, big, big test to see just how good everything runs. Downtown tomorrow night, will be absolutely unbelievable!

[SpongeG]

what event is happenning tomorrow?

[GeeCee]

I was speaking to someone who works for ProTrans, and it sounds like they have pulled everyone out of their office to work crowd control, which probably is why they now have crowd control when it is not necessary. He also mentioned the 210k number.

[Metro-One]

We also have to remember that during the biggest of the biggest events, when a city's transit usage possibly triples over its regular ridership, a delay or two is not out of the norm.

Huge events even cause delays on the world's largest systems. And the biggest events that occur during an Olympic event are among as large as an event can get for a city.

Think of fireworks nights on the Expo line. So if there are 10 minute waits on the C-line during the largest of events during the games, that is nothing out of the ordinary anywhere in the world.

So far our system seems to be doing pretty darn well (and yes, I mean all 3 lines)

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by CLC

The long-awaited new record number is out!


210,000 for Canada Line on Saturday

I was told that all 20 trains were running for times on Saturday and Sunday by an attendant.

Also, Waterfront was using the two platforms (one for YVR, one for Brighouse) when I was there on Sunday night.

[agrant]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Exactly, they are over policing it.

I have had no waits on the Canada line so far this week (riding it every day due to my job).

And any waits that have happened has occurred due to unnecessary policing of passengers. I still think the attendants would be far more useful and efficient on the platform itself directing people to let passengers on the train off first.

The fact that the line can move 210 000 with its current fleet with minimal occurences of major waits is what is amazing.

The fact is the frequency can still be doubled just by buying more train sets. (3 mins to 90 seconds) That would put the Canada line theiretically around 400 000. Then, all the stations can easily be built to the 50 meter lengths, allowing a third car to be added, possibly bumping up a crush capacity near 500 000, especially if a few more entrances/exits are built accessing the more busy stations.

Knowing that, one can then safely assume that fully built (50m platforms, 3 car trains every 90 seconds with a few more entrances/exits) the C-line could relatively comfortably (no long station waits) move 400 000 people a day. It will be many decades until such a demand is needed, seeing how we are only currently at 100 000 a day now during normal conditions.

The Olympics so far have proven that with good flow management a fully operating C-line could move 500 000 people a day with delays, therefore 400 000 could likely be moved without delays. Pretty darn good if you ask me.

Assuming people don't all commute at the same time... I imagine these Olympics have resulted in a steady stream of peak flow. Very different than a normal, non-olympic day.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by agrant

Assuming people don't all commute at the same time... I imagine these Olympics have resulted in a steady stream of peak flow. Very different than a normal, non-olympic day.

Not so much in Vancouver, we have a lot of reverse commuting. Also I feel it is not completely a steady stream flow during the Olympics, there are large single direction surges after events are over (such as the Opening Ceremonies and major sporting events)

For example, late at night, from what I have seen, the southbound trains are far more packed than the northbound trains.

[SpongeG]

the crowds i have encountered were actually smaller than any given day on the london tube that i have experienced when travelling there

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I rode the Canada Line at Yaletown last night around 7pm. It was busy, but no waits. Of course the line-directing Nazis were out in full force, directing us in ways opposite to the posted signage, when the volume was such that no crowd control was necessary.

I think the crowds come in waves, so rather than taking down crowd control and then putting it back up, they just leave it up to be safe. I think some amount is needed to prevent the small platforms from being swamped. Especially at Yaletown where a lot of people are getting off (as well as on) trains. It has a high turnaround and if too many ppl were on the platform then the people getting off the train have no where to go.

It seems they are taking a "better safe than sorry" approach. My time in Yaletown lineup (which was huge outside, and inside the station) was no more than 15-20mins. So, not bad. Later on Sunday, no wait whatsoever.

[racc]

On Sunday, they were running 19 of the 20 trains at 3 minute headways for parts of the day.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

what event is happenning tomorrow?

It's one of the busiest days on the schedule.. although there are several other days that are similar.

Things directly along the Canada Line:

First day of curling - games at 9am, 2pm and 7pm - Canada in all 3
First day of men's hockey - 12pm USA, 4:30 Canada, 9pm Russia
Speedskating at oval - 1pm
Victory ceremony at BC Place - 6:30

Other things that will add to the transit load:

Women's hockey at UBC - 2:30 USA, 7pm
Figure skating at PNE - 4:15

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the crowds i have encountered were actually smaller than any given day on the london tube that i have experienced when travelling there

Well of course they will be! I think you kind of missed the point, hehe.

It is all relative to the size of a city! London is at least 5 times, if not 7 times larger than Vancouver. For anyone here to expect our train system to seamlessly move London sized crowds is beyound reason.

What I said is any city's transit system moving 2 to 3X its regular ridership will have delays and waits! In fact our system so far has been handling it amazingly well.

I am sure when the 2012 sumer Olympics are in London their system will be stressed to the max.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Jesus Christ! That thing is a monster! At its current operational levels (a two car train every 3 mins) I honestly now believe it was not under built. We can still more than double its capacity with 90 sec frequencies and adding the third car.

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

Depends on how you see it. If it's 210,000 and there's already long lineups from the station platforms all the way up to the station entrance, then something's really wrong here.

I thought that a third car was pretty much out of the question due to platform length: that is to say, the two ends of the train would jut too far into the tunnel, doors and all. Can someone clarify this for me please?

Is it: YES, a third car is technically feasible, or NO, it is not. Thank you