Winnipeg Jets

[Keng]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Exactly, some of my young delusional Winnipeg forum comrades feel that Winnipeg based corporations will be jumping over each other to buy a box if and when the NHL returns. They also fail to realize that of those said 32 + 3=35, The Canadian Wheat Board, MB Hydro, MLCC, MPIC, Manitoba Lotteries, Manitoba Pork Marketing and the majority of the others won't be buying any type of box unless it's made of cardboard.

I don't even know what you are talking about! You seem to think I was trying to prove something to you.

My little post only stipulated, I believed disposable income was a more accurate assessment of the average Winnipeg families ability to afford the NHL; for all posters, I wasn't singling anybody out. For some reason you think I was targeting you. Not the case, in fact I think you're point is valid and concerns me as well as to whether the NHL can work in Winnipeg. You're views on the CMHR are irrelevant.

I only drink Guinness.

[feepa]

Originally Posted by ILYR

There are now 10 teams with attendance (not necessarily paid) less than the MTS centre. They are:

(Taken from http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance)
Columbus 15004
Anaheim 14835
Florida 14489
Tampa Bay 14470
Carolina 14410
Colorado 14390
Atlanta 13511
Nashville 13409
NY Islanders 12485
Phoenix 9774

Notice - these teams are all the teams that are... failing. (Save for Colorado who had years and years of sell outs until recently...)
So the failing mark seems to be about 15000 seats. You'd need something bigger than the MTS Center.

Also - there is quite the big price difference between a MB Moose Luxury Box and an NHL Luxury Box... but I'm sure some of you NHL geniuses in here realized that already?!!?

The reason Edmonton has the Oilers is because we have people with big pockets here who were willing together and buy the team. This didn't happen in Winnipeg. Lack of money, or lack of support for the team, or no sound business plans... Nobody was willing to take a risk in piss-poor Winnipeg.

Winnipeg won't be getting an NHL team any time soon. Put down the crack pipes

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Well since you put it out there here are the rankings for household discretionary income: Calgary 1st, Edmonton 7th, Ottawa 24th and Winnipeg 79th. Hamilton ranks 51st. Winnipeg actually ranks worse in this category than household income, nice try!

Don't think I'm down on the NHL returning because I'm not, it's just that the reality of Winnipeg's demographics economically would make it difficult.

How about the highest debt ratio per capita. ALBERTA # 1 !!!

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Well since you put it out there here are the rankings for household discretionary income: Calgary 1st, Edmonton 7th, Ottawa 24th and Winnipeg 79th. Hamilton ranks 51st. Winnipeg actually ranks worse in this category than household income, nice try!

Don't think I'm down on the NHL returning because I'm not, it's just that the reality of Winnipeg's demographics economically would make it difficult.

2009 source to that information you posted ??

For the last time people, it will be actual companies buying the tickets, not individuals (not alone anyway) Soo, the point of disposible income is irrelevent for being able to afford season tickets..

rrskylar---I am starting to think you don't pay taxes... not that much anyway... People that support a good thing will look for ways to make it happen not ways to make it NOT happen like yourself.. So of course you must believe Chipman is a dumbass business person

I was looking and can not seem to find a positve post from you... You just seem happy adding to your post count...

[Pegger5]

Originally Posted by feepa

Notice - these teams are all the teams that are... failing. (Save for Colorado who had years and years of sell outs until recently...)
So the failing mark seems to be about 15000 seats. You'd need something bigger than the MTS Center.

Also - there is quite the big price difference between a MB Moose Luxury Box and an NHL Luxury Box... but I'm sure some of you NHL geniuses in here realized that already?!!?

The reason Edmonton has the Oilers is because we have people with big pockets here who were willing together and buy the team. This didn't happen in Winnipeg. Lack of money, or lack of support for the team, or no sound business plans... Nobody was willing to take a risk in piss-poor Winnipeg.

