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  #1361  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2010, 12:10 AM
bornagainbiking bornagainbiking is offline
 
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Seriously

please get real. The downtown with its sub-sonic throughfare will be reduced. So what? how many people from the mountain come downtown. Do they shop at jackson Sq or Limeridge. The downtown will become the urban hub and the LRT will feed the downtown.
We need normal traffic downtown not a speedway thru.
If you want a viable liveable home town you need 2 way traffic and public transit.
You need to promote the downtown and make it a destination.
Let the study speak for the city not self interest groups.
Hamilton needs LRT as does the environment.
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  #1362  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2010, 12:27 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
 
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Read the comments from the councillors again. Just as I predicted months ago. they are hedging their bets.

Don't get your hopes up, it's going to be an uphill battle getting anything up and running. If Metrolinx goes for the bus option, city council will turn down the whole proposal. They are not going to commit millions of dollars to get people on buses through the city 5 or 10 minutes faster, especially if it means reducing traffic lanes and tying up vehicular traffic.

Even if LRT is approved, it's going to be a battle. This is an election year and anything that is going to get the majority riled up will not get approved. People are already upset about the mess created when James St. went 2 way, trying to do the same with King St. or Main St. will cause a revolt.
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  #1363  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2010, 12:45 AM
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SteelTown SteelTown is online now
 
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The B-Line design won't be finalized until 2011, after the municipal election. But 2011 will be re-election year for Premier Dalton good timing for funding and construction activity and to try to hem down the NDP support in Hamilton.
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  #1364  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2010, 12:54 AM
crhayes crhayes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigguy1231 View Post
Read the comments from the councillors again. Just as I predicted months ago. they are hedging their bets.

Don't get your hopes up, it's going to be an uphill battle getting anything up and running. If Metrolinx goes for the bus option, city council will turn down the whole proposal. They are not going to commit millions of dollars to get people on buses through the city 5 or 10 minutes faster, especially if it means reducing traffic lanes and tying up vehicular traffic.

Even if LRT is approved, it's going to be a battle. This is an election year and anything that is going to get the majority riled up will not get approved. People are already upset about the mess created when James St. went 2 way, trying to do the same with King St. or Main St. will cause a revolt.
Most people are too short sighted to see the potential benefits. They see the construction as being a mess, and when the street doesn't SPRING to life within 3 years they get upset.

James St. is starting to thrive since it's 2-way conversion. Half these people complaining probably haven't even driven down it since it converted.
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  #1365  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2010, 1:21 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by crhayes View Post
Most people are too short sighted to see the potential benefits. They see the construction as being a mess, and when the street doesn't SPRING to life within 3 years they get upset.

James St. is starting to thrive since it's 2-way conversion. Half these people complaining probably haven't even driven down it since it converted.
I don't disagree with you. I am just repeating things I have heard and passing on a little wisdom learned from years of being involved in politics and with politicians. Never believe what a politician tells you, especially in the initial stages of planning. They always wait to see which way the wind is blowing before casting their votes.

As for people being short sighted, I don't think it's short sightedness as much as it is selfishness. If it isn't going to benefit them directly then they want no part of it. Lets face it LRT is only going to benefit the few who happen to live close to it. The rest of the city will view it as an unneccesary expense, that will leave taxpayers footing the bill.
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  #1366  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2010, 1:35 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
The B-Line design won't be finalized until 2011, after the municipal election. But 2011 will be re-election year for Premier Dalton good timing for funding and construction activity and to try to hem down the NDP support in Hamilton.
The proposal is out there already. It doesn't have to be finalized to become an issue.

As for Dalton trying to buy votes in Hamilton. It hasn't worked in the past and never will work in this city. We are very cynical voters when it comes to provincial and federal elections. We have been promised too much in the past only to see those promises broken. We aren't as easily fooled as other may think we are. The last I looked we only had 2 NDP MPP's in this city out of 5 seats here.
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  #1367  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2010, 2:38 PM
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BrianE BrianE is offline
 
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Councillor Lloyd Ferguson, Ward 12

"It's already very difficult to get downtown during rush hour. If they take it down to two lanes, it's going to be more congested. That part really worries me."

Does Lloyd even live in this City or go into work at all anymore? I drive on Main St. from the 403 to Sherman Ave at 4:30 - 5pm almost everyday. 25% I don't have to stop once, on rare occasions I've never had to TOUCH MY BRAKE PEDAL during rush hour. Most days I get stopped at James or John St. On Rare occasions I get stopped at James and again at Wentworth.

2 or 3 times a year, A YEAR! there is an accident that blocks 2 of the 5 lanes and I have to wait a whole 5 minutes to get through downtown.

