Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ the airport link is expensive for any use it would garner, which would be minimal. Better to spend the money on any other part of the system to build one or two more incremental stations, or start to get across the greenbelt and build a big Park and Ride.

I agree ridership wouldn't be great, but it only requires about 3 km of additional trackage to reach as opposed to a South Keys terminus. The airport should be the terminus for Stage 1 of the N/S route though (whether via the O-Train as currently proposed, or the SE Transitway as I would prefer).

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Only 3 km, and of course weaving a station in near the terminal, crossing numerous roads, figuring out how to integrate it with the terminal. Plus permanently committing to a spur that will reduce capacity further down the line if it ever goes across the greenbelt. I doubt the link could be done for less than $200 million dollars plus vehicle costs.

Now if they want to run a single track spur, reuse the Talents from the O-Train as shuttles, and have a forced transfer at South Keys I think that would be just dandy.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

^ Only 3 km, and of course weaving a station in near the terminal, crossing numerous roads, figuring out how to integrate it with the terminal. Plus permanently committing to a spur that will reduce capacity further down the line if it ever goes across the greenbelt. I doubt the link could be done for less than $200 million dollars plus vehicle costs.

Now if they want to run a single track spur, reuse the Talents from the O-Train as shuttles, and have a forced transfer at South Keys I think that would be just dandy.

Or they could just extend the O-Train line to the airport (they'd need another Talent set or two, and a double-track section at Greenboro), but that would commit them to running the Southeast Transitway for the north-south line.

[Ottawan]

Usually I think that ridership is the appropriate way of measuring the necessity of a transit route. However, in the case of the airport link, the issue has much more to do with marketing Ottawa and positioning it economically as a place ideal for business & investment. Making it quick and easy to access the airport (transfer-free to downtown, greater comfort than buses) is something worth paying a premium for even if the ridership is not equal on a $-per-rider basis as merely extending the system to some park & ride extravaganza.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Portland's LRT to their airport generates around 2000 on-offs a day out of 14.6 million passengers a year. That is 5% market share if you don't consider any employees taking it. So for 4.3 million pax that works out to 590 people a day.

Most passengers from the airport I would include in the 'choice rider' category, and most, of whatever percentage heading downtown that your hoping to capture do not want to stop 10 times on the way downtown while carrying luggage.

A good quote from a Transit Blogger about a related subject is:

Ultimately, lots of people love the idea of a subway to the sea for the same reason they like the idea of a subway to the airport -- because they can imagine using it occasionally. This can yield a disconnect between the political popularity of a service and its actual ridership potential.

Now, I know you said it was still worth it due to the reasons you outlined, but really is an LRT link to the airport going to make Ottawa a business panacea? A better use for money for that would be to cut business taxes and fees within the city.

If it is something worth paying for, then I am all for the spur as long as the fare to take it is $10 or more to help pay for the link. In Vancouver, the airport put up more than $200 million of its own money to get the airport link.

[waterloowarrior]

North-South LRT put ridership at 1800 per day

[Richard Eade]

After the DOTT is built, we will have an Earth Pressure Balanced Tunnel Boring Machine just sitting around doing nothing. (Assuming we buy it and not lease one.) There is no reason that it couldn't be set to work boring under the airport so that the Airport Station is along the N/S line and not at the end of a spur. Boring under the airport and its runways, which sits on a big sand pile, would be no different from boring under Sandy Hill. The airport would not have to shut down and the launch/recovery pits would be outside airport property. The new station could be below grade so it could be closer to the airport entrance.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

After the DOTT is built, we will have an Earth Pressure Balanced Tunnel Boring Machine just sitting around doing nothing. (Assuming we buy it and not lease one.) There is no reason that it couldn't be set to work boring under the airport so that the Airport Station is along the N/S line and not at the end of a spur. Boring under the airport and its runways, which sits on a big sand pile, would be no different from boring under Sandy Hill. The airport would not have to shut down and the launch/recovery pits would be outside airport property. The new station could be below grade so it could be closer to the airport entrance.

Whether we have a boring machine or not, this sounds like an awfully expensive approach towards delivering rapid transit to the south end or the airport.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Whether we have a boring machine or not, this sounds like an awfully expensive approach towards delivering rapid transit to the south end or the airport.

And when has that ever stopped us from contemplating such things?

*ahem* Baseline *ahem*


That said, combining the airport and Riverside South lines at least sorts out the issue of cutting frequencies to each south of South Keys and would be more economical to operate than two separate lines.

