Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[usog]

Originally Posted by Waders

Oop! Actually 1 car may not be able to move at all. I remembered reading some articles that mentioned 2-cars are needed to form a functional unit.

Haha yeah that's why I loled at the though of one half of a MKII train set zipping around >_>"

Anyways, I wonder how much it would cost to slice a MKI car in half and cram in another section making them the same length as a MKII, adding another door on each side, in addition to other refurbishment and maybe stringing together cars into a fixed long trainset with walkways between cars.

[SpongeG]

wouldn't it just be easier to buy new ones? aka MKII's...

[twoNeurons]

And probably cheaper in the long run.

[usog]

waste of perfectly functioning cars though, especially since they last longer on account of less moving parts

[Zassk]

Regardless of the LIMs, you'd be left with 30 year old trains that had been cut and re-welded. Remember the BC Ferries that were cut and re-welded, how noisy and shakey they are? Do you want 150 of those cut train cars running on the tracks daily? More likely, the Mark I's will be completely replaced over the next 10 years, since they are well past mid-life.

[DKaz]

The only thing I hate about the MKIs is lack of air conditioning, but what I like about them is that even though they are officially designed to carry 80 passengers per car, at times they seem like they can carry 90+ when needed. The first gen MKIs are designed to carry 130 but I've never ever counted over 115 (up to half of the articulated section) even when it feels like crush capacity. I would guess the second gen MKIIs can probably carry 132 or so crush, less than the 145 official but when you consider 17m long MKIIs is 41% longer than 12m long MKIs, 132 passengers is 46% more passengers than 90 passengers. Therefore, the first gen MKIIs were more of an aesthetic upgrade over the MKIs, the second gen MKIIs are a functional upgrade over both. I wonder if lateral seating in the two middle sections may have helped bump the capacity up even more.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Regardless of the LIMs, you'd be left with 30 year old trains that had been cut and re-welded. Remember the BC Ferries that were cut and re-welded, how noisy and shakey they are? Do you want 150 of those cut train cars running on the tracks daily? More likely, the Mark I's will be completely replaced over the next 10 years, since they are well past mid-life.

I thought the MKIs were going to be gradually refurbished once all of the MKIIs were operational, and the Olympics were over.

I think they have plenty of life left in them. With the current passenger loads and slow schedule of Bombardier, I don't think we should be scrapping any working cars just yet.

[mr.x]

^ with a mid-life refurbishment, the Expo-era Mark I's can last until ~2025 while the early-90s Mark I's can last until the early/mid-2030s...this is also almost when InTransitBC's contract expires.

[trofirhen]

. . . . given that SKYTRAIN designates the Expo and Millenium lines and CANADA LINE is uses seperately to designate the Canada Line, further to which, given that they are all part of the same overall system .......

What new title could be given to encompass the whole system?

It sounds to an outsider as if we have two seperate transit line systems. Is this what is wanted? If not, how to find an "umbrella term" to name the whole system while keeping the line names?

OR, as in Paris, calling it "Skytrain" (or whatever is chosen) then NUMBERING the lines, as is done in numerous other cities as well?

[mr.x]

^ all three lines, E, M and C, are branded as "SkyTrain"...but it's unfortunate the Canada Line signage formats are not the same as Translink's.

I think most of us call it the "Canada Line" instead of "SkyTrain" because it's quicker for us transit nerds to differentiate:
1) the different/private operator
2) the different train technology

[TransitFreak]

Talked to a Canada Line attendant last week, got to talking about train frequencies and such, some of it just reconfirmation of old news, some of it newer I hope...

Confirmed current 'rush-hour' train schedule is based on 14 trains in service. Smiled and nodded politely while holding back the smoke in my ears

Talked about the Olympics, and though not official, sounds like max 18 trains will be released for service, although not all throughout the day. It sounds like 14 train schedule with 4 extra to deploy as needed, with 2 in the yard. So we'll probably see some scheduling and frequency irregularities as they try to manage the load in 'real time'.

Also, got to understand how some of the operations work. Basically it's up to the manager on duty to decide whether to run a couple of trains past the scheduled 'last train' to address any unforseen volumes (e.g. late night concerts). If it's warranted, they'll run a couple of trains past the scheduled cut-off, and Translink will sign off on it. Interesting note too, they asked Translink to run past the current operation schedule for the Olympics, but Translink said no. She says that all customer service complaints on this issue will get the "Please talk to Translink" treatment on this one...

