Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[DKaz]

I'm going to be in Vietnam until the 18th so not sure if the pass is worth getting or not.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by flight_from_kamakura

still an absurdity, considering virtually every major transit system on this planet offers weekly passes, rather than forcing folks to choose between single day cards and monthly cards. then there's the fact that ~95% of visitors won't stick around for BOTH the olympics and para-olympics.

As well, most other systems offer 28 day passes (or another fixed number of days). Having a fixed price pass that varies in length month to month isn't really that fair. It also keeps people from buying them. 28 days is more flexible, you can buy it whenever you want and it is good for the next 28 days from first use. No need to wait for the 1st of the month if you start a new job or come back from vacation.

A little while ago I went away for a week on vacation at the begining of a month. Buying a monthly pass when I would only need it for 3 weeks seemed expensive (I needed 3 zones), and after that I would have to wait for the next month. So I just got some fare savers but wound up driving most days that month.

Faregates can't come soon enough.

[officedweller]

From the Sun:

Canada Line boss looks at options for his next stop

By Malcolm Parry, Vancouver Sun
January 14, 2010

NEXT STOP? It's been a hectic but fruitful four years and some for InTransit British Columbia GP Ltd. president and CEO Jean-Marc Arbaud. When he arrived from Montreal in 2005, the then-42-year-old native of Creil, France had a number of firsts to chalk up. The 19-km, $1.9-billion Canada Line, for which ITBC head Arbaud held design, build, operate and finance responsibilities, would be Canada's biggest-ever public-private partnership.

It would be the first PPP transit system in North America. It would be the Canada's first transit system connected to an airport.

Few expected it to be completed and running ahead of time. Or with such few technical snags. Or with ridership and profit ahead of projection. Or even with a president-CEO who will soon decide what to do next. Although Arbaud is committed to his job until August, he'll likely make his mind up by early to mid spring.

Fundamentally, the still-young SNCLavalin Group veteran has the choice of staying here, likely in his Kitsilano residence, or moving back to Montreal. He was SNC-Lavalin Inc.'s investment vice-president in that city from 2002 to 2005, responsible for negotiations, development and management of investments on projects like the $70-million Okanagan Lake Bridge, the $200-million Toronto Airport Railway Link, and more than $1-billion worth of energy-sector acquisitions.

With that Toronto project warming up, and other airport-rail links under development for Montreal and Ottawa, Arbaud would be a natural Jean-Marc on the Spot. Then again he opened an interesting speculative window Tuesday.

"Hospitals," Arbaud said in the 20th-floor MacMillan-Bloedel Building office InTransitBC will soon vacate for premises on Pender Street. "One area that I'm very interested in is hospitals -- PPPs for hospitals. Basically, I am looking at that -- from mass-transit systems to hospitals."

He's worked on hospitals before. That was in the 1990s, when the France-based math and process-engineering grad "went around the world every month" on agri-food, industrial-restructuring, infrastructure and health projects in Africa, Asia and South America.

Back in Vancouver, the project started with a complex corporate arrangement between municipal, provincial and federal governments, TransLink and YVR who all put $1.28 billion into Canada Line Rapid Transit Inc. (CLCO), which then has a two-way concession agreement with ITBC Limited Partnership. That partnership's equal shareholders are SNC-Lavalin, B.C. Investment Management Corp. and Caisse de Depot et Placement du Quebec (CDPQ). Following completion of the line, it contracted with SNCV-Lavalin subsidiary Protrans to operate the system for 30 years.

It is that long term that sees banks providing $600 million of credit at a fixed rate of "a little over five per cent," Arbaud said. North American institutions do not favour such long terms, and even the three European banks originally involved are now part of a syndicate of 17.

As for bonusing contractors to complete the Canada Line some 14 weeks early, Arbaud said: "If we'd been late, interest on debt would have been $100,000 a day. But every day you are early, you start to pay your debt down."

The early completion led to virtually no snags. Canada Line expected 92-per-cent on-time performance (within two minutes of schedule) for six months, Arbaud said.

As for any change to Arbaud's own schedule, that should be decided by May and announced in August.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Lover Fighter

No kidding, I'm coming over for a week and was trying to find out how much weekly passes were, only to find out they don't exist.

you can buy a book of faresaver tickets

day passes are $9 good for all day in 3 zones i usually get those if i use the transit

[Yume-sama]

What exactly do faresaver tickets do / offer?

I mean, besides savings on fares.

[SpongeG]

they save you money and make it easier cause you always have a ticket

[Yume-sama]

Soo... how long are they good for? Are they just a whole bunch of day passes?

[Mac Write]

FareSavers are equivalent to a cash fare, but you already have the ticket. You just need to validate it before you take transit. By buying a book of 10 it saves you 60¢/trip or gives you 2 1/2 free trips.

[Xrayal]

Saw trains 347-348 at the OMC as i wizzed by today. Was put put together and looked ready to roll. I guess we have recieved all of our new cars now.

[Mac Write]

How about 301-302, 303-304?