To many people in this City are out to lunch, don't even get me started on that opinion piece in the Spec from the Carwash owner. It's sad, but I can actualy feel 60% of Spectator readers reading that piece and nodding their heads and saying to themselves, "Now here's a guy who's got it right! Tell it like it is!"

It's official, this thread has ruined my day... possibly my week.

Last edited by BrianE; Feb 1, 2010 at 7:54 PM.
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  #1368  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2010, 6:19 PM
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realcity realcity is offline
 
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A proper functioning city SHOULD be difficult to get downtown in rush hour. Too bad that's not the case.


"many people in City are out to lunch, don't even get my started on that opinion piece in the Spec from the Carwash owner. It's sad, but I can actualy feel 60% of Spectator readers reading that piece and nodding their heads and saying to themselves, "Now here's a guy who's got it right! Tell it like it is!" "[/I]
BrianE
Love it... so true
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  #1369  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2010, 6:57 PM
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Jon Dalton Jon Dalton is offline
 
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Noone should be surprised at these — just because they're getting airtime now. The only reason they weren't before is that they were too ignorant to know about it until the proposal has been in the news for over a year. The vast majority supported LRT in every survey conducted and they still do.
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  #1370  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2010, 7:08 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
 
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Seriously, plot it down Main, the most logical course, and everyone is happy. Why must this city manufacture a crisis for every proposal?
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  #1371  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2010, 11:37 PM
DHLawrence DHLawrence is offline
 
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Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
Seriously, plot it down Main, the most logical course, and everyone is happy. Why must this city manufacture a crisis for every proposal?
Maybe it's a decoy. They get everyone up in arms about putting it on King so that when it's put on Main the opposition sees it as a compromise.
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  #1372  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2010, 11:33 AM
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omro omro is offline
 
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Originally Posted by DHLawrence View Post
Maybe it's a decoy. They get everyone up in arms about putting it on King so that when it's put on Main the opposition sees it as a compromise.
I'm more worried about the, "Well, we couldn't put it on King Street, where we wanted, it was just so darned expensive and no one wanted it there and metrolinx wouldn't give us enough money, so we've decided not to bother with an LRT"

What's Hamilton Light Rail's position, if they have one, do they prefer King or Main or a King/Main split, these days?
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  #1373  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2010, 12:07 PM
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LRT will motivate us to ditch cars: HSR chief

February 02, 2010
Meredith Macleod
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/716331

Does Hamilton have the ridership to justify light rail transit?

There are plenty of people in this city who think the answer is no.

In letters to this paper, blog posts and opinion surveys, they say not enough people want or need to go downtown and that Hamiltonians are too attached to their cars.

Critics point out that most cities with successful light rail have much larger populations than Hamilton.

Even Don Hull, director of the Hamilton Street Railway, says based on sheer numbers alone, Hamilton probably doesn't cut it.

But he says that's only part of the equation.

Present-day transit ridership doesn't account for changes coming down the road that will push people out of their cars: increasing congestion, growing concern about pollution and climate change, and the inevitability of soaring gas prices.

Light rail transit will transform the city's transit network, attract new riders and be the critical component that gets people out of their cars, Hull says.

And it brings investment and tax dollars to struggling neighbourhoods, he adds.

"More than population or density or ridership, the key to whether LRT is successful and viable is the support of all three levels of government."

The B-Line from Eastgate Square to McMaster University -- the city's proposed corridor for a light rail line -- affects four of the HSR's major routes, Hull says.

Collectively, they account for about 50 per cent of the system's riders.

That adds up to 25,000 to 30,000 trips a day, half or more in peak periods.

Hull says that's not far off the usage that would be hoped for on an LRT line. In fact, a consultants' report into the economics of LRT in Hamilton projected the system would need about 34,000 riders a weekday (8.9 million a year) to break even on its operational costs.

Hull says many cities, including Portland, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City and Denver, quickly exceeded ridership forecasts.

Hamilton is unique in that the ridership is already there, it just has to be shifted from bus to rail. Most North American systems, he says, run on an entirely new line and have to build from nothing.

That's a big advantage, says Antonio Paez, an associate geography and earth sciences professor at McMaster, who specializes in transportation.

"There is only the potential to gain. It's a relatively low-risk transition in that corridor."

The objective is to make transit the most attractive option for getting around, says Paez. Choosing to run rail lines along the busiest routes in the city -- King and Main -- and cut into, or eliminate, car lanes will achieve just that.

"The goal is to make traffic less problematic for those who choose transit but not necessarily better for those who don't choose it."

Once B-Line buses are replaced by light rail, Hull hopes capacity can be boosted in other areas of the city.

In day peak periods, HSR is having trouble meeting demand on many routes, he says.

Another important element is the city's official plan, which aims to see 100 transit trips per year per capita by 2030. That number now sits at 48 and the target simply can't be reached without LRT, says Hull.