The place most likely to see the TBM used after downtown, however, is not the airport but the Richmond-Byron corridor. For most of the corridor the rock is close to the surface and Lord knows the NIMBYs around here would love nothing better than a tunnelled LRT that doesn't disturb their park.

[lrt's friend]

That said, combining the airport and Riverside South lines at least sorts out the issue of cutting frequencies to each south of South Keys and would be more economical to operate than two separate lines.

That is indeed a concern, but considering that an airport spur will have at most two stations and limited ridership, I can't see a need of train frequency of more than 15 minutes. It should be possible to schedule trains to minimize impact on service south of South Keys.

[Marcus CLS]

Here's my ideas for the LRT Western Corridor. The Nimbies as usual won't like it but are solutions that make sense.

The NCC will most likely disallow use of the western Parkway. If the parkway is used then the LRT should run on the surface of the present centre grass median between the traffic lanes. Of course this means you will lose all the trees on the centre grass median. I believe this would be the cheapest route.

The existing pedestrian under pass at Ambleside would be a logical location for an LRT station.

Since the NCC will axe the best and cheapest route for the taxpayers of Ottawa the Richmond-Byron coridor is the only other logical choice. The LRT should run on the surface of the Richmond-Byon corridor similar to how the Red Rocket runs on Spadina Avenue in Toronto. Unlike Spadina Ave. Richmond should remain as two lanes of traffic in either direction and the LRT run in the centre. Widening will be required and of course Nimbies will not like this. Tunnelling along the entire corridor is just too expensive. So the Nimbies will have to make a hard choice. Save the trees and pay higher taxes for the tunnel or lose some of the trees and run the LRT on the surface.

The tunnnel machine would still be required at the east and west ends. To link the transitway to Richmond tunneling would be done from Dominion station to Richmond and should go under the ground of the existing vacant land adjacent to the Keg Mansion Restaurant and rise up in the centre at Richmond. At the west end the tunnel would go down at the Honda used car lot next to the Inuit Baffin House Hospice. In fact expropriate and demolish the Honda Lot. They have been expanding at the main lot too much anyways and have another Lot at Island park drive. These dealerships are just an eyesore.

The tunnel would continue along under the existing weird triangular green space parkette and squeeze under and beneath Ambleside and follow straight under the existing pedestrian path opening between the two high rises. The tunnel would then curve south and come up straight into the present Lincoln Fields Transitway station.

Obviously there would be alot of engineering studies required but at the west end the idea is to tunnel where there is the least amount of existing surface buildings or surface disruption.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

The only thing to go would be the Honda used car Lot.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Marcus CLS

Here's my ideas for the LRT Western Corridor. The Nimbies as usual won't like it but are solutions that make sense.

The NCC will most likely disallow use of the western Parkway. If the parkway is used then the LRT should run on the surface of the present centre grass median between the traffic lanes. Of course this means you will lose all the trees on the centre grass median. I believe this would be the cheapest route.

The existing pedestrian under pass at Ambleside would be a logical location for an LRT station.

Since the NCC will axe the best and cheapest route for the taxpayers of Ottawa the Richmond-Byron coridor is the only other logical choice. The LRT should run on the surface of the Richmond-Byon corridor similar to how the Red Rocket runs on Spadina Avenue in Toronto. Unlike Spadina Ave. Richmond should remain as two lanes of traffic in either direction and the LRT run in the centre. Widening will be required and of course Nimbies will not like this. Tunnelling along the entire corridor is just too expensive. So the Nimbies will have to make a hard choice. Save the trees and pay higher taxes for the tunnel or lose some of the trees and run the LRT on the surface.

The tunnnel machine would still be required at the east and west ends. To link the transitway to Richmond tunneling would be done from Dominion station to Richmond and should go under the ground of the existing vacant land adjacent to the Keg Mansion Restaurant and rise up in the centre at Richmond. At the west end the tunnel would go down at the Honda used car lot next to the Inuit Baffin House Hospice. In fact expropriate and demolish the Honda Lot. They have been expanding at the main lot too much anyways and have another Lot at Island park drive. These dealerships are just an eyesore.

The tunnel would continue along under the existing weird triangular green space parkette and squeeze under and beneath Ambleside and follow straight under the existing pedestrian path opening between the two high rises. The tunnel would then curve south and come up straight into the present Lincoln Fields Transitway station.

Obviously there would be alot of engineering studies required but at the west end the idea is to tunnel where there is the least amount of existing surface buildings or surface disruption.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

The only thing to go would be the Honda used car Lot.

