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  #10441  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2009, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.x View Post

Zweisystem
This character calls CKNW all the time too, I can't remember his name but he's one of the "regulars" who calls Bill Good.
     
     
  #10442  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2009, 11:08 PM
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This character calls CKNW all the time too, I can't remember his name but he's one of the "regulars" who calls Bill Good.
Yeah, a touch obsessed methinks. I get the feeling that if you actually met him in person and were having a totally non-transit related discussion, he'd always steer it back to his obsession...

His frequent use of nazi comparisons is, frankly, a little alarming. Thankfully, no one really pays any attention to him, anyway.
     
     
  #10443  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2009, 5:02 AM
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Originally Posted by The Province

Ridership 'extraordinary'

Transportation expert Dr. Larry Frank of the University of B.C. believes the benefits of the Canada Line outweigh the cost to build and keep operating the $2-billion link between downtown Vancouver and Richmond.

Frank, who holds the Bombardier Chair in Sustainable Transportation in the School of Community and Regional Planning, called the ridership "extraordinary."

"Trains are full almost at the beginning," he said.

The ongoing cost to run the Canada Line doesn't take into account personal savings or the benefits to health and the environment from things such as reduced greenhouse gases, he said.

"We have a whole host of things that need to be integrated into that cost-benefit analysis."

Frank's research in Atlanta in 2004 showed that time spent in automobiles was linked to obesity while use of transit was linked to physical activity.

He found that each hour spent in a car increased the chance of obesity by six per cent. Every kilometre walked in a day -- such as a trip to and from a transit stop -- reduced the likelihood of obesity by five per cent.
http://www.theprovince.com/health/Ridership+extraordinary/2213423/story.html
     
     
  #10444  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2009, 9:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.x View Post

Zweisystem

November 12, 2009 - 11:17 AM
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83,000 passengers, surely means 83,000 trips made by about 41,500 people, if it were not then the RAV Canada Line instantly doubled the number of people using the previous bus services! As TransLink hasn't crowed about that, then the 83,000 passenger trips roughly work out to the number of passengers who previously used the bus. In essence, TransLink spent close to $3 billion to give current bus riders a more inconvenient and longer trip!

But how many RAV customers are using the U-Pass, that lovely $25 a month student pass that is bankrupting TransLink. Let's see if a student in Vancouver takes a bus to RAV or RAV then a bus to school, The Canada Line's portion of that fare is $12.50 a month - no wonder TransLink is bankrupt!

railforthevalley.wordpress.com/.../the-apportioned-fare-what-is-it-will-translink-do-it




http://www.theprovince.com/business/Cana...pite+strong+ridership/2213875/story.html




If I didn't know who that guy was, from his argument I would say he is an anti-transit, SUV driving, industrialist. His arguments work much better if he was trying to disband translink and put an end to transit, not install rail in the valley. Argue in favor of buses in the city but wanting rail through the ALR? Is there any sense there at all.


ON topic, 2025 is only 16 years away. That's a pretty good return on amortization for a public service. People seem to forget that. Losing $14 million a year on something that is a service, that also gives back to government in increased income and property taxes (that then go to providing the service) is a good investment for the number of people it moves. What's next, are we going to argue against Health care because the hospitals aren't making any money and we are spending billions a year on sick people?

What would the cost have been for running ALL the buses through Vancouver that this replaces (B line, Richmond buses, suburban lines)? Translink must have been "losing" more that $14 million a year in providing all those services (extra buses, drivers, fuel, maintenance, wear and tear on buses).
     
     
  #10445  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2009, 9:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Zassk View Post
Canada Line ridership is certainly a rare success not even seen in many new subway lines completed in recent years in high-density Asian cities. For instance, Hongkong and Taiwan both have underused lines that may not need to use 50% of ultimate capacity for this generation.
     
     
  #10446  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2009, 2:00 PM
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How crowded was it at that moment? Was it so crowded that the lineups back up towards the top of the stairs, or was it similar to the ones usually seen for E/M-Lines?
Basically half the platform was full but no one was on the stairs at OC. One problem I had was when the train pulled in. I wasn't sure who was getting on. So I kind of pushed my way through. Didn't want to get stuck in the back of the crowd when the train I want to get onto is sitting right there.
     
     
  #10447  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2009, 7:01 PM
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LRT lines in the states that cost $2 billion regularly draw 20 000 riders a day. Per dollar, the Canada Line is probably the most successful rapid transit line in North America in years. But of course, the news is that the line is losing money.

*Newsflash*
Highway 1 maintenance and upkeep means the highway loses millions of dollars a year."

