Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

The Stadium is directly under the path that the broken anchor took after the explosion in the harbour. The anchor from the Mont Blanc landed in the Edmonds Grounds 2.4 miles from the explosion site. Maybe the anchor could be moved to the Stadium entrance where it would receive much more exposure.

I think that this would be a great idea. This part of town would have had numerous heritage buildings that were demolished by the Halifax Explosion. Having a nicely designed stadium in the area with statues and exhibits would be a great way to draw attention to the historic nature of this area. Especially for visitors who might know very little about that Halifax Explosion story. During the excavation, there would likely be numerous artifacts found that could be displayed. Also a nicely designed Stadium would be one more way of showing how Halifax has been rebuilt after the Explosion.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I think that this would be a great idea. This part of town would have had numerous heritage buildings that were demolished by the Halifax Explosion. Having a nicely designed stadium in the area with statues and exhibits would be a great way to draw attention to the historic nature of this area. Especially for visitors who might know very little about that Halifax Explosion story. During the excavation, there would likely be numerous artifacts found that could be displayed. Also a nicely designed Stadium would be one more way of showing how Halifax has been rebuilt after the Explosion.

This could be a major tourist attraction. Each year a memorial could be held in the stadium. The exhibits could be a fantastic addition and provide a use year round. This may seem like a stretch but they are looking for a new home for the science discovery centre so why not add that to the facility and create a multi purpose centre. Funding could then come from many sources.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I agree across the board... The revenue geared parts of the stadium make it much more feasible, as they absorb alot of the cost.

Potential Revenue streams:

1) Hotel portion: I think it would work for the neighborhood, especially with the grocery store, tim hortons, and gas station in close proximity.

2) Retail: Gift shop which could sell all kinds of items (Nova Scotian stuff to atheletics), I think there could be other retail options that could keep the place active

3) Food & Beverage: I think that the stadium could benefit from using a franchising model... I would say 2-3 different types of food (all stadium oriented)

the metropark is exactly what I was thinking of for the parking garage

[MaritimeCFLFan]

Originally Posted by Empire

Excellent work on the 3D model fenwick. If built at Willow Park what do you think of the name [WILLOW PARK MEMORIAL STADIUM]? This could be an official tribute to the Halifax explosion. Perhaps the CFL team could be called the Halifax Explosion?

I agree 100% that this is a great idea for a name. If the Halifax Explosion could be tied into a new stadium proposal in some way I think it would help gain this proposal some added traction with HRM councillors and the people they represent, especially with the 100 year anniversary approaching. Moving the anchor and putting up monuments outside the stadium are also awesome ideas. Perhaps incorporating a museum that deals only with the Halifax Explosion within the stadium somewhere would be another great idea.

[fenwick16]

I am currently thinking about the roof design (for each section of seating, not the entire stadium). I would appreciate suggestions and opinions on the design. Both cost and function are required. There are some very cheap designs that would detract from the aesthetics of the stadium. Coming up with a roof design should not be a problem (since there are many choices), it is just the cost.

One that I like is the Alamodome design. This uses 4 columns in each corner with suspension cables to support the roof. Since we have a much smaller area to cover the columns wouldn't have to be as high since our exterior walls are much lower (500 feet by 120 feet for each section of stands, with the corner section of roof attached directly to these columns). It also brings up a point to consider. If the columns are strong enough, and the stadium is extremely successful then in 5 - 10 years after construction, having a complete roof (during the winter only) might become a requirement. If the sideline seating section roof is strong enough then it might be possible to also use it to support a roof over the field during the winter that could be assembled in say one day. If there is to be an extremely heavy snowfall it could be removed in a day (if the snow fall would exceed the strength of the roof). Also, it could possibly be assembled for large concerts to protect the concert goers on the field. Essentially it would be a giant canopy style roof covering the field supported by the roof of the seating sections.

Another type of roof is the one proposed for the new Winnipeg Stadium ( http://www.blueandgold.ca/ ). This looks like it might become costly though. Maybe a variation of this type.

Then there are cheap cantilever and internally supported roofs (like at the Halifax Forum and Fenway Park). An interesting link to information on stadium construction and a few different types of roofs is at http://www.grandstands.net/canopy_roof.htm .