The eastern section to connect to what is now Dominion Station will only require a below-grade trench, not a full tunnel. I do agree that a tunnel will be required between Lincoln Fields and New Orchard, but I recommend only a short curved tunnel about 600m long. Otherwise, the entire length should be at-grade except for a short descent below Woodroffe Avenue (that has to remain accessible to both Byron and Richmond being an important road in the area).

Richmond Road would be narrowed to 2 lanes in the entire corridor, and Byron Avenue would be the main access to all streets south, the only connections being at Richardson (before the east portal), Woodroffe and Broadview (after the eastern trench begins).

[Richard Eade]

Well, it looks as if the City's right hand and its left hand aren't speaking again: I went to the Public Information Session about the new Articulated Bus Garage last evening and found some interesting things - not the least of which is that the people designing the maintenance and storage site have not been talking with the people who have been planning the Cumberland Corridor - Hospital Link Transitway!



The red lines represent the routes which are being considered for the Hospital Link portion of the route. (Recall that these are the remaining route options available since the Browning Corridor was released in December.) There is the option of following Innes-Industrial and then cutting across to Terminal via the old Russell Road ROW (expropriation needed) or Innes - Rail line - Terminal to Hurdman. Following the old rail line is actually the preferred route since it avoids sending a bunch of buses through the Innes/Industrial/St. Laurent intersection; which is currently at a failing level (D).

However, both of these routes are effectively blocked by the new layout of the Articulated Bus Garage and the associated bus storage areas. When I asked about the conflict, none of the folks at the open house knew anything about the plans for a Transitway.

[rakerman]

If he thinks $2.1 billion is too expensive, how much does he think it will cost after it is endlessly re-analysed and delayed for more years?

"But he is not so supportive of the light-rail plan. He still has doubts about the wisdom of building a tunnel, and questions whether the city can afford the plan, given it can only muster $1.8 billion, when the project costs $300 million more.

He hopes the new council will take a second look at the project and consider alternatives."

Ottawa Citizen - Watson queries cost of rail in opening salvo - Jan 13, 2010

Denley commentary on Watson's position: "surely fiddling with the bus transitway or running rail on the surface isn’t the city-building project of our generation"

Ottawa Citizen - With this platform, Watson sure to be in for a bumpy ride - Jan 13, 2010

[waterloowarrior]

NR: City Council approves next step in light rail implementation

Ottawa – City Council today approved the recommendation of its Transit Committee, approving the Recommended Plan for the Downtown Ottawa Transit Tunnel (DOTT) Planning and Environmental Assessment Study, by a vote of 19-4.

Approval of the Recommended Plan represents the next major step toward the
transformation of public transit in Ottawa by constructing a light rail transit (LRT) link between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair Road, with trains passing below downtown through twin 3.2-kilometre tunnels.

“This decision is another milestone on the way to a cleaner, more efficient transit system that’s going to benefit the economy, the environment and the people of Ottawa for decades to come,” said Ottawa Mayor Larry O’Brien.

“We’re talking about a vision for a better Ottawa, and I’m proud to work with a Council that sees the importance of realizing that vision.”

City Council’s decision to accept the Recommended Plan means the functional design for the LRT corridor and the Maintenance and Storage Facility are now approved, and directs staff to start work in several key areas:

§ Initiate the formal, expedited environmental assessment (EA) process using the functional design to define the undertaking and file the Environmental Project Report with the Ministry of the Environment;

§ Following Ministerial approval of the EA, and provided that project funding is approved as part of the 2010 budget, initiate the process of acquiring property for the project;

§ Initiate the preliminary engineering and the procurement management process; and,

§ Undertake an urban design study and a transportation study for the downtown that takes into account pedestrian, cycling facilities, and residual transit service for post-DOTT implementation.

“This is a major decision and it is a well-thought-out, well-considered decision. We have followed, and continue to follow, a process that’s going to ensure the people of Ottawa get the right rapid transit system at the right price,” said Councillor Alex Cullen, Chair of the Transit Committee.

The LRT system will cut the number of buses traveling through the city’s downtown core in half, while the number of buses running along Rideau and Wellington streets will be reduced from 2,600 per day to 600 per day. With a virtually emissions-free LRT system in operation and fewer buses and other vehicles on the road, the city will be able to reduce fuel consumption by as much as 10 million litres a year, and cut greenhouse gas emissions by up to 27 million kilograms a year. Combined with a redesigned bus system, LRT is expected to reduce transit-related operating costs by up to $100 million annually starting in 2019 – providing citizens a significant return on investment.