The beauty of choosing the B-Line for the first leg of an overhaul of the city's transit system is that about 80 per cent of routes already intersect with the corridor.

"Everything off the Mountain as well as the North End and Bayfront routes meet up with King. It would be virtually an entirely intersecting system.

"That's very desirable."

Metrolinx has identified two rapid transit corridors in Hamilton to be developed in the first 15 years -- the east-west line that's on the table, and north-south on James Street from the airport to the waterfront.

Three other routes -- Eastgate to the Ancaster business park, the Centre Mall to the Meadowlands and downtown Hamilton to Waterdown -- are part of a 25-year vision.

Metrolinx has made no commitment to whether Hamilton will receive light rail or bus rapid transit.

A recommendation on the B-Line corridor is expected Feb. 19.
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  #1374  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2010, 1:37 PM
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Well, he believes it's going to be on King.
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  #1375  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2010, 3:04 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omro View Post
What's Hamilton Light Rail's position, if they have one, do they prefer King or Main or a King/Main split, these days?
HLR does not hold a position on routing (yet?)

Their main focus so far is just making sure we get LRT instead of buses, without taking sides on routing, funding, or any other political details. in reality, it's up to staff studies to determine the best route, not up to HLR, not up to the mayor, not up to the business owners. it will be (or at least should be) about actual traffic patterns, resident and business assessment data, usage statistics, etc - not hunches or opinions
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  #1376  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2010, 4:56 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
 
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Originally Posted by omro View Post
Well, he believes it's going to be on King.
I'm sure that Hull pointed out that "four of the HSR's major routes" are shared by Main.
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  #1377  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2010, 5:05 PM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by omro View Post
I'm more worried about the, "Well, we couldn't put it on King Street, where we wanted, it was just so darned expensive and no one wanted it there and metrolinx wouldn't give us enough money, so we've decided not to bother with an LRT"
Your statement probably isn't much off the mark. Thats exactly what is going to happen. Metrolinx will offer us buses and the city will say not a chance.
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  #1378  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2010, 5:29 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
 
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Originally Posted by thistleclub View Post
I'm sure that Hull pointed out that "four of the HSR's major routes" are shared by Main.
As to relative demand on those lines, a totally unscientific survey:

SCHOOLS ON/ADJACENT* TO MAIN
Post-Secondary: McMaster, McMaster Continuing Ed
Secondary: Columbia International College, Westdale, Delta
Elementary: Dalewood (6-8), St. John The Baptist (JK-8), Adelaide Hoodless (JK-8), Memorial (JK-8), AM Cunningham (1-5)

SCHOOLS ON/ADJACENT* TO KING
Post-Secondary: McMaster
Secondary: Cathedral, Parkview
Elementary: Prince of Wales (JK-8), King George (JK-6), George R. Allan (JK-5)

*Within two blocks

A dogleg along Paradise south might double Westdale in the King column, but you'd remove GRA.

Last edited by thistleclub; Feb 6, 2010 at 1:05 PM.
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  #1379  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2010, 6:01 PM
highwater highwater is offline
 
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A dogleg along Paradise south might double Westdale in the King column, but you'd remove GRA.
With the exception of FE kids bussed in from Dundas, virtually all GR students walk, so no great loss there.
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  #1380  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2010, 11:37 PM
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SteelTown SteelTown is online now
 
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McGuinty: Pan Am bid won’t help Hamilton’s LRT odds

February 04, 2010
Emma Reilly
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/717346

Premier Dalton McGuinty says the successful Pan Am Games bid won’t influence Hamilton’s chances of getting provincial funding for rapid transit.

“I see them as two separate issues,” McGuinty said during a day-long visit to Hamilton today.

The premier added that Hamilton is “obviously at the top” of the list of cities that warrant an investment in transit infrastructure.

“We’re going to continue to find ways to invest in public transit,” he said. “It’s up to Metrolinx to review the reports and studies and then to provide their advice.”

The city is still waiting to hear whether it will receive light rail or dedicated bus lanes, a decision expected from transportation agency Metrolinx on Feb. 19.

However, the province will decide later whether Hamilton will get funding for the $650-million project.

Rapid transit was among several issues the premier addressed during his visit to the city. His itinerary included a CHML radio interview with former city councillor Bill Kelly, a talk with political science class at McMaster University, and a conference of United Nations water experts at McMaster Innovation Park.

Though he didn’t meet with the Mayor Fred Eisenberger or any city representatives, McGuinty said he’s having an “active conversation” about the city’s chances of receiving a $16.5-million injection to offset the costs of social services.

However, he warned the province’s own financial woes could affect Hamilton’s request.

“Our revenues have plummeted. We are carrying a $25-billion deficit, so we have to factor that into any requests for support.”
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