Rapid Transit - Page 62

SteelTown · #**1221** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 2:25 PM**

Now that we've won the 2015 Pan Am Games what's your prediction for the B-Line?

I'm sure we'll get LRT for the B-Line but I'm wondering if we've have enough time to complete the line by 2015. I think we may end up having LRT from McMaster to downtown by 2015. Then finish the rest of the line by 2018.

For the A-Line I think the province might also fund the A-Line from the waterfront to the downtown by 2015. The A-Line will connect the stadium, velodrome and GO/VIA station to the downtown. Though I think it'll be BRT and not LRT for the A-Line.

11thIndian · #**1222** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 3:33 PM**

I'd very much like to see the A-line get finished. For Hamilton commuters, the B-Line is more important, but the A-Line will make it easy for visitors to get from the stadium to downtown, and up to the mountain brow, surely a view a lot of visitors will find really interesting. It's too bad that there isn't anything there except for Sam Lawrence Park once they get up there.

That's not to say SL park ain't great, it is; and I walk my dog there every morning. It just disappoints me that there isn't ANYTHING that takes advantage of that view. I'm sure it would have some people up in arms, but a nice restaurant could make that park a destination; and it wouldn't have to destroy the park with proper design. Its such a shame that we have this great geographical feature but we've taken no advantage of it.

urban_planner · #**1223** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 4:26 PM**

there are more areas the take in great views of the city. lots of spots along from Upper Wentworth over to just before Upper Gage

Also there are a few spots on the west mountian. There is a smally window at Cliff View Park, Maybe they could so some tree removal there to open it up even more.

Anyway just a thought.

11thIndian · #**1224** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 6:09 PM**

I know we have lots of "lookouts", and I certainly wouldn't want to commercialize every inch of the mountain-brow. Green space is one of our key attractions. I was so excited to see the Waterfront Trust's plans for the bottom of James Street [which hopefully will get a kick in the pants with the Pan Am games]- you're always going to have that group of people who go just to walk, but the idea of shops and restaurants bringing more people down to the waterfront- that gets other people down there who normally wouldn't. You've got these great escarpment views, how wonderful would it be to sit down and eat a meal there? Have a drink? Other cities with similar geography [Hong Kong] have maximized it to their advantage, but not us!

Gurnett71 · #**1225** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urban_planner

there are more areas the take in great views of the city. lots of spots along from Upper Wentworth over to just before Upper Gage

Also there are a few spots on the west mountian. There is a smally window at Cliff View Park, Maybe they could so some tree removal there to open it up even more.

Anyway just a thought.

How about the Continuing Care building at Chedoke Hospital? HHS is constantly trying to sell off the Chedoke lands and this building could be renovated into a nice Keg like restaurant overlooking the city. What views!(from the upper floors at least!)

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=...16.31,,0,-8.23

Oops, guess this land and building have already been purchased and a proposal is out there:

http://chedokebrow.ca/another-proposal-from-deanlee/

drpgq · #**1226** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 7:39 PM**

I don't know why the city has never tried to get a little Williams at Sam Lawrence like the one at the waterfront. It wouldn't have to be very big either, but it would be nice to have something.

Jon Dalton · #**1227** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Now that we've won the 2015 Pan Am Games what's your prediction for the B-Line?

I'm sure we'll get LRT for the B-Line but I'm wondering if we've have enough time to complete the line by 2015. I think we may end up having LRT from McMaster to downtown by 2015. Then finish the rest of the line by 2018.

For the A-Line I think the province might also fund the A-Line from the waterfront to the downtown by 2015. The A-Line will connect the stadium, velodrome and GO/VIA station to the downtown. Though I think it'll be BRT and not LRT for the A-Line.

BRT would be SUCH A FAIL especially as a fast track measure to service the stadium by 2015. I was wondering if they might try to push half of the A-line just from downtown to the waterfront, then there would be a seamless LRT connection between both pan-am venues and downtown. They could delay part of the B-line, maybe just run from McMaster to Ottawa St. at first, to get the waterfront segment built faster. I'm sure the bulk of the cost for A-line was for the escarpment tunnel and running all the way to the airport.

realcity · #**1228** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 8:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drpgq

I don't know why the city has never tried to get a little Williams at Sam Lawrence like the one at the waterfront. It wouldn't have to be very big either, but it would be nice to have something.

I don't know why the City just doesn't bring Google's head office to downtown either?

Besides I think that's a park and not zoned for any development. There once was a very busy Dairy Queen not far from Sam Lawrence. ANd for anyone who grew up on the mtn it was a summer family ritual to go get ice creams then eat it at Sam Lawrence.

highwater · #**1229** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 8:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by realcity

Besides I think that's a park and not zoned for any development.

They put a restaurant in Spencer Smith in Burlington, I see no reason (other than lack of vision) why they couldn't do the same here.

drpgq · #**1230** Posted **Nov 9, 2009, 10:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by realcity

I don't know why the City just doesn't bring Google's head office to downtown either?

I hardly think bringing Google's head office to downtown is in the same league as allowing a coffee shop at Sam Lawrence. Now I understand why people's attitudes in this town prevent anything from getting done.

SteelTown · #**1231** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 12:07 PM**

The Rapid Transit Squeeze

November 10, 2009
Emma Reilly
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/669682

Rapid transit and traffic are competing for limited space on city streets. The city is beginning to map out how rapid transit will operate in Hamilton, revealing dramatic impacts on the way traffic moves along the entire east-west corridor.

Potential changes include the creation of a pedestrian mall in the downtown core and conversion of King Street to two-way traffic with restrictions on left turns from Eastgate to McMaster.

According to a new report, Hamilton will see two rapid transit (RT) lines running along the centre of King Street -- one eastbound, one westbound. These plans are in place whether the city receives light rail or buses. That decision is expected from transportation authority Metrolinx in January.

The heaviest impact will be downtown, where the proposal sees the International Village area of King Street closed to traffic. Vehicles will be routed away from King Street at Wellington Street to either Main, Cannon or Wilson streets, then merge back onto King in a proposed "transition zone" between Mary and John streets.

Drivers could lose on-street parking and loading zones from Eastgate Square to McMaster University, and face restrictions on left turns along the entire route.

Cars won't be allowed to cross the centre lanes in order to maintain the speed of RT and to ensure the safety of motorists.

That means residents and owners and employees of businesses along King Street will only be able to make right turns in and out of their driveways. Left turns and U-turns will only be permitted at traffic lights.

The city chose median RT lines because they ultimately offer traffic more freedom than curbside RT, said Jill Stephen, director of strategic and environmental planning. Since there would be the same restrictions on cars crossing the RT tracks or lanes, curbside RT would mean side streets and driveways would have to be dead-ended.

Stephen says she's aware city residents will need time to adjust to the proposed plan.

"Change can be difficult, but there are lots of good reasons for this change," she said.

News of the traffic restrictions came as a surprise to Councillor Chad Collins. He first heard of the plan at an information update for council members in late October.

Since then, he says, he's been discussing the plans with businesses in his ward and reactions haven't been positive. Few businesses he spoke to were even aware of the direction of the RT plans.

"I'd like to see a system that the community can support," he said. "I'd hate to see a design that turns people off of LRT to the point that they don't want it."

Manny Rebelo, the general manager and soon-to-be owner of Swiss Chalet on Queenston Road, says he's worried about how the traffic restrictions will affect his business.

"It could slow down our service, certainly to delivery guests, and of course our patrons will suffer as well because it will be very inconvenient for them."

Denninger's spokesperson Norm Legault said he's very concerned about plans to close King Street -- the eatery and food store is in the middle of the proposed pedestrian zone.

"I would say this worries us," he said after hearing of the plans for the first time yesterday.

"I don't think that would be in the best business interest for this location."

Zaz · #**1232** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 1:59 PM**

This is an extremely unfortunate article, with a sole aim to stir controversy. All it talks about is how drastic the changes will be, and how the residents should be concerned. Not a single mention of potentially transforming benefits the RT will bring.

holymoly · #**1233** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 2:06 PM**

Agreed. It's a disgustingly one-sided article.

BrianE · #**1234** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 2:29 PM**

It really speaks to the North American mentality.

"Nobody but poor people ride the bus, therefore if a transit line is routed outside my business I will lose customers and money."

In any other Country in the world (Except most of the U.S.) a new transit line opening in front of a busness would be cause for celebration and worries of how they're going to deal with an influx of new customers.

Bizare.

adam · #**1235** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 2:34 PM**

Actually the North American mentality is changing. Look at the steady decline in automobile sales in the past 10 years, increased bicycle culture in the past couple years, urban revivals continent-wide. However, the article is typical of the Spectator, always behind the times, never saying anything that wasn't said 10-20 years ago. This is a fine example the mentality of the average Spectator reader, but not necessarily the average mentality of people who live in the city. I might hesitate to jump to these conclusions if Spectator readership wasn't doing so poorly.

11thIndian · #**1236** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 4:07 PM**

It's hard to believe that Deningers would suffer if it was along a pedestrian street. Besides- their car traffic can still access them from Main.

I'd like to see the plan for the pedestrianization of King. I'd always thought that King William would be the much better street to close off for pedestrian traffic, as it already has the nice cobblestone paving, and if the South side of King [where the busses are now] is being freed up from Buss traffic in the next year or so, I thought that should be made into walking space- perhaps give the clubs and restaurants allowances to expand their patios to the curb.

Still, I think no left hand turns all the way from Eastgate to McMaster is just stirring controversy! King Street isn't Young St in Toronto! If there are left-hand turn restrictions, they'll likely be kept much closer to the core.

coalminecanary · #**1237** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 5:27 PM**

Has anyone seen the report that triggered this article? It would e interesting to see what was actually said.

This article is utter crap and purely reactionary.

The Swiss Chalet owner is hilarious... they are going to put a rapid transit terminus practically in his lap and he is worried about his delivery drivers having to choose a different route? WAKE UP BUDDY!

highwater · #**1238** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 5:43 PM**

Take the poll!

http://thespec.com/

Jon Dalton · #**1239** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 5:52 PM**

I'd like to see the report too. The report I read, and probably most people here did, indicated two lanes of vehicle traffic through International Village. The spec could have at least gave a reference for these drastic changes.

rousseau · #**1240** Posted **Nov 10, 2009, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11thIndian

Green space is one of our key attractions.

Green space in Canada is over-rated. The really good stuff that makes it into coffee table books is hours and hours away from cities, and even so, we're freakin' Canada, fer crissake...we've got green space up the wazoo in every direction no matter where you are. Concrete jungles do not exist in Canada. If anything, we need more concrete!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11thIndian

You've got these great escarpment views, how wonderful would it be to sit down and eat a meal there? Have a drink? Other cities with similar geography [Hong Kong] have maximized it to their advantage, but not us!

This confounds me, too. What the phuck is wrong with us? There should be restaurants and night spots and all manner of attractions all along the west mountain brow to take advantage of the views (along the west, so the mills don't dominate the views). There should be restaurants and night spots and all manner of attractions all along the harbourfront wherever you look.

Visitors from other countries think we're weird. Case in point: Stratford, where I now live (I used to live in Hamilton, hence my participation in this forum), has what is probably Canada's most charming urban lake just next to downtown. But can you buy a coffee or a danish or a meal anywhere and sit and look at it? No, what you do is get food from elsewhere and bring it with you to have a picnic by the lake. Which is nice, sure, but it's 2.5 kilometres around the whole lake. Wouldn't it be nice to have a little commercial area with a few shops to break up the monotony?

The legacy of our Protestant heritage and work ethic can be stifling at times.