[Yume-sama]

lol Global News is about to have a story on "SkyTrain Idol", auditions for a busking license at SkyTrain stations during the Olympics.

[SpongeG]

spandy andy!


elsbro flickr

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

FareSavers are equivalent to a cash fare, but you already have the ticket. You just need to validate it before you take transit. By buying a book of 10 it saves you 60¢/trip or gives you 2 1/2 free trips.

Actually, it's more than 30% off ( for 1-Zone at least )... and no Airport $5 surcharge. This would be 3 trips.

As for the monthly passes not being fair, they work out to about 13 return trips based on cash fare prices. Or, 19 return trips using faresavers ( less than 4 weeks of full-time worker commuting ). So, think of them as 28-day passes, with free bonus days and free evenings and weekends.

Lots of things are monthly ( phone bills, internet, rent... ) but you don't see people trying to get a discount on their rent in February.

The month passes really speed things up on the buses, and I can't see them introducing anything like a 28-day pass ( like West Coast Express ) until they have smart card readers on each bus.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Actually, it's more than 30% off ( for 1-Zone at least )... and no Airport $5 surcharge. This would be 3 trips.

As for the monthly passes not being fair, they work out to about 13 return trips based on cash fare prices. Or, 19 return trips using faresavers ( less than 4 weeks of full-time worker commuting ). So, think of them as 28-day passes, with free bonus days and free evenings and weekends.

Lots of things are monthly ( phone bills, internet, rent... ) but you don't see people trying to get a discount on their rent in February.

The month passes really speed things up on the buses, and I can't see them introducing anything like a 28-day pass ( like West Coast Express ) until they have smart card readers on each bus.

Yeah, but you live in your place usually for a whole year, so your rent is really an annual thing (most people have year long leases) broken up into monthly payments. And mortgages are broken down by term length. Like my car lease is 4 years, so I'm paying off the total sum in monthly payments (I could accelerate the payments and pay it all off tomorrow if I wanted).

I don't know about cable, but my cell phone bill is actually a specific length (it's due on a different day every month, like the 14th isn't always my Phone bill day). And things like Hydro and Gas are volume specific so the less you use the less you pay. It would be confusing as hell, but they could charge you every 17 days and get the same results.

Transit is also a consumable. I don't have to get one every month, so it's not an annual cost broken up into easy to pay monthly payments.

And, like you said 19 round trips on faresavers = 1 monthly pass. A typical working month is 20 work days. If you only commute, but don't go into work every work day of the month, then a pass costs you more than faresavers. If you take transit

Now, I'm sure that it's probably worth it to get a Monthly transit pass for 1 zone even if you only use it 3 weeks of the month, but not so much a 3 zone. Especially if you are a workaholic or late shift worker. For example, I would head to work in the morning, but some days (too frequent back then) stay late. I wouldn't hit the zone Boundary until after 6:30pm once or twice a week. It really affects the figures if only half your trips are 3 zone, the other half are 1 zone.

I did some maths and figured that on my usual travel pattern, that a 3 zone pass was not worth it most months. It was much cheaper if I bought a book of 1 zone faresavers and a book of 3 zone, even with a few weekend or night trips thrown in. Throw in driving to work once or twice a month and a pass was ripping me off.

[Yume-sama]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

spandy andy!


elsbro flickr

Sadly he didn't make it I dunno why not!

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Yume-sama

What exactly do faresaver tickets do / offer?

I mean, besides savings on fares.

Like others said they are pre-paid transit tickets. You buy them in books of 10 so you buy them all at once and get a substantial discount. The cost is worth it if you live here and only take transit a few times a month because they save a lot of money per trip, and don't expire if not used. You can buy a book and use one ticket a month. They don't even go bad if the prices go up.

The other advantage is that they are easy to use. You don't need change and you don't need to use a TVM. There are validators at all stations, and they can be validated on buses and it just takes a couple seconds. Card goes in, card comes out stamped with information. You just validate it, and it lasts 90 minutes like a cash fare.

[TransitFreak]

WRT to buying a 3-zone pass or 1-zone and using add-fare, keep in mind you get a tax break on monthly passes only. So a 3-zone really costs $115.60 ($136 less 15% tax credit). A 1-zone with addFare for 20 trips into Vancouver would be $112.05 ($73 less 15% tax credit, plus $2.50 x 20 morning rush hour trips). So, considering this view point, it's $3.55 extra for the convenience of the pass. Not so bad after all...

[cabotp]

It really depends on each individual and their travel pattern. What may work for me or work for you may not work for someone else. Best thing someone can do is just sit down and figure out what works for them.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Yeah, but you live in your place usually for a whole year, so your rent is really an annual thing (most people have year long leases) broken up into monthly payments.

I've always thought of it as a monthly thing. Sure, lots of people have leases, but the standard terms of a lease go month to month after year 1.

And mortgages are broken down by term length. Like my car lease is 4 years, so I'm paying off the total sum in monthly payments (I could accelerate the payments and pay it all off tomorrow if I wanted).

