[Halifax] RBC Waterside Centre | 37 m | 9 fl | Completed

[beyeas]

http://www.hpwatersidecentre.ca/assets/Tab%2003/market%20rent%20opinion.pdf

Not sure if others have seen this yet. It makes for some interesting overall reading... and it does seem to make the case that a) there remains significant risk for building class A space at the current rent levels, and interestingly b) there does still seem to be a case that can be made for a new tall office building with large floor plates (see his comment about businesses wanting both very large floor plates and the views associated with being in a "tall" building).

Interesting to think about this in the context of the other proposed office buildings.

[mcmcclassic]

That article proves that converting heritage (or other small DT) buildings into class "A" office space is not the ideal way to go due to the lack of space on a single floor. The article proposes that we need buildings with wider floors, and floors which offer a view-- my definition of a tower. It's certainly a positive article for any tower proposals for sure.

[someone123]

Yeah, it is misleading to look at half-empty heritage buildings downtown. They are only for certain tenants, while others need larger, more modern buildings. I've worked even in mid-sized offices with 100-200 people and having to hunt people down across multiple floors was a bit of a pain. I also know somebody who works at a company in Burnside that located there simply because their deals for space in the city fell through. If companies can't find good space, they move to the suburbs, and Halifax has seen lots of new suburban office buildings.

I have the feeling that there is demand for a new, full-sized office tower along with a couple of smaller buildings like Waterside Centre. Some of the tenants might come from existing buildings downtown, but like I said in another thread I don't see that as a huge issue since it leaves cheaper space for other companies that otherwise couldn't operate downtown, and I am guessing that by now the companies that have built 60s and 70s offices have made plenty of money off of them. It is also pretty easy to convert more modern office buildings to residential or hotel.

[sdm]

Armour project proving 'very difficult'

By ROGER TAYLOR Business Editor
Wed. Jan 6 - 4:46 AM

ARMOUR CONSTRUCTION has started working on the controversial Waterside Centre development in downtown Halifax, but it will be a while longer before actual construction begins.

The project calls for the facades of six historic buildings on a block bounded by Hollis, Duke and Upper Water streets to be maintained while a new nine-storey metal and glass structure is built on the inside.

"Technically this is a very, very difficult project," says veteran Halifax developer Ben McCrea, chairman of Armour Group.

"Part of what makes it so difficult is trying to put a level of underground parking underneath of it all.

"We’ve got water problems, then we’ve got soil problems and we’ve got (wooden) piles."

McCrea said trying to deal with all those issues makes it even more difficult to contend with retaining the facades of all those buildings.

A structure he referred to as "the stone building" is being taken apart beam-by-beam, piece-by-piece. The timbers will be used to shore up the exterior walls of the buildings during construction.

"We’re in there under the old Imperial Oil building digging down in the basement by hand . . . down 10 feet in what used to be Halifax Harbour. We’re trying to figure out what the foundations of that building are, what they look like and how strong they are," he said.

The wooden piles upon which the building was constructed will be necessary to hold up the façade of the old building, which was most recently home to O’Carroll’s Restaurant. The new building will be constructed on much stronger drilled caisson piles to be located 1.5 metres inside the perimeter of the old structure.

McCrea said some tests have been done on the wooden piles and he’s optimistic he’ll be able to avoid having to tear down the facade and rebuild it.

"It’s a very complicated, very difficult job and we’re pretty well through the working drawing phase of it now. It takes a long time but we’re pretty much there," he said.

The plan for Waterside Centre was initially rejected by the regional council in a tie vote in October 2008 but, upon appeal from Armour Group, council’s decision was overturned by the Nova Scotia Utility and Review Board last March.

"I’ve stated many times this Waterside project is a have-to project, not a want-to. What were we going to do, sit down there and have them collapse around us? And I didn’t want demolishing them on my record. So it was something we had to do," McCrea told me in a phone interview Tuesday.

Waterside is a small project in modern development terms. It will create only about 80,000 square feet of space but McCrea — who celebrated his 70th birthday on New Year’s Day — declares it is the most difficult of any project he’s ever undertaken.

There’s no rock to brace things against, he said. The rock is about six metres below the water table.

The windows in the buildings are currently boarded over in an effort to prohibit vandalism.

"I can’t afford to have a fire down there. Somebody would accuse me of lighting my pipe," he joked.

In the meantime, Armour Group is going to start pre-leasing the new building "in a big way" this week.

"We’ve done . . . some testing of the market and obviously talked to some people, but things have been slow so far . . . so we’re hoping there will be a little more activity in 2010."

McCrea said he cannot afford to hold off on construction until 2011. It would be nice to have some of the building pre-leased but he doesn’t have the luxury of sitting on the buildings until market conditions improve.

"We have an obligation . . . to get along with this sooner rather than later."

Construction will likely begin in the second half of this year.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Why don't they just rebuild the buildings and their facads on another piece of land and built an entirely modern tower? This process seems rediculous.

[JET]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Why don't they just rebuild the buildings and their facads on another piece of land and built an entirely modern tower? This process seems rediculous.

