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  #861  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2010, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
KRON 4 reporter Mark Jones reported on the 6pm show this evening that BART moved 88,000 passengers out of downtown San Francisco within one hour after the New Year's Eve fireworks show. That's twice as fast as moving a slightly smaller crowd last year. They did it by splitting passengers up, according to final destination, between Embarcadero and Montgomery stations. BART officials intend to do this next NYE, as well as other big event nights including the 4th of July. They also beefed up the police presence 50%, and there was not a single arrest.

I'd say BART deserves some credit for keeping it together this time.
BART worked MUCH better getting people out of San Francisco than it did in getting people INTO San Francisco on NYE. The signs/warnings of service changes were not readily available in Oakland or Berkeley heading into the city, but were much better marked when heading back out of the city.

One thing beyond BART's control was a major outage of the ATM/Debit/Credit systems on NYE, which made paying for tickets very difficult, if not impossible for those of us who didn't have enough cash for our tickets and intended to use plastic to pay for fares...

For the record, I had gotten to Emeryville on NYE, took BART to San Francisco from the Ashby Station in Berkeley... Only found out later that it would have probably been easier to just travel to and from the Macarthur Station, but oh well...

Aaron (Glowrock)
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  #862  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2010, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
AC Transit reports its weekday ridership for 2Q 2009 is 236,000, so I'll update the list:

Agency - Average Weekday Ridership

San Francisco Muni - 805,600
Bay Area Rapid Transit - 354,800
Alameda Contra Costa Transit - 236,000
Santa Clara VTA - 143,600
SamTrans - 48,200
Caltrain - 40,300
Golden Gate Transit - 29,600
Eastern Contra Costa TA- 8,700
Livermore/Amador Valley TA - 6,200
Capitol Corridor (shared with Sacramento) - 5,000

Not bad!
WOW , this really shows how much people in California are not always Car Commuters. How much of that is Rail?
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  #863  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2010, 2:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
WOW , this really shows how much people in California are not always Car Commuters. How much of that is Rail?
Well, let's tally it up.

Agency - Average Weeday Unlinked Rail Trips

BART - 354,800
Muni - 186,200
Caltrain - 40,300
VTA - 33,200
Capitol Corridor - 5,000
ACE - 3,700
San Joaquins- 2,600

Let's give only half the ridership to the Bay Area for intercity railroads--it's just easier that way. Capitol Corridor is a Bay Area/Sacramento intercity railroad, and the San Joaqins are the Bay Area/Stockton intercity.

I would award all the ACE ridership to the Bay Area since it leaves the Bay Area but doesn't really hit any sizeable urbanized area. My only issue here is the lack of any verifiable ridership info--this stat comes from Wikipedia, but I can't verify it independently. The broken link was to an APTA Q3 2008 document. Since ridership on the nearby San Joaquins fell 20.56% in one recessionary year, it seems only reasonable to chop 20% off the top of this older ACE stat as well.

All told, that yields roughly 621,260 by rail on a regular workday in the Bay Area.
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  #864  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2010, 8:18 PM
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I should note I was unable to find any statistics on SFO's Airtrain. It's a six-mile long system with two lines operating 24-7, but no ridership data anywhere I can find.
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  #865  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2010, 10:13 PM
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So how's SMART coming along? When will construction finally begin? Any plans for transit oriented development in the vicinity of stations?
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  #866  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2010, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
So how's SMART coming along? When will construction finally begin? Any plans for transit oriented development in the vicinity of stations?
most construction will get started in a year or so. heres recent news re: a tod at railroad square. the sonoma county taxpayers association pisses me off so much - they oppose any tax no matter what - money for schools even!! selfish bastards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the press democrat
Builder, taxpayer groups protest SMART deal

By BLEYS W. ROSE
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

Published: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 at 6:45 p.m.
Last Modified: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 at 6:45 p.m.

Leaders of the North Coast Builders Exchange and the Sonoma County Taxpayers Association demanded Wednesday that SMART directors put a stop to negotiations between their Railroad Square project developer and a group representing labor and environmental interests.

Debate over the housing and retail project mirrors complaints the same groups have raised about the influence of the Accountable Development Coalition, composed of unions, housing advocates and environmental groups, in the Sonoma Mountain Village development in Rohnert Park.

There, the coalition has agreed to support a large-scale development of homes, businesses and industrial sites in what critics complain is a blatant attempt to buy off union and environmental opposition.

Keith Woods, executive director for the North Coast Builders Exchange, and others said Wednesday that the negotiations endorsed by SMART will result in a “project labor agreement” that will prevent non-union firms from bidding on aspects of the housing and retail project attached to the Railroad Square train station.