QUESTION for people on this forum: I am going to use guesstimates below based on my gut feeling in order to illustrate a point (these are not real numbers):
Flat Slanted Roof with some internal supports about half way up the stands - (for example) say would be $5,000,000 for both stands (total price).
Flat Slanted Roof that is externally supported, i.e. columnless design (cantilevered design, or externally supported with exterior columns and cables, or using a very large King Trusses like in the Halifax Metro Centre) - (for example) say would be $6,000,000 - $10,000,000 for both roofs (total price).
Unique Modern Design like the newly proposed Winnipeg Stadium Roof
- (for example) say $20,000,000.
Very unique elaborate design - $50,000,000 plus

At one time I thought that any large roof will be extremely expensive. Based on what I have read, this is not the case. In our case, the roof sections, although large, are not nearly as large as many stadiums throughout the world. I think that a roof completely covering the stands and extending right to the edge of the field will be very important for HRM stadium goers. If cost limited the stadium design to an internally supported roof with a few columns halfway up the stands (in the aisles to minimize obstruction) would this be acceptable? Similar to Fenway Park. Perhaps it could be internally supported with the possibility of becoming externally supported in the future (columnless design).

I think that this is an important consideration for the people on this forum, since when it comes time to design the stadium by the HRM, the design can be based on the wishes of the people who will use the stadium. If the cost choice is (a) a roof covering only half of the spectators in each section of stands using an externally supported roof or (b) having a few hundred (perhaps a couple thousand) slightly obstructed seats in the upper seats only but having cover for all the spectators - which option is preferable? For me, I would pick (b) since the people paying the premium price in the lower bowl should expect to have cover from the elements. Personally, whenever I see a partial roof I think that the designers got it wrong since the ones paying the highest prices are the ones that will get soaked on a rainy day. This is just my opinion, I hope that I am not offending anyone.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

This could be a major tourist attraction. Each year a memorial could be held in the stadium. The exhibits could be a fantastic addition and provide a use year round. This may seem like a stretch but they are looking for a new home for the science discovery centre so why not add that to the facility and create a multi purpose centre. Funding could then come from many sources.

I hadn't thought of this, but having the discovery centre in the stadium along with a Halifax Explosion museum would be a fantastic idea. The idea is to get as many people as possible coming to this part of town. If the stadium is built as an attraction then tours of the stadium could also be conducted (this is done at many stadiums, I have been on tours of the Skydome and Lucus Oil Stadium in Indianapolis). The Halifax Memorial Stadium might not be as elaborate as the Skydome but if built with lots of landscaping it could be just as interesting. This could become our Camden Yards of football stadiums. An interesting stadium that is fun to go to that is build at a relatively modest price.

[worldlyhaligonian]

What about incorporating a transit element for Metro transit?

[Empire]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

What about incorporating a transit element for Metro transit?

I think we should keep a list of possibilities to incorporate into the stadium
- transit terminal
- discovery centre
- halifax explosion museum
- hotel
- afforadable housing
- shops
- some sort of military museum to be part of the explosion portion?
- botanical garden as an extension of north end landscaping.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I am currently thinking about the roof design (for each section of seating, not the entire stadium). I would appreciate suggestions and opinions on the design. Both cost and function are required. There are some very cheap designs that would detract from the aesthetics of the stadium. Coming up with a roof design should not be a problem (since there are many choices), it is just the cost.

Take a look at this roof at Coca-cola park in Johannesburg SA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:South_Africa-Johannesburg-Stadiums001.jpg

[MaritimeCFLFan]

I have posted a link to the new Halifaxstadium.ca site on the cfl.ca forum site. It's in the CFL Talk section.

[-Harlington-]

i think you have done some really good and detirined work here fenwick.
i know mostly everyone has their hearts set on the dnd willow park lands but as for the incorperating part i think if that waterfront idea still went through an aquarium could be put in there.
also for the willow park i like hotels and musem ideas, thats proven good for olympic stadium in montreal for the gardens and the biodome, maybe we can think of something unique to our area like different fish enviroments lol, i dont know but you get the idea

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

Take a look at this roof at Coca-cola park in Johannesburg SA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:South_Africa-Johannesburg-Stadiums001.jpg

There are two stadiums in this photo. The one in the foreground looks very modern but also expensive (I could be wrong since it is fabric). The one in the background looks more sturdy. So I kind of prefer the one in the background.

In my head, I have this image of a a large canopy that can be connected to the edge of the roofs of the two stands for concerts and other events but not football. The reason is, that along the midpoint of the football field (lengthwise) would be 10-12 support columns about 90 feet high (but not extremely heavy) which would be like tent supports that would have anchor points on the field (under the turf) that would support a canopy for concerts and events when the field is not required for a sporting event. This would be like a Shrinders circus tent (Big Top Tent). Like this but somewhat bigger: http://www.swamptrust.org.uk/BigTop/Big%20Festival%20tent%20from%20swamp%20Circus%202008.jpg. So instead of an expensive retractable roof that would cost a fortune, it would be a canopy that could be set up in a matter of hours or a day for special events. I am sure that this could be done relatively inexpensively, although it would require some design work.