It is an historic area; seems like the least that they could do is to maintain the facades. They'll make it work, they just need to compalin a bit. JET

[sdm]

Originally Posted by JET

It is an historic area; seems like the least that they could do is to maintain the facades. They'll make it work, they just need to compalin a bit. JET

I don't see them as complaining more that they are stating its a techincal challenge when it comes to a straight out of the ground development.

There will be a number of developments like Salters, Queens, International place that will be facing the same soil and water issues, which make developing them a challenge.

[sdm]

took a run by the website today and theres a new rendering on the website

http://www.hpwatersidecentre.ca/index.html

[someone123]

New:


Old:


The changes look very positive. I prefer the break in the side wall and the recessed roof. My biggest issue with the project's design is the Hollis Street side, however - hopefully that's been improved as well.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by someone123

New:


Old:


The changes look very positive. I prefer the break in the side wall and the recessed roof. My biggest issue with the project's design is the Hollis Street side, however - hopefully that's been improved as well.

The Hollis street side looks unchanged as it is the mechanical and stairwell side of the building.

At least it will have treatment of sand stone and what not done to it. The setback on the roof looks better and the curtain wall being broken up like that has give it a less then a box feel.

[worldlyhaligonian]

It looks way better.

I hope they fix the other side (get rid of dormers and make the wall flush).

[someone123]

I find it very interesting how small architectural changes can make a building look so much better. Just breaking up the facade makes it feel like it fits in with buildings like Morse's Teas, even though it is much larger. Design is much more important than the size of the building.

I'd love to see more development around this. If and when IP happens there will be a really nice mix of old and new. Taking out the Law Courts bunker would also be a huge improvement.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by someone123

I find it very interesting how small architectural changes can make a building look so much better. Just breaking up the facade makes it feel like it fits in with buildings like Morse's Teas, even though it is much larger. Design is much more important than the size of the building.

I'd love to see more development around this. If and when IP happens there will be a really nice mix of old and new. Taking out the Law Courts bunker would also be a huge improvement.

You're totally right and they way I see it, IP is a huge catalyst for the Halifax CBD. I think a good influx of office development (IP, Waterside, TD Expansion, etc) will end up bringing more residential downtown. Even the new Dal buildings probably create jobs that should be close to the campus.

The Trillium is a good start for downtown residential, but we need to see more. I'm not even going to consider UG a go. Nova Centre would be huge in terms of a mixed use development.

The 1960's-2006 trend of a shrinking peninsular population is scary stuff.

[City_of_Lakes]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

You're totally right and they way I see it, IP is a huge catalyst for the Halifax CBD. I think a good influx of office development (IP, Waterside, TD Expansion, etc) will end up bringing more residential downtown. Even the new Dal buildings probably create jobs that should be close to the campus.

The Trillium is a good start for downtown residential, but we need to see more. I'm not even going to consider UG a go. Nova Centre would be huge in terms of a mixed use development.

The 1960's-2006 trend of a shrinking peninsular population is scary stuff.

Very scary stuff indeed. Frustrating to see how policy on development has affected growth patterns in this city.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by City_of_Lakes

Very scary stuff indeed. Frustrating to see how policy on development has affected growth patterns in this city.

Yeah that one stat really jumps off the page doesn't it! It is always frustrating to hear all the resentment at public meetings towards the downtown core (that somehow they think it gets everything, when nothing could be farther from the truth). We certainly risk becoming one of these "hollowed out in the middle" cities that you see in the US (cities like Dallas etc come to mind).

[someone123]

That statistic is pretty misleading, although it's true that there should be more development and more people on the peninsula.

It's not a 1961-2006 trend, it's a ~1961-1996 trend. The 2001 and 2006 censuses showed increases in the city and I would guess that the gains in inner city areas in particular are accelerating.

One aspect of this is that a lot of the population losses are just due to shrinking household sizes. A lot of the households that in the 60s had a large family in them are now retirees. The average housing unit in Halifax has about 2.5 people living in it today. That might have been 4 or 5 people a few decades ago.

Another consideration is that other uses have replaced residential, and it's possible that many residents (students) are not counted properly.

I don't think we should worry directly about what the population used to be in 1961, I think we should worry about what is necessary to support business and good service levels in the city.

[Architype]

This is quite a nice looking and well executed development. Those both criticizing and touting the Fortis Development in St. John's NL could probably learn something here.

[someone123]

St. John's seems to have some of the same issues as Halifax when it comes to development - there's too much polarized debate over whether or not there should be new/tall buildings, when in reality the most meaningful issue is building design. There's no particular reason why there can't be modern buildings in parts of downtown St. John's, and they don't have to look like those...

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by someone123

St. John's seems to have some of the same issues as Halifax when it comes to development - there's too much polarized debate over whether or not there should be new/tall buildings, when in reality the most meaningful issue is building design. There's no particular reason why there can't be modern buildings in parts of downtown St. John's, and they don't have to look like those...

No offense to St. John's, but the attitude towards downtown development seems WAY worse there than it does in Halifax. For example, have you read the comments on that story? Good god thats sad. I mean sure the building isnt that great looking and is a bit of a box, but the attitude seems to be towards development in general.

[Dmajackson]

From today;