[mr.x]

"Deployed as needed"....loll, they'll most likely need 18-trains throughout the day. Regular workers switching to transit during the Games, Live Sites and festivities along the Vancouver-Richmond corridor, sport event spectators, nightly medal ceremonies at BC Place, 2-3 hockey games a day at GM Place, etc....I could go on.

If they're planning conservatively, they will only embarrass us and we'd be known as the Winter Games plagued with transportation problems akin to Atlanta's Summer Games.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by mr.x

^ all three lines, E, M and C, are branded as "SkyTrain"...but it's unfortunate the Canada Line signage formats are not the same as Translink's.

I think most of us call it the "Canada Line" instead of "SkyTrain" because it's quicker for us transit nerds to differentiate:
1) the different/private operator
2) the different train technology

I understand your point, but it would be so much sleeker just to have one name for the entire system. I guess that's not a possibility.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I understand your point, but it would be so much sleeker just to have one name for the entire system. I guess that's not a possibility.

The Skytrain logo should've been on the C-Line trains in addition to the C-Line logo at the front of the train.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I understand your point, but it would be so much sleeker just to have one name for the entire system. I guess that's not a possibility.

I think it was jlousa that mentioned that for legal reasons, because it's a different operator, there must be different branding to make it evident that it's operated by someone else or at least "different" from the rest of the system.....retarded? Yes.

Signage is still a huge disappointment imo...and i see that the yellow "Fare Paid Zone" sticker at the ticketing concourse is starting to rip off.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I thought the MKIs were going to be gradually refurbished once all of the MKIIs were operational, and the Olympics were over.

I think they have plenty of life left in them. With the current passenger loads and slow schedule of Bombardier, I don't think we should be scrapping any working cars just yet.

I wouldn't rebuild the MKIs. But if they need any safety maintainence or upgrades I would do that.

Basically just run them until they are ready for the grave yard. But don't decommission them just because you have enough MKIIs

[Mac Write]

We remotely don't have enough Mark II trains. 108 Mark II trains aren't enough. Even with 150+108=238 cars we will still be tight, and the extra 24 order has been cancelled.

[TransitJack]

Maybe you've seen this video. MK1 6 car train in New West

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMaXy-Vbvsw

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by mr.x

"Deployed as needed"....loll, they'll most likely need 18-trains throughout the day. Regular workers switching to transit during the Games, Live Sites and festivities along the Vancouver-Richmond corridor, sport event spectators, nightly medal ceremonies at BC Place, 2-3 hockey games a day at GM Place, etc....I could go on.

If they're planning conservatively, they will only embarrass us and we'd be known as the Winter Games plagued with transportation problems akin to Atlanta's Summer Games.

I think its a multi-agency planned event, with inside office workers from Translink, CMBC, Protrans, etc all out in the field to assist people.

The additional trains will probably be scheduled in (maybe 2) with a couple extra spares to handle large crowds at certain points (ie when hockey games are out, etc). I can't see them holding any trains in the yard unless there is something seriously wrong with a train. I think the whole two week period is deemed a special event, so I think we can expect above and beyond any contract-based service. Maybe even some short-turning from waterfront to wherever. CLine isn't going to be running the show themselves, there will also be olympic volunteers, sponsors volunteers also out assisting where required. What I can't get is why CLine ends service at 1:15 for the Olympics while the rest of the system stays running till 2:15 (Seabus and Skytrain). During NYE CLine ran an our later, why not for the Olympics.

I just hope they have good signage along the streets directing people where to go: for example, to get to Richmond Oval they suggest on travelsmart website to go to Aberdeen and walk. So many people would be lost unless then have lots of volunteers, and good signage along the walking route (like during a marathon or something)

The first couple of days will be trying, but hopefully a good flow will occur for most of the games events.

CLine hotspots:
-All Downtown stations
-Olympic Village - For the athletes village, connections to 84 UBC, and of course the "free" street car related crowds
- Broadway - duh
- K Ed - Close to the curling events and such at Nat Baily
- Langara - HUB for Olympic Bus network
-Bridgeport - bus connections from 'burbs.
- Aberdeen - ppl walking to Olympic Oval
- Brighouse - heck the Heineken house itself will be a big draw, plus the rest of Richmond's Ozone.

This is almost all the stations, yikes.

[mr.x]

^ i could definitely see a 1-hour wait for the Canada Line.


Don't forget about the airport.