"Yeah, but we pay enough gas taxes to cover that."
"Yeah, but we need the highway to fuel the economy."
"Yeah, but trucks need to move around at high speeds."

Somehow, this is not newsworthy though, as, well, you know, the economy.

Criticizing an obviously-successful rapid transit airport-linking line for losing money uses about the same logic as saying that widening a highway will mean lower tailpipe emissions because cars will be flowing more freely. I know it won't sell newspapers, but it's high time that journalists see public transit as an essential service along the lines of power, water, sewer....and not something that's supposed to make money on fares.
     
     
  #10448  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2009, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kylemacmac View Post
LRT lines in the states that cost $2 billion regularly draw 20 000 riders a day. Per dollar, the Canada Line is probably the most successful rapid transit line in North America in years. But of course, the news is that the line is losing money.

*Newsflash*
Highway 1 maintenance and upkeep means the highway loses millions of dollars a year."

"Yeah, but we pay enough gas taxes to cover that."
"Yeah, but we need the highway to fuel the economy."
"Yeah, but trucks need to move around at high speeds."

Somehow, this is not newsworthy though, as, well, you know, the economy.

Criticizing an obviously-successful rapid transit airport-linking line for losing money uses about the same logic as saying that widening a highway will mean lower tailpipe emissions because cars will be flowing more freely. I know it won't sell newspapers, but it's high time that journalists see public transit as an essential service along the lines of power, water, sewer....and not something that's supposed to make money on fares.
Yeah, and like when are those damn hospitals going to make a buck? That investment is taking forever to pay off.
     
     
  #10449  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2009, 9:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kylemacmac View Post
I know it won't sell newspapers, but it's high time that journalists see public transit as an essential service along the lines of power, water, sewer....and not something that's supposed to make money on fares.
Hear, hear! Well said.
     
     
  #10450  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2009, 1:26 AM
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Ok first off people like to 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 just for the sake of bitching. That is why you hear the dim wits who really have no clue about what they are talking about.

One thing that I find funny is they make it sound like translink will be loose about $14 million are year until 2025 and then suddenly in 2026 they will be breaking even or making a profit. What do they expect a sudden increase is users in that year. Hmm maybe in a few years there will a another baby boom that I'm aware of.

To me it is more likely that the amount that the system will be in the negative will decrease over time. Now it might break even in 2025 who knows. But if that is the case I don't think it will be loosing $14 mill in 2024.
     
     
  #10451  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2009, 3:21 AM
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Even if we did pay because of the contract $21 million every year until 2025, that is still less than half of the $700+ million that the private sector contributed.

Does that mean that if it was 100% publicly funded we would actually be turning profit for the government before that date? Maybe. But we would have had to add $700 million more in debt to the books somewhere, debt that might have keep us from building Evergreen line or even considering the UBC Line.
     
     
  #10452  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2009, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
Even if we did pay because of the contract $21 million every year until 2025, that is still less than half of the $700+ million that the private sector contributed.

Does that mean that if it was 100% publicly funded we would actually be turning profit for the government before that date? Maybe. But we would have had to add $700 million more in debt to the books somewhere, debt that might have keep us from building Evergreen line or even considering the UBC Line.
I think these annual costs are in addition to the initial investment of 100's of millions for the various contributing agencies.
     
     
  #10453  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2009, 1:16 AM
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I think these annual costs are in addition to the initial investment of 100's of millions for the various contributing agencies.
Yes, but the private sector of the P3 invested over $700 million in the project. So instead we are spending at most $21 million a year for 16 years which is $336 million, instead of paying off a debt of $720 million that the private contractors paid. That is their money they put up. If we had to pay that off over 16 years as debt (instead of an investment by a third party) we would be paying $45 million a year.
     
     
  #10454  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2009, 1:28 AM
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Probably a lot more depending on interest rates.
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  #10455  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2009, 4:06 AM
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I used it today from broadway to waterfront - first time since august - was really busy - nothing overcrowded - surprised just how busy olympic village station was - 80% of the people got off at vancouver centre

anyway finally saw advertising in the stations and trains in full wrap well as full as can be - they look good - the taiwan one is very colourful - looks good
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  #10456  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2009, 6:41 AM
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I'd be interested in seeing the Taiwan-wrapped train if anyone has a picture of it.
     
     
  #10457  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2009, 6:57 AM
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Originally Posted by giallo View Post
I'd be interested in seeing the Taiwan-wrapped train if anyone has a picture of it.
china airlines flight attendant with some taiwanese landscape, yelling taiwan taiwan on the typographic side of things, very typical taiwanese style ad, feels like selling areca nuts....

i wonder if they will ever use shemales for thailand...
     
