Halifax Stadium Discussion

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

It was an excellent article. Do we want to send the letter to the Herald?

Hello Empire. The letter was a great idea.

I assume you are in the Halifax area, so would you be willing to submit the letter to the Herald?

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Hello Empire. The letter was a great idea.

I assume you are in the Halifax area, so would you be willing to submit the letter to the Herald?

I will send it in.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

I will send it in.

What are the chances of them printing it? We can only hope that they will.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I don't think that it needs its own parking since there is parking on the Forum lands and other surrounding areas.

I don't think the Forum would appreciate people tying up their parking lots...just as I'm sure Superstore wouldn't either.

Originally Posted by fenwick16

If I had my way, I would want it to be where the skate-park currently is.

No argument, it would be a great location...but it would never happen. With the amount of bullshit raised over temporary bleachers for a weekend, imagine the fuss over a stadium.

Originally Posted by fenwick16

but how does a sunken stadium accommodate vehicles?

Ever hear of a ramp?

Originally Posted by isaidso

Toronto doesn't experience bottlenecks at Skydome and Maple Leaf Gardens because it has a subway system capable of handling tens of thousands of people an hour. Not only does Halifax not have this capability, Halifax is a peninsula while downtown Toronto is not. The bottlenecks are at at entry points to Halifax peninsula.

The Metro Centre has a seating capacity of what.. 10-11k depending on the event?
When you leave a sold out game at the MC, where do you spend most of your time in your car? If you're like me, it's sitting there waiting in the Scotia Square parkade. Once you get out of there, what's the traffic like on the rest of the drive home? I live in Dartmouth, and my drive home is pretty quick. Very little traffic on the road. I spend more time idling in the parkade than I do driving back to my house. So where is the bottleneck? Not getting off the peninsula. Remember, it's highly unlikely games are going to be getting out at 4pm on a workday. The bottleneck is usually getting out of the parking lot/parkade, and the immediate streets. Once you're past that, everyone filters out in their own directions and the drive is relatively painless.
Somebody talked about 30,000 people all hitting the roads at once. I've never seen a parking lot or parkade where 20,000 cars can all exit it at the exact same time.

Originally Posted by isaidso

London and Paris have spoiled me when it comes to public transportation, so I don't think I'm going to see eye to eye with many Haligonians regarding the efficiency, frequency, or convenience of Halifax transit. (A good transit system should get you from Clayton Park to Scotia Square in about 7 or 8 minutes.) I don't even think Toronto's is very good. That's another discussion though.

I don't even think I could do that by car in 7-8 minutes. What you're basically saying, is unless a city has a subway system that travels to every corner, it's not a good transit system?

[hfx_chris]

One thing I do want to say is this. If you're going to send in a letter, don't sign it Skyscraper Page unless you check with the actual owners of this website first, and make sure your words represent their opinions.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

I don't think the Forum would appreciate people tying up their parking lots...just as I'm sure Superstore wouldn't either.

If both the stadium and forum are city owned then it shouldn't be a problem. Then they just have to schedule events the best that they can to avoid coinciding events. Also, most large events are now at the Metro Centre so the Forum parking is likely underutilized. With regards to the Superstore, if they have excess capacity and can charge 1000 cars $10 each then they might be happy with the extra $10,000 per event.

No argument, it would be a great location...but it would never happen. With the amount of bullshit raised over temporary bleachers for a weekend, imagine the fuss over a stadium.

What about the Wanderers Grounds?

Ever hear of a ramp?

That sounds good.

Somebody talked about 30,000 people all hitting the roads at once. I've never seen a parking lot or parkade where 20,000 cars can all exit it at the exact same time.

Not all people at an event will have separate cars. If there is a crowd of 30,000 then there might only be 5,000 - 10,000 cars (not many people go to sporting events alone, many go as families).

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

One thing I do want to say is this. If you're going to send in a letter, don't sign it Skyscraper Page unless you check with the actual owners of this website first, and make sure your words represent their opinions.

This is a good point. Maybe "John Empire" (except use your real name) and friends at Skyscraperpage. Then it is obvious that it isn't being endorsed by skyscraperpage. It might actually be easier to have it printed if it has a real name attached to it.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

So where is the bottleneck?

The bottleneck is at the bridges and at the other end (Armdale Rotary, Kempt, and Bayers Road) every weekday in the morning and again when people leave work. It's a disaster. You're using the Metro Centre as a good example? That's only 6,000 to 7,000 people on average, often even less.

With a stadium you're talking about 30,000 people or a number just a little less than those that do the morning commute to work on to the peninsula.

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

I don't even think I could do that by car in 7-8 minutes. What you're basically saying, is unless a city has a subway system that travels to every corner, it's not a good transit system?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that the geography of Halifax dictates that surface transit will never be to be a satisfactory public transit solution for Halifax. It will always result in an excruciatingly long commute by car, or a ridiculously long one by bus.

No subway is on the horizon for this city, so commuting in Halifax will remain the nightmare it has long been. That's just the sad truth. That trip should take 7-8 minutes. Haligonians are just used to the way things are.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This is a good point. Maybe "John Empire" (except use your real name) and friends at Skyscraperpage. Then it is obvious that it isn't being endorsed by skyscraperpage. It might actually be easier to have it printed if it has a real name attached to it.