“There should be no discrimination in the bidding process when you use taxpayer money,” Woods said.

Jack Atkin, president of the Taxpayers Association, criticized the negotiations, contending they would limit public scrutiny over how the quarter-cent sales tax is spent on the project planned for Santa Rosa’s largest rail stop.

“It is not in the light of day. It is a back room deal,” Atkin said.

Woods and Aktin were among about a dozen people representing non-union contractors, construction companies and taxpayer groups. The contigent walked out of the SMART board’s public comment session after delivering their complaints and failing to get a response from board members.

Contacted after the four-hour board meeting, board vice-chair Debora Fudge denied the group’s allegations and said the complaints had misrepresented the nature of discussions between developer John Stewart and groups interested in different aspects of the development.

She said the agreement would not preclude non-union contractors from proposing low-cost bids on aspects of the Railroad Square project. So far, the developer has been in negotiations with the coalition, but has not begun similar talks with neighborhood and area business groups that have said they want to weigh in.

“We were surprised that the speakers were so upset because these are issues that were approved a year ago in open sessions,” Fudge said. “They are seeking inflammatory news coverage and saying things that are not true.”


Fudge said SMART had requested that the developer come to a “community benefits agreement” with the Accountable Development Coalition, along with other groups that include the West End Neighborhood Association, the Historic Railroad Square Association, the Sonoma County Bicycle Coalition. Such an agreement establishes guidelines such as affordable housing units, worker wages, green building standards and bike-friendly features, she said.

Most of those elements already are required in SMART’s request for project proposals and the agreement ensures that the desires of interested community groups are taken into consideration by the developer, she said. She said the SMART board has the right to reject the agreement.

SMART, short for the Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit system, is developing a 71-mile line from Cloverdale to Larkspur with rail stations in Railroad Square, Coddingtown, Petaluma and Cloverdale that are attracting attention from an array of groups interested in transit-oriented projects.
and theyre having another public meeting on the rail vehicles:

Quote:
Originally Posted by the press democrat
Public input sought for SMART trains' setup

By BOB NORBERG
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

Published: Sunday, January 3, 2010 at 2:27 p.m.
Last Modified: Sunday, January 3, 2010 at 2:27 p.m.

The public will get a second chance to tell Sonoma-Marin Area Rail Transit planners what they would like the rail cars to look like at a hearing in San Rafael.

Rail system directors already have chosen self-propelled, American-style, heavy railroad cars for the 71-mile line, which is scheduled to begin running in 2014 from Cloverdale to Larkspur.

Some extras for riders already are planned, such as wireless Internet access, power strips to plug in laptops, reading lights and overhead luggage racks.

What’s left are decisions on how many and the types of seats and whether there are bathrooms, food and drink concessions and bicycle racks.

The first hearing was held in Santa Rosa. Attendees representing the disabled asked for 32-inch-wide aisles to accommodate wheelchairs and bicycling advocates suggested using some fold-up seats to provide for 15 to 20 percent space for bicycles.

SMART is ordering 22 cars, which will run in dual pairs, at a cost of $80 million to $90 million.

The board of directors will make a final decision in March.

LTK Engineering Services of Ambler, Pa., is developing the specifications, which will include such performance criteria as ride, vibration, side sway, acceleration and braking.

The hearing will be at 1:30 p.m. Jan. 13 at the San Rafael Corporate Center’s Tamalpais Meeting Room, 750 Lindaro St.

You can reach Staff Writer Bob Norberg at 521-5206 or [email protected].
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/201...tle=Public-imput-sought-on-SMART-trains-
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Last edited by northbay; Jan 7, 2010 at 12:10 AM.
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  #867  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2010, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by the transport politic
Crossing the Bay Again — But Not Necessarily with BART

A Geary Boulevard heavy rail line could dramatically improve transportation in San Francisco. Yet connecting it to the regional network wouldn’t require using — and perhaps shouldn’t use — BART technology.

The dream for a Geary Boulevard rail line connecting downtown San Francisco to the Richmond neighborhood to its west has been around for decades — at least since 1961 when a proposal for a line to Marin County was being considered. In the early 1970s, it appeared that the project could be complete by 1980 and serve as the first extension of what was then the new BART rapid transit system; another study in 1974 indicated the possibility of extending the light rail Muni Metro along the street. Yet it was not to be.

As the Bay Area plans for its future growth, the project may well be worth reconsidering. Building it in coordination with a new Transbay Tube for California High-Speed trains could save costs and make the proposal a reality.