If the roof for the stands is supported by 6 masts (exterior columns, 3 on each side) then the 10-12 support columns on the field might not be required to support the canopy since it could be supported by the externals masts). Similar to the front stadium in the link that you provided of the Coca Cola Park. I wonder if there is a way to do it without them being so obvious. This type of roof structure is becoming more prominently used, look at this rendition of the BC Stadium new roof
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_O4D2cm1fTKc/Sd...0Vancouver%2520skyline%2520Rendering.jpg

[hfx_chris]

Okay here's my thoughts on a roof. It has to be functional from the inside, covering as many seats as possible - but I think it has to look interesting from the outside. Some are very utilitarian looking, but that's not very 'sexy'. I always liked the look of the roof from Halifax's 2014 CWG bid stadium:





Yeah it looks flashy, but it looks nice. I'm sure it could also be built to cover more of the stands, and maybe slightly lower supporting towers, but it does look nice, and you'd definitely see it from quite a way away, no matter where the stadium is built.

I also want to comment on the exterior cladding. As I recall from last night, your rendering uses brick. I dunno, I always find brick kinda boring in large structures like this. What if there was more glass incorporated into the exterior? Something perhaps like Hamilton's proposed CWG stadium, where you can see the concourse, the internal structure, supports, columns and people:



Just a couple of thoughts.

[-Harlington-]

i always liked the stadium we never got.
it looks great and would have been amazing.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Okay here's my thoughts on a roof. It has to be functional from the inside, covering as many seats as possible - but I think it has to look interesting from the outside. Some are very utilitarian looking, but that's not very 'sexy'. I always liked the look of the roof from Halifax's 2014 CWG bid stadium:

Yeah it looks flashy, but it looks nice. I'm sure it could also be built to cover more of the stands, and maybe slightly lower supporting towers, but it does look nice, and you'd definitely see it from quite a way away, no matter where the stadium is built.

I also want to comment on the exterior cladding. As I recall from last night, your rendering uses brick. I dunno, I always find brick kinda boring in large structures like this. What if there was more glass incorporated into the exterior? Something perhaps like Hamilton's proposed CWG stadium, where you can see the concourse, the internal structure, supports, columns and people:

Just a couple of thoughts.

I actually like glass around the stadium also. This was a mistake in the model that I made; the upper white cladding was meant to be be tinted glass so that it would be illuminated at night. I will fix this. I might leave some brick near the bottom for now.

I also like the way the Commonwealth Stadium had the roof supported with masts. I think that I will try this. Although I understand the reason for designing the Commonwealth Stadium the way that they did, I would like it better if was a complete oval, or at least somehow tied the two stands together so that it would feel more like a stadium. Otherwise, it just seems like individual stands.

[dmont]

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[fenwick16]

Thanks for making a logo dmont. It looks good to me. It might need to vary somewhat depending on the location of a stadium (for example a Halifax Memorial logo might need to be related more to the Halifax Explosion).

[hfx_chris]

I think the logo could definitely come after the stadium is actually designed, would be nice if the logo had the same "feel" as the design of the stadium.

Curious about the stars along the top though... looks a little NFL-ish to me but still great job designing it!

[hfx_chris]

Can somebody please double-check the website out in Internet Explorer, it looks like it's cutting off part of the first page text. Displays fine in Firefox.

[hfx_chris]

I've been thinking more about the roof situation.
I had mentioned above that I really liked the design of the roof on the proposed Halifax CWG stadium. I like the way it arches over the stands, and looks to be partially supported by those massive towers. Something like that could work very well with your proposed design fenwick, as your stands partially wrap around the ends. The playing surface would be uncovered, but you mentioned at one point the possibility of a temporary covering (fabric maybe) over the playing field, which could easily be installed or removed. Perhaps it could be partially suspended from those large support towers on the CWG stadium design? I'm thinking something similar to the Montreal Olympic Stadium roof, only y'know.. not a huge disaster.
I should actually explain that a bit..when I say similar to the Olympic Stadium roof, I don't mean some half-baked retract-it-into-the-tower scheme, I just mean a fabric roof that is supported by cables from towers. Would still have to be manually installed or removed.