With the launch of the expedited EA process for public transit projects, provincial approval for the LRT project could be granted as early as May 2010.

[Kitchissippi]

Looks like the provincial Liberals are going to be playing sleazy politics with the LRT file. If the city can build within the $600 million the province promised, why should more "details" change things? If Dalton prolongs this only to help Watson win an election on it, I'll be so disgusted.

If Ottawans will be so stupid to vote in Watson and he'll get his fingers on the LRT and delay it more, then the McGuinty Liberals will lose power the following year and there will be another clash between mayor and the new provincial government.

[lrt's friend]

while the number of buses running along Rideau and Wellington streets will be reduced from 2,600 per day to 600 per day.

hmmm, does this mean what so many have predicted? Ottawa express buses will be replaced by STO express buses on Albert and Slater?

Combined with a redesigned bus system, LRT is expected to reduce transit-related operating costs by up to $100 million annually starting in 2019 – providing citizens a significant return on investment.

The real basis of this project, cost savings not service improvement. Somehow, I find this amount very hard to believe. It certainly appears that earlier promises of improved bus service connecting to LRT is a figment of everybody's imagination.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Looks like the provincial Liberals are going to be playing sleazy politics with the LRT file. If the city can build within the $600 million the province promised, why should more "details" change things? If Dalton prolongs this only to help Watson win an election on it, I'll be so disgusted.

If Ottawans will be so stupid to vote in Watson and he'll get his fingers on the LRT and delay it more, then the McGuinty Liberals will lose power the following year and there will be another clash between mayor and the new provincial government.

None of this should be any surprise. At no point have the provincial Liberals endorsed the concept of a tunnel and they have made this perfectly clear since the beginning of the tunnel discussion. Even the announcement of funding was for transit in general and not specifically for this plan. I certainly understood that. How this is sleazy, when it has been consistent with Liberal policy and Watson is a Liberal, I don't know. It is far cry from what Baird did in 2006, when funding was approved and then pulled after the city had already signed a contract. If you don't like what Watson represents, don't vote for him. At the moment, Watson has not announced his transit policy, so we shouldn't put words in his mouth.

No matter what, I still don't see smooth sailing ahead for LRT. From Wilkinson's 2006 promise that the shovel would be in the ground within a year to the current 10 year delay, I am a total skeptic.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Well, it looks as if the City's right hand and its left hand aren't speaking again: I went to the Public Information Session about the new Articulated Bus Garage last evening and found some interesting things - not the least of which is that the people designing the maintenance and storage site have not been talking with the people who have been planning the Cumberland Corridor - Hospital Link Transitway!



The red lines represent the routes which are being considered for the Hospital Link portion of the route. (Recall that these are the remaining route options available since the Browning Corridor was released in December.) There is the option of following Innes-Industrial and then cutting across to Terminal via the old Russell Road ROW (expropriation needed) or Innes - Rail line - Terminal to Hurdman. Following the old rail line is actually the preferred route since it avoids sending a bunch of buses through the Innes/Industrial/St. Laurent intersection; which is currently at a failing level (D).

However, both of these routes are effectively blocked by the new layout of the Articulated Bus Garage and the associated bus storage areas. When I asked about the conflict, none of the folks at the open house knew anything about the plans for a Transitway.

How did you find out about the meeting, it wasn't on the ottawa.ca website AFAIK.

The thing is doubly confusing. If the south-east transitway is to connect to Baseline, why build a bus garage away from the transfer station nowhere near an east-end transitway? This is an articulated bus garage being built in the inner city where light-rail is supposed to move the crowds around (not articulated buses). We have depots in the south and west already. If the transitway is to use the Cumberland Corridor - Hospital Link Transitway, why block off the only sane ROW for a proper transitway?

What do you think about the St-Laurent to rail ROW transitway connection (assuming there is a way to build it now that the bus garage sits right on the edge), is it worth the expense?

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Looks like the provincial Liberals are going to be playing sleazy politics with the LRT file. If the city can build within the $600 million the province promised, why should more "details" change things? If Dalton prolongs this only to help Watson win an election on it, I'll be so disgusted.

If Ottawans will be so stupid to vote in Watson and he'll get his fingers on the LRT and delay it more, then the McGuinty Liberals will lose power the following year and there will be another clash between mayor and the new provincial government.

Disgusted like when John Baird (rusty to his friend and light-rail killer and $37 million waster to the rest of us) allowed the transit plan to be scrapped which helped Larry "zero" O'Brien to royally mess up the city?