As costs rose over the years, the possibility for a full-scale Bay Area rapid transit system, especially one focusing on serving San Francisco’s urban core, fell apart. In recent years, the city has invested considerable sums in the creation of the new light rail Muni Metro line along Third Street to underserved Bayview and will soon begin building an extension into Chinatown called the Central Subway; Marin and Somona Counties are planning a new DMU commuter line that will connect to a ferry, having abandoned expensive plans for a direct rail connection into the region’s core; meanwhile, the South Bay is planning to spent billions of dollars on an expansion of BART to San Jose.

In the meantime, San Francisco’s Richmond community has been generally ignored, despite the fact that buses running along Geary Boulevard through the center of the neighborhood carry more than 100,000 daily commuters, making them some of the heaviest-used in North America. Development along the corridor is pretty dense, and there are plenty of land plots ready for redevelopment. The city is planning a relatively cheap bus rapid transit program on the street, but that line won’t do much to speed up the travel of the area’s hundreds of thousands of commuters nor will it connect them directly with other destinations in the greater Bay Area. To put it simply, Geary Boulevard demands a subway rapid transit line linked to the regional network.

In fact, planners have been bringing up the plans for years, usually as an extension of a new BART line running in a second Transbay Tube. The existing BART line between San Francisco and Oakland is operating at capacity, meaning that the Geary corridor simply couldn’t act as a spur from the Market Street main line. But the need to build a new downtown San Francisco line provides a new opportunity to connect the planned Transbay Transit Center to the Bay Area’s transit system and it opens the possibility of running high-speed and commuter trains from San Francisco to Oakland in a shared tunnel. Coordinating the Transbay Center, a Geary Subway, and the new Transbay Tube would produce a program of regional interest and save costs in the long term by merging several construction projects in one.

Using BART technology along the line would require building a four-track tube under the San Francisco Bay: BART trains run on track with a wider gauge than that planned for California High-Speed Rail and used by Caltrain; they also use a third rail power source, versus the overhead catenary planned for the other trains.

Though any new Transbay Tube — which would have to be more than three miles long — would cost billions of dollars, requiring that it be four-tracked would raise the price exponentially, making it all the more unlikely to be built. But there’s a solution: the new Geary line doesn’t have to use existing BART technology and instead could use off-the-rack traditional trains compatible with the high-speed trains. This would allow transit planners to build just two new tracks under the Bay and improve cost efficiencies by ensuring a full-capacity use of the new line. Rapid transit trains using the same tracks as high-speed and Caltrain trainsets could provide just as high of a frequency, reliability, and speed as BART.

A 5.85-mile route under Geary Boulevard, running to 33rd Avenue in Outer Richmond, might include 8 stations, including one at Transbay. Though some previous proposals had indicated the possibility of running the line partially along an elevated structure, the line would have to be built in a subway for the sake of satisfying neighborhood concerns. Fortunately, modern automated boring machines have cheapened the cost and reduced the environmental side-effects of tunneling.

Integrated into the Downtown Extension project, which will bring Caltrain (and high-speed rail) from its existing terminus and 4th and King Streets to the new Transbay Center, the new Geary Line would have a direct link to regional connections. At a new station near Union Square, the corridor could offer connections to BART’s Powell or Montgomery Stations; similarly, it would have a direct link there with the Central Subway and T-Third Street Muni Metro Service.

Once the new Geary Line crosses the Bay, a new station at Alameda Point would connect with a huge redevelopment zone on the site of a former naval base. Then, running north in a new 4.45-mile tunnel under Oakland’s Cypress Street, the line could connect directly to BART at West Oakland, where massive neighborhood reconstruction is a possibility. Though West Oakland is relatively low density, the surrounding industrial zones are likely to be replaced by housing during the next few decades, requiring better public transportation.

Caltrain trains would be diverted 1.6 miles east along the existing rail line to Oakland’s Jack London Station, where they would terminate and offer connections to Amtrak trains. High-speed trains could continue running north and south along the East Bay, using the existing Amtrak corridor.

To save costs, the new Geary line, existing the new Oakland tunnel, would connect to the existing Capitol Corridor rail line used by Amtrak and run 4.75 miles along the west side of Emeryville and Berkeley, finally reconnecting to BART at El Cerrito Plaza via a 0.8-mile tunnel under Albany Hill Park. The service could also be continued north for 3.75 miles to Richmond, again along the existing Capitol Corridor, where another BART link-up is possible. The areas reached by this line are about a mile and a half from existing BART stations and are of moderate, though increasing, density. The new line would open up a large new area of the region to direct access to the San Francisco core, increasing transit ridership and encouraging development.