Winnipeg won't be getting an NHL team any time soon. Put down the crack pipes

You must forget what really happened or you are that young.
The NHL would not allow multiple (more than 1) Owners when a local Wpg group tried to buy the team. (not without a 100 million endowment fund).
Bettman finally changed his mind on that rule when Calgary and Edmonton were about to leave thus you are lucky to still have your team.. Edmonton had to have over 30 owners to survive. If Winnipeg had that chance they would still have a team. Also, read this link about arena size:
http://blogs.reuters.com/summits/200...always-better/
Research my friend, Research ! Oh and get out of this thread unless you have some real facts.

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by Pegger5

How about the highest debt ratio per capita. ALBERTA # 1 !!!

Really? I'd love to see that stat. I just find that hard to believe.

[hexrae]

While we're asking for references, let's ask rrskylar for his. I'm sure both parties would be more than willing to provide them.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by jimsabo21

Well, Moose boxes are between 45-70K ... don't know if this is any indication, but our company is #91 on a waiting list for a box at the MTS Centre as of February 2009 ...

So, they have 48 suites sold + 91 companies on a waiting list ... so that is 139 companies in winnipeg willing to pay at least 45K for a box. I think it's safe to assume that 48 of those would be willing to pay 150K for NHL

game set and match!.....this is the best piece of information yet.....wow 91 companies on a waiting list?!...in the teeth of the recession.....that pretty much shoots down rrskyler and everyone else who claims that winnipeg's companies are nothing but crown corps who would not be interested in buying suites....

NHL luxury suites do not cost $150k on average....in 2004 the average was $77k.....it certainly hasnt doubled in 5 years...

if there are 150 companies in winnipeg willing to pay an average of $60k for crap AHL hockey, you would have to think at least half of them would be willing to pay 30-40% more for NHL.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...UG95CULR91.DTL

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by feepa

So the failing mark seems to be about 15000 seats. You'd need something bigger than the MTS Center.

the nhl's bogus attendance numbers are meaningless....ticket revenue pays the bills....1/3 of the league draws 11 000 or less at the average ticket price....15000 seats at the average ticket price is in the top half of the league in revenues.....your argument holds no water.

Originally Posted by feepa

Also - there is quite the big price difference between a MB Moose Luxury Box and an NHL Luxury Box... but I'm sure some of you NHL geniuses in here realized that already?!!?

see above.....you are wrong.....there isnt a big price difference....what else you got?

[grumpy old man]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Wo, wo, wo! Because I think the level of public funding ( my tax dollars) is far too great for the CMHR and what it's return will be and that I question whether the NHL can work in Winnipeg, I'm some sort of grim reaper, give me a frickin break. Keep drinking the pink Kool-aid Ken! I guess when confronted with facts some people turn to name calling and stereotyping!

Originally Posted by rrskylar

My delusional Winnipeg brothers on the Skyscraper forum seem to think the NHL is coming back to Winnipeg soon, I keep trying to set them straight.

Grim reaper? Yeah. I think the shoe fits.

Perhaps you'll begin using facts to support your predictions of doom and gloom "while setting us straight". You must be a hoot at parties...

[1ajs]

what does a box cost at mts center as it is now?

[grumpy old man]

Here ya go 1ajs...

Originally Posted by jimsabo21

Well, Moose boxes are between 45-70K ... don't know if this is any indication, but our company is #91 on a waiting list for a box at the MTS Centre as of February 2009 ...

So, they have 48 suites sold + 91 companies on a waiting list ... so that is 139 companies in winnipeg willing to pay at least 45K for a box. I think it's safe to assume that 48 of those would be willing to pay 150K for NHL

Originally Posted by trueviking

game set and match!.....this is the best piece of information yet.....wow 91 companies on a waiting list?!...that pretty much shoots down rrskyler and everyone else who claims that winnipeg's companies are nothing but crown corps who would not be interested in buying suites....if there is that demand without the NHL.

NHL luxury suites do not cost $150k on average....its closer to $80k....this link is from 2005 showing it to be $77k....so at $70k, the prices at MTS are already not far off....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...UG95CULR91.DTL

[1ajs]

o didn't see that quote above txs gom

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Pegger5

2009 source to that information you posted ??

For the last time people, it will be actual companies buying the tickets, not individuals (not alone anyway) Soo, the point of disposible income is irrelevent for being able to afford season tickets..

rrskylar---I am starting to think you don't pay taxes... not that much anyway... People that support a good thing will look for ways to make it happen not ways to make it NOT happen like yourself.. So of course you must believe Chipman is a dumbass business person

I was looking and can not seem to find a positve post from you... You just seem happy adding to your post count...