     
  #10458  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2009, 5:34 AM
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LA Metro's GOLD Line has finally been opened. I just want to point out the amount/level/quality of the art installed at the stations. It's unfortunate that our Canada Line didn't have such permanent pieces installed, but at least this can still be easily done. Many complain about the blandness of our stations (not bland soon... considering the number of advertisements being installed now... CC Stn has way too many), but I think art, slightly below this level, will differentiate each stations from each other quite well.

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With today's (Nov. 15) East LA extension inauguration, this is what LA's METRO system looks like. Except the "Expo" Aqua Line which is under construction.



Los Angeles Times coverage...................

CRITIC'S NOTEBOOK

An extension of more than the Gold Line
Sunday's opening of eight new Metro stations on a path from downtown to East L.A. lays down tracks toward an exciting future.




The Gold Line extension's opening gives the feeling that things are looking up for mass transit in L.A. Here's a look back up toward the street from the underground track at one of the two new subterranean stops. (Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)







It would be tough to overstate the level of cynicism that exists in certain corners of the Los Angeles establishment about the future of mass transit in Southern California. For many power brokers and longtime observers of the political scene, disparaging the chances of the region ever putting together a comprehensive transit system is some combination of rhetorical tic and parlor game.

In fact, the progress we've already made on a subway and light-rail network -- full of delays and misjudgments as it has been -- is remaking the physical and psychological terrain of Los Angeles in some profound ways. As more neighborhoods and landmarks are brought into transit's orbit, their relationship to the rest of the city and region shifts, giving us a powerful means of seeing the built environment with fresh eyes.

From that point of view, the opening on Sunday of the eight new Metropolitan Transportation Authority stations that make up the Gold Line extension -- six above ground and two below, reaching south and then east from Union Station into Little Tokyo, Boyle Heights and East Los Angeles -- is among the most significant civic milestones the city has reached in several years.

Design effects

The design of the new stops, overseen by architect Frank Villalobos and the firm AECOM, is in general more refined than the first stretch of the Gold Line, which opened in 2003 and in some stations delivers commuters directly into a narrow corridor squeezed between howling lanes of the 210 Freeway. But none is world-beating or likely to become a landmark in its own right.

A few show the pitfalls of earnestness, not to mention the deadening effect of endless design-review meetings at the bureaucratic and neighborhood level. (Does every station need to be a consensus-tested expression of community pride? I confess I'm not convinced.)

Among the above-ground stops in particular, less is definitely more: The stations that work best tend to be the ones that promote a fluid, easy connection between sidewalk and platform.

The real significance of the stations' debut on Sunday flows, instead, from the fact that with every substantial extension of the rail and subway network -- and this is a major one, with a price tag of $898 million, a large chunk of it to pay for 1.8 miles of underground tunneling -- another piece of the future Los Angeles comes startlingly into focus. More transit means more pedestrians, more people who pay attention to the shape and design of the city up close. That, in turn, means a growing constituency for shared space in Los Angeles and new interest in our long-neglected streetscapes and public sphere.

To put it another way: Transit and the life of the street are inextricably intertwined, and a boost to one is almost always a boost to the other.

At the same time, as trains trace new paths across the city, some of the divisions that for generations have made Los Angeles a balkanized collection of neighborhoods may begin to wobble or fall away.

That's not to say that some homogenization of L.A.'s various parts is on its way or should be our goal. Quite the opposite: New transit lines tend to throw the vibrant differences among neighborhoods into high relief.

Connecting a city

And yet they also promote a new sense of connectivity and fluidity in how we put the city and region together in our minds. In this case, by extending the Gold Line a mere six miles, Metro has woven new urban connections among downtown, Little Tokyo, the banks of the L.A. River, Boyle Heights and East Los Angeles.

The arts district has a different, arguably closer relationship with Little Tokyo. Commuters will better understand, simply by seeing this landscape out the train window, how improvements to Boyle Heights relate to plans to remake the banks of the river.

A similar batch of interrelationships will be forged each time Metro expands further: as the Expo Line moves south and west into Culver City and then Santa Monica, and as the Gold Line's Foothill Extension stretches east through the San Gabriel Valley. The fact that the underground section of the Gold Line was built without incident or cost overruns may help tamp down lingering doubts about the logistics of building the Subway to the Sea extension west along Wilshire Boulevard.

After Villalobos and AECOM handled the preliminary architecture of the new stations, each one was then handed off for final design to a separate architect-artist team. The standout designs are the two at the eastern end of the extension.