I sent it in to the Herald, signed Advocates for an HRM Stadium The letter is rather lengthy to be printed but they may edit it and print a smaller version.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by isaidso

The bottleneck is at the bridges and at the other end (Armdale Rotary, Kempt, and Bayers Road) every weekday in the morning and again when people leave work. It's a disaster. You're using the Metro Centre as a good example? That's only 6,000 to 7,000 people on average, often even less.

With a stadium you're talking about 30,000 people or a number just a little less than those that do the morning commute to work on to the peninsula.

Okay, 30,000 people. And how many cars do you think that's going to be? 30,000? Unlike people working downtown, most people going to a sports event aren't driving one per car, plus a good chunk will take advantage of public transit. So let's use fenwick's idea of 5-10,000 cars. You think all 5-10k cars are going to be on the street at once? Again, I would like to see what kind of parking lot can allow all 5-10k cars to leave at once.
I used the Metro Centre as an example because, as far as I know, right now it's the largest venue for sports in Halifax. It is, right? I mean, you're not hiding a stadium in your backyard that you're not telling us about, are you?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

I sent it in to the Herald, signed Advocates for an HRM Stadium The letter is rather lengthy to be printed but they may edit it and print a smaller version.

Sounds good! If it gets printed please let us know.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

What about the Wanderers Grounds?

Still the Common

[fenwick16]

At this point it seems like the only real potential site on the peninsula for a stadium is the DND site north of the forum. The Wanderers Grounds seem to have a heritage building on it ( http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/090623ca1114.pdf ).

Access to the North peninsula area should be quite good since it has access by both bridges and highway 102. I was also surprised to see all the parking in this area. There are quite a few car dealerships also. Usually car dealerships are quite well maintained, so this can't be that bad of an area.

[someone123]

That "heritage building" is a joke. It's a shack from the 40s and it looks awful.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

I posted this in the CFL Maritimes thread.

Monctons Track & Field stadiums bleachers are really far away from the field in order to accommodate the track.

I would make the stands a steeper incline and eliminate the track for a Halifax stadium. Also have a roof over the stands similar to the Saputo stadium in Montreal except have the roof extend right to the field sidelines (this type of roof construction is not very expensive). If the incline of the stands for Saputo were steeper then the roof would likely be sufficient to cover all the seats in that one stand section.

(source photobucket, http://ai.stanford.edu/~csewell/pictures/na/index.html )

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

That "heritage building" is a joke. It's a shack from the 40s and it looks awful.

Is there any chance of them tearing it down? This would be a great location for a stadium. The Wanderers Grounds was used as a rugby field for many years based on what I read. This hardly even seems like part of the Commons.

[someone123]

It is a part of the Commons. I would guess that it's kind of small for a stadium, but I don't see why that building needs to be preserved. Presumably it was up for registered heritage status simply because it's city-owned and nobody currently cares about that site; the attitude seems to be that they should try to get as much as they can, which is ridiculous when real heritage buildings are threatened.

The Commons originally included a very large chunk of peninsular Halifax, but those lands were granted in the 1700s when they were semi-rural and were used for livestock, etc. The arguments that all that land today should be devoted to public use are spurious; there's plenty, maybe too much vague and empty yet highly useful land in the middle of the peninsula.

[BravoZulu]

I have been following this thread for a while and would love to see a stadium built in Halifax. I think it is the most realistic expectation Halifax has of getting pro sports and wouldbe huge to give truly a coast to coast league.

I think that the stadium has to be on the peninsula, and reasonable close to downtown ie walking distance.

This would mitigate the traffic issues as many would arrive early to go to local pubs and restaurants, and many would sick around after the game for a bite to eat or some refreshments. Nothing would be worse in my opinion than walking out of a stadium only to be in the middle of nowhere.

I think the best case scenario is to use the current field at SMU as a starting point, obviously the stadium there needs replacement, and cost sharing with the university would be a good way to get a portion of the funds. I think it is reasonable to put the stadium there, it may require the removal of the gym building but perhaps that could be redevelopped either elsewhere or incorporated with the stadium somehow.

My other though with regards to location is across the road from pier 21, there re currently some buildings there, but it looks like there might be enough space if they were removed.
I thinks that is all (sorry for the book maybe I should have been posting instead of saving it all up)

[BravoZulu]

The more I look at the pier 21 space the less I think a stadium will fit

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

It is a part of the Commons. I would guess that it's kind of small for a stadium, but I don't see why that building needs to be preserved. Presumably it was up for registered heritage status simply because it's city-owned and nobody currently cares about that site; the attitude seems to be that they should try to get as much as they can, which is ridiculous when real heritage buildings are threatened.

The Commons originally included a very large chunk of peninsular Halifax, but those lands were granted in the 1700s when they were semi-rural and were used for livestock, etc. The arguments that all that land today should be devoted to public use are spurious; there's plenty, maybe too much vague and empty yet highly useful land in the middle of the peninsula.

This would be a great location, but there also appears to be a modern 3 story building that might be part of the Hospital (?) and a couple other fairly nice buildings and green houses. So even I would have a difficult time to justify tearing these buildings down for a stadium. The stadium could probably fit without tearing down the modern 3 story building but most of the other buildings would have to go. Halifax is lucky to have so many nice green spaces within the city.



(source: Bing Maps)