Here is the source of my information: http://list.canadianbusiness.com/ran...=a&sp2=1&eh=ch, probably a magazine you're unaware of ( yes there are business magazines).

Judging by your inability to spell, I question whether you work!


I will save you the trouble of trying to find them in your little diatribe, here they are; soo, disposible, irrelevent, positve.

[trueviking]

Even if you consider a 5% increase in luxury suite costs per year since 2004, the average is maybe $90-100k...the Stanley cup champion Pittsburgh penguins sold their suites in a brand new building, still a year away from opening for an average of $110k. If companies in Winnipeg are paying $70k without the NHL and there is a hundred companies on a waiting list then te corporate support argument has to be closed. There can be no dispute.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Even if you consider a 5% increase in luxury suite costs per year since 2004, the average is maybe $90-100k...the Stanley cup champion Pittsburgh penguins sold their suites in a brand new building, still a year away from opening for an average of $110k. If companies in Winnipeg are paying $70k without the NHL and there is a hundred companies on a waiting list then te corporate support argument has to be closed. There can be no dispute.

That may very well be true, and unlike the other pro sports leagues, the NHL is primarily fan driven, meaning that the MTS Centre will have to be virtually sold out every game to make it work. I'm still not convinced that this is possible with NHL ticket prices in a market like Winnipeg.

[newflyer]

There is no doubt in my mind that the NHL is returning to Winnipeg in the coming years. It is not even a mattr of 'if' anymore.

The factors which drove the Jets south in 96 have disappeared.

Then: 64 cent dollar
Now: 95 cent dollar ( this alone generates nearly 50% more income for Canadian based teams) and many people in finance are expecting the Candian dollar to reach par in the coming months, even while the Bank of Canada is working hard to prevent this from happening.

Then: old Winnipeg arena - 0 luxury boxes
Now: MTS Centre - 48 luxury boxes + club seating

Then : NHL, no salary management system
Now : NHL, salary cap in place

Then: city economy was in decline relative to other major Canadian cities
Now: among the fastest growing city economies the last 4 years.

Then: stagnant population
Now: City and surounding area is now realizing steady growth. Latest numbers indicate the province grew by nearly 17000 people in 2009.

Then: a realitively poor ownership group had problems meeting the demands of the NHL.
Now: The richest person in Canada along with one of the wealthiest families in the city.. and a couple other wealthy individuals also ready to join the ownership group ready to finance the team.

Then: high business taxes, dampering the local economy
Now: moderate business taxes which are declining yearly. The result has seen increased investment in the local economy.

I don't think using NHL attendance stats is valid, as it has been shown time and time again that those numbers are inflated, especially among the bottom 3rd of the league. I previously posted an article which used Arizona court documents showing how the Coyotes greatly inflated there numbers to qualify for NHL support, including handing out freebies, greatly discounted tickets and buying up there own tickets to fudge the numbers for the NHL office. There is no doubt that those 9000 people watch the Thrashers everynight are magically turned into 14000 in the paper the next day. The Islanders, Panthers, Tampa Bay among others fall into the same category.

The bottom line is the NHL is not considered a first tier major league in the majority of the States and reality shows the even the CFL gets higher TV ratiings in many US markets. They relate to football, even if it has odd Canadian rules.

Winnipeg has proven itself the best hockey market without an NHL team time and time again. The NHL and its player association are looking to relocate those bottom feeder teams to real hockey markets. (ie: Winnipeg, Quebec City and Hartford... with an expansion team in Hamilton) With that said Winnipeg is the ONLY market ready to go at a moments notice. Everything is in place, except for the proper opportunity, but they are working behind the scenes with the NHL as we speak.

Its no longer "if" .... just a matter of when. I am just looking forward to seeing the new uniforms.

I also think if they took a poll for the new name, they would find the "JETS" would win hands down.

[1ajs]

isnt there a new york jets already?

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

isnt there a new york jets already?

Yup ... a football team.

[1ajs]

what i thought there was a hhl team