The Atlantic Station, by AECOM architects Todd Osborne and Russell McCarley and the artist group Adobe L.A., pairs a series of sail-like canopies with colored-cement benches and a lacquered, floridly painted robot sculpture at its western entrance.

The East L.A. Civic Center station, by Villalobos with artist Clement Hanami, suggests a row of blooming poppies and adds a burst of bright color to its stretch of 3rd Street.

Each of the two underground stations, meanwhile -- the cerulean-blue Soto Station by architect Aziz Kohan and artist Nobuho Nagasawa, and Mariachi Plaza Station by architect William Villalobos and artist Alejandro de la Loza -- is a tri-level design that adds a sizable new public plaza at street level. The visible coordination between art, architecture and signage at the stations -- and even the perforated-metal bicycle lockers built at or near a number of the them -- is a direct result of Metro's decision several years ago to create its own design studio, which now has a staff of more than 20.

Economic force

The Gold Line extension has also produced a number of important urban ripple effects. Several transit-oriented commercial and residential developments, including some planned for land owned by Metro immediately adjacent to the new stations, remain stalled by the poor economy; but other important changes to the route served by the train have already been completed or are underway, including the repaving of 3rd Street, the widening of the First Street Bridge and the construction of a pair of public high schools.

The extension has also managed to reawaken the potential of the Museum of Contemporary Art's Geffen Contemporary building. Still among the most underrated art-world designs of Frank Gehry's career, the warehouse building has been closed for 10 months as the museum struggled with financial woes.

But now, as the Geffen reopens in time to hold one segment of a major new exhibition of MoCA's permanent collection, it does so with a new Metro stop directly across Alameda Street -- and to find itself as central, if not more so, to the cultural and geographical makeup of Los Angeles than the main MoCA building on Grand Avenue.

Sightseeing tour

In the broadest sense, particularly because most of the new route is above ground, the Gold Line extension provides a number of ways to consider anew the city's architecture.

Along with the Geffen and City Hall, the buildings visible from the train include Rafael Moneo's Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels; Coop Himmelblau's Central High School No. 9; Gilbert Stanley Underwood's twin-domed Terminal Annex Post Office; Dodger Stadium; Thom Mayne and Morphosis' Caltrans District 7 Headquarters; and along First and Third streets a horizontal panorama of vernacular architecture including pink-stucco bungalows, car-detailing shops, taco stands and signs for Jewish, Serbian, Catholic and Chinese cemeteries.

Perhaps the most dramatic architectural views are the changing vistas of the downtown skyline that come into view as you move west on the new route from Boyle Heights and across the river and then as the train navigates a tight S-curve over the Hollywood Freeway and its dense field of red brake lights.

Many of those same views have long been available by car or bus or on foot, of course. But there is something more memorable -- more liberating, even -- about seeing them from a train running along dedicated tracks, floating free of capricious traffic.

christopher.hawthorne@

latimes.com

Copyright © 2009, The Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/arts/la-et-goldline14-2009nov14,0,4084107.story

Soto Station

( Al Seib / Los Angeles Times )
Artwork at the street entrance to the underground track at this Metro Gold Line stop has a bird motif.

Mariachi Plaza Station

(Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)
The colorful street-level entrance pops out in Boyle Heights.

(Lawrence K. Ho / Los Angeles Times)
The famed Mariachi Plaza cupola, and the Gold Line station.

(Lawrence K. Ho / Los Angeles Times)
Mariachi Plaza.

(Lawrence K. Ho / Los Angeles Times)
Inside the Mariachi Plaza cupola.

Mariachi Plaza Station

(Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)

Little Tokyo/Arts District Station

(Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)
This is the first stop on the extension from Union Station.

East L.A. Civic Center Station

(Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)
The art here represents the state's official flower, the California poppy.

Atlantic Station

(Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)
Meet the eastern terminus of the six-mile Gold Line extension.

Operator

(Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)
George Raya is at the controls of a Metro Gold Line train. Nearly one-third of the six-mile extension (1.8 miles, to be exact) runs underground.

Downtonw approach


(Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)
George Raya guides a Metro Gold Line train back west on the Gold Line extension.
     
     
  #10459  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2009, 6:55 AM
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So, umm, with the Canada Line experiencing some flooding last week, what are the chances we see interruptions due to more major flooding with 200mm of rain on the way?
     
     
  #10460  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2009, 7:04 AM
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So, umm, with the Canada Line experiencing some flooding last week, what are the chances we see interruptions due to more major flooding with 200mm of rain on the way?
How is water even getting into the tunnel?
     
     
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