Mortgage isn't a consumable. Rent is. That's why I didn't mention mortgage.

I don't know about cable, but my cell phone bill is actually a specific length (it's due on a different day every month, like the 14th isn't always my Phone bill day).

A bit odd, but that's perhaps because of weekends, is my guess. It may be due only on business days, but I don't know the specifics. In any case, you probably get 12 bills, not 13, which it would have to be if each period was equal ( + 1/2 day )

And things like Hydro and Gas are volume specific so the less you use the less you pay. It would be confusing as hell, but they could charge you every 17 days and get the same results.

Exactly. But they don't. It would be too hard to track. Actually, hydro only bills you every 2 months. Weekly passes would have to be mag-stripe enabled and would add a layer of complexity to the system.

I'm not AGAINST it, per se, I just don't think it's necessary to add complexity right now, when things like Smart Cards are planned and around the corner, are superior in terms flexibility and reduced complexity and more convenient.

Transit is also a consumable. I don't have to get one every month, so it's not an annual cost broken up into easy to pay monthly payments.

Faresavers are the ultimate in terms of being consumable. More than monthly OR weekly passes.

You're right, that if your commute is off-peak, it's usually not worth it to get a multi-zone pass. The best way is get the minimum you need and add-fares when you need the extra. That way, you get the tax-break and the convenience of the pass.

[CLC]

Gary Mason: Bring on taxes – if they help transit grow
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opin...f-they-help-transit-grow/article1433441/

Published on Friday, Jan. 15, 2010 10:31PM EST
Vancouver confession: I’ve been far better at talking about the merits of public transit than experiencing them.

I was no different than many. My trip into Vancouver from the suburb in which I live was more convenient in my car. The times I had tried the bus it was always jammed. I didn’t enjoy having to listen to some Motley Crue song seeping out from the headphones of the rocker sitting next to me before the sun had even risen.

The buses often crawled along the major arteries into town. It took longer to get there than it did in my car.

Then along came the Canada Line, Greater Vancouver’s new rapid-transit train that goes from the airport into downtown. At the same time, TransLink, the regional transit authority, made it easier and quicker for buses leaving my neighbourhood to access the train. Once on it, the ride downtown was 15 minutes. Overall, the Canada Line, and improvements to bus routes, helped shave 15 minutes (and sometimes much more) off of people’s commute from where I live. The entire experience was more enjoyable, too.

Now I take the Canada Line all the time.

My story isn’t different from thousands of others, in cities across the country. The transit system had to work for me before I was prepared to become a regular user. But the cost of getting me, and many others, out of our cars wasn’t cheap. Building new transit is incredibly expensive.

Which brings me, in a roundabout way admittedly, to the debate raging in Vancouver (and Montreal too) about a recent hike in downtown parking taxes. TransLink tripled the provincial sales tax for parking in the city to 21 per cent from 7. A monthly parking pass that cost $300 now costs $345.

A coalition of downtown businesses is fighting the increase. There is much huffing and puffing going on but any chance they’ll be successful in blowing the increase away is slim.

And that is good.

The debate is like so many others in modern society: people want improvements, it’s just paying for them they don’t like. I don’t like paying taxes any more than the next person but in the case of transit, at least, I completely support it.

Let me use Vancouver as an example to explain some primary facts that can be applied to almost every major city in the country. Building more roads to facilitate car traffic into downtown isn’t feasible. There is no more land available. And then there is the small issue of the pollution cars generate. So we need to get people out of cars. But to do that we need to give people feasible transit options.

Like the Canada Line.

TransLink has a $1-billion a year budget. Roughly 40 per cent of that budget comes from transit fares, 55 per cent from property and fuel taxes and the remainder from a collection of other sources. The proposed parking tax is included in that amount: it represents 0.5 per cent of TransLink’s entire budget.

It is a pittance.

The truth is many people who park downtown can afford it. Many have their parking paid for or subsidized by their employers. The business coalition opposing the tax is cutting off its nose to spite its face. As it is, 40 per cent of people coming downtown each day come by transit. The money collected from the tax is going to pay for improvements to transit so people can go downtown in greater numbers to spend money at the stores of those businesses opposing the tax.

As one planner put it to me, the degree to which the businesses are acting against their own self-interests is breathtaking.

Still, whatever money TransLink raises from the parking tax won’t come close to what’s needed to make the kind of improvements required to address the region’s future transit needs. Not even close.

TransLink’s budget for the foreseeable future only allows it to finance previously announced expansions and maintain the system as it is. It does not allow it to expand to accommodate the hundreds of thousands of additional people who will occupy the metropolitan Vancouver area in the coming years.

Something has to give. And it will.

Soon, a debate will begin in this city and others across the country on road pricing. It will make people quickly forget about parking taxes. The day is coming when a value is placed on the concrete a car drives on at certain times of day. It will be a form of tolling that will not apply to bridges but to all major arteries heading into the system.

It will help finance the new Canada Lines and electric buses that will be needed across the country. And once they’re built, people will use them – believe me.