There are several drawbacks to this expensive proposal: one of the purposes of a new Transbay Tube would be to reinforce the existing one and serve as a temporary replacement in case of failure or maintenance. By eliminating BART trains from the tunnel, that possibility is limited, though an easy transfer at West Oakland could work almost as well. Meanwhile, the lack of interconnectivity with BART means a required switch of lines for travelers trying to use the new Geary line.

One could also make the argument that the most suitable areas in Oakland for new transit are further inland — but building there, versus along an existing rail line ringing the Bay, would cost much more. It would be possible to extend the Geary Line in phases, however, with future connections throughout Oakland, serving as something as a parallel network to BART. Similarly, if the new Transbay Tube proves too expensive in the medium-term, the Geary Line could simply terminate at the Transbay Center along with high-speed and Caltrain services (though that would require a much larger structure than currently planned).

The overall benefits of running the Geary line as a catenary-based conventional rail system would save the region billions of dollars over a BART-based alternative: The new Transbay Tunnel could be two-tracked, rather than have four tracks; Geary line trains could use the existing rail corridors in the East Bay without requiring the complete reconstruction of the corridor; and the expense of the Transbay Center would be reduced as high-speed, regional, and local trains could share tracks.

An exciting possibility. Now where are the funds?



source: http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/06/crossing-the-bay-again-but-not-necessarily-with-bart/

i have to say i like the ideas yonah (the author) brings up. what do u guys think? can we build something like this within our lifetimes? or is this a pipe dream?
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  #868  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2010, 11:42 PM
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i have to say i like the ideas yonah (the author) brings up. what do u guys think? can we build something like this within our lifetimes? or is this a pipe dream?
Agreed.

His two best ideas:

*Conventional, off-the-shelf heavy rail for the Geary corridor through downtown and over to Transbay, with downtown transfers to Muni and BART subways. Cheaper than BART's proprietary stuff, more capacity than light rail for Muni's busiest (non-downtown) transit corridor.

*A second transbay tunnel with standard-gauge rail to Alameda/Oakland. It would not only help redevelop the old naval base, but it might also allow for regular Amtrak service into the City via Oakland. Perhaps even HSR could roll through that tunnel on dedicated tracks if necessary--Penninsula NIMBYs seem determined, as usual, to keep all change from touching their little garden suburbs.
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  #869  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 12:15 AM
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Agreed.

His two best ideas:

*Conventional, off-the-shelf heavy rail for the Geary corridor through downtown and over to Transbay, with downtown transfers to Muni and BART subways. Cheaper than BART's proprietary stuff, more capacity than light rail for Muni's busiest (non-downtown) transit corridor.

*A second transbay tunnel with standard-gauge rail to Alameda/Oakland. It would not only help redevelop the old naval base, but it might also allow for regular Amtrak service into the City via Oakland. Perhaps even HSR could roll through that tunnel on dedicated tracks if necessary--Penninsula NIMBYs seem determined, as usual, to keep all change from touching their little garden suburbs.
i think this would be fantastic. that means u would be able to take hsr from sf to sac VIA OAKLAND (either thru the altamont or capitol corridor right of ways). and the transbay terminal being an amtrak TRAIN station? this would be train porn.
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  #870  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 12:27 AM
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i think this would be fantastic. that means u would be able to take hsr from sf to sac VIA OAKLAND (either thru the altamont or capitol corridor right of ways). and the transbay terminal being an amtrak TRAIN station? this would be train porn.
It's all pure speculation, of course. But we have needed both a Geary subway and a second Transbay train tunnel for decades now, and this could solve both those problems. Smart blog.
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  #871  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 1:17 AM
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A nice fantasy but it will never actually fly. And let's not forget that the reason the Geary corridor gets ignored is that there's no consensus among residents and businesses along Geary in favor of rail transit, especially underground rail transit.

Personally, only one thing about the idea excites me: the potential to bring long distance rail to points other than SoCal into downtown SF. Otherwise, I don't see it as better or more likely to happen than a BART or Muni Metro extension out Geary.
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  #872  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 1:27 AM
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A nice fantasy but it will never actually fly. And let's not forget that the reason the Geary corridor gets ignored is that there's no consensus among residents and businesses along Geary in favor of rail transit, especially underground rail transit.
When was an actual proposal for rail transit on Geary realistically proposed (voter proposition or actual Muni/SFCTA/MTA proposal with funding scenarios - like the current BART to SJ plan or Central Subway - some funding has been in place for years for both of those projects, but funding for a Geary subway has never been put in place, so there has never been anything to get behind OR campaign against, as is the case with Geary BRT)? The current line amongst the Geary merchants is that BRT shouldn't be pursued because a BART subway would be better. To my knowledge, there has never been a proposal with teeth that would put rail on Geary, since the 1933 proposition vote. The actual BART propositions always had Geary as a future corridor, and there has never been a Muni proposal for rail that actually had money behind it like the Central Subway, for example, since the 1933 vote.
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Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 1:39 AM
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If the Richmond movers and shakers had demanded a subway line in unison like Chinatown did, there would have been "an actual proposal" long ago. Nobody gets anything in SF without neighborhood consensus and there is none in the Richmond.
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Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 2:11 AM
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I suppose. I'm not aware of Chinatown pushing "in unison" for a subway until it was an actual proposal from Willie Brown (prop K in 2003 and prop B funding prior to that), but perhaps I'm wrong. As I'm sure you know, many of the details of the plan were ironed out after it was determined that the Embarcadero Freeway would be torn down as a "consolation prize" - and Chinatown was VERY torn on what to do before that, with most (but not all) merchants VERY opposed to a subway and VERY supportive of rebuilding the freeway. What Geary needs is leadership from politicians (either a mayor or a few supervisors), not some vague agreement amongst merchants on only one portion of the street (Richmond merchants and residents have different goals/desires than Japantown, Fillmore, Cathedral Hill, etc, etc merchants and residents).
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Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 4:05 AM
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If the Richmond movers and shakers had demanded a subway line in unison like Chinatown did, there would have been "an actual proposal" long ago. Nobody gets anything in SF without neighborhood consensus and there is none in the Richmond.
not too familiar with sf politics but doesnt chinatown have much more political clout than the richmond anyway? i dont blame the merchants for opposing brt as it will eliminate a regular traffic lane.

really, be it standard gauge heavy rail or bart, the geary corridor needs underground rail, period. i dont think even muni will cut it (with its slower speeds and small trains).

gordo, u say there was a proposition in 1933 to bring rail to geary. 80 years ago?!?!? man, thats depressing.
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Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 4:07 AM
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What are we talking about here? EMUs in a subway, like a regional rail system?
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Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 4:13 AM
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What are we talking about here? EMUs in a subway, like a regional rail system?
i believe he means heavy metro trains (standard gauge)
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Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 5:49 AM
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How is that different than BART as it currently exists? I mean, BART has wider gauge and fully-automated operation, but those don't add cost (automation has capital cost for signal systems and programming, but saves cost in the long run, since you're not paying for a skilled motorman).
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Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 6:30 AM
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How is that different than BART as it currently exists? I mean, BART has wider gauge and fully-automated operation, but those don't add cost (automation has capital cost for signal systems and programming, but saves cost in the long run, since you're not paying for a skilled motorman).
The equipment is all custom and more expensive and you ARE paying for a "skilled motorman"--whether he actually does anything or not, he's there and he's union.

As for Geary, what the merchants don't like is the loss of PARKING. And they'd just love the idea of potential customers whizzing by their locations out of sight underground I'm sure.

A Geary line (leading to a Golden Gate crossing to Marin) was part of the original BART plan but got canned when Marin voted not to participate (i.e. tax itself) in BART.

The Richmond doesn't have the clout of Chinatown because they aren't organized as well and, as I said, they rarely speak with a unified voice. But, if they could find such a voice they could potentially have as much clout as Chinatown and quite possibly more--they have the population of regular voters and the economic resources. Much of Chinatown is poor with the exception of a few wealthy "community leaders" but the Richmond is decidedly middle class, even affluent (it's where many Asian immigrants move from Chinatown to when they make some money after all).
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Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 4:12 PM
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A Geary line (leading to a Golden Gate crossing to Marin) was part of the original BART plan but got canned when Marin voted not to participate (i.e. tax itself) in BART.
sonoma hasnt forgotton how marin shafted the north bay when it voted to be left out of the bart tax district. thats y we shoved smart down their throats.

i dream of a second golden gate crossing (an floating underwater tunnel maybe) to connect smart to the transbay terminal basically along the old proposed bart right of way along geary. smart could then use emus (or if doesnt want to electrify the entire line - hybrids - yes, they do exist and will probably be used for caltrain as the section to salinas wont be electrified), and hsr could continue to the north bay.

now unfortunately, THAT will never happen.
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"I firmly believe, from what I have seen, that this is the chosen spot of all this Earth as far as Nature is concerned." - Luther Burbank on Sonoma County.

Pictures of Santa Rosa, So. Co.
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