Canada Line | Completed

[BCPhil]

I think it has to do with the whole faregate thing. Translink seems to think multiple entrances will be a "problem" for faregates. I have no idea why that would be the case, but it's what they say when talking about remodeling some of the older stations.

There was supposed to be an underground passageway from the C-line Waterfront platforms to Canada Place/Cruise ship terminal but it was removed so the bids could be lower. It would be nice to see that go through, or at least have the C-Line station connect to Sinclair Center and it's passage way somehow. Canada Line to/from Canada Place underground/direct is very needed. I remember being down there when cruise ships were departing and seeing many people standing around the station trying to figure out the best way to Canada Place with their rolling luggage (the sidewalks are a pain for suitcases).

[lightrail]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think it has to do with the whole faregate thing. Translink seems to think multiple entrances will be a "problem" for faregates. I have no idea why that would be the case, but it's what they say when talking about remodeling some of the older stations.

There was supposed to be an underground passageway from the C-line Waterfront platforms to Canada Place/Cruise ship terminal but it was removed so the bids could be lower. It would be nice to see that go through, or at least have the C-Line station connect to Sinclair Center and it's passage way somehow. Canada Line to/from Canada Place underground/direct is very needed. I remember being down there when cruise ships were departing and seeing many people standing around the station trying to figure out the best way to Canada Place with their rolling luggage (the sidewalks are a pain for suitcases).

For fare gates a single entrance is cheaper. In London, most underground stations, except the very big and busy ones, have a single ticket hall with multiple stairways to the street. In Toronto, some stations have multiple entrances to separate ticket halls; usually only one is staffed and in the off hours (late at night) the unstaffed entrances are closed.

BTW - in London, fare gates are not universal. The DLR has no fare gates and neither do most stations on the extensive National Rail network serving London. In Germany, the U-bahns and S-Bahns (in Frankfurt at least) have no fare gates. It proof of purchase just like here ( in fact, I think we imported the idea from Germany. When Edmonton opened it's first LRT line in 1978 it originally had fare gates. They were removed in favour of the Proof of Payment system).

So Edmonton is the only system in Western Canada to ever use fare gates.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

I don't understand why they didn't add a Robson Street entrance. Was this once again to save costs? This was a silly oversight.

There is an emergency exit stairwell at the N/W corner of Robson@Granville, so there is potential to rebuild this into an entrance with stairs and escalator. (Elevator access would still be only via Georgia St. side)

[officedweller]

WRT the Expo line, I think the biggest reconstruction aspect will be:
- physical space for fare gates - some stations have little space and require reconfiguration (i.e. to place ticket machines outside of where the fare gates would be located).
- the addition of new emergency exits. With barrier free access, you don't need emergency exits at the back of the ground level - with barrier access you probably would. I suspect that emergency exits require a certain throughput of people that opening the gates if the fire alarm is pulled would not provide.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think it has to do with the whole faregate thing. Translink seems to think multiple entrances will be a "problem" for faregates. I have no idea why that would be the case, but it's what they say when talking about remodeling some of the older stations.

They seem to have overcome their problem of multiple entrances vs. fare gates with the renovations they are doing to the E-Line/M-Line Broadway Station. They've finally figured they can have a new entrance on the 10th avenue side of the station with TVMs &tc. there, and add new "this is a paid fair zone" area signage before someone uses the Stairs / Escalators / Elevators to go up to the train platform.

[jsbertram]

Trivia time:

What C-Line stations have easy access to parkades?

The obvious ones are
a) Airport Station -the airport parkade
b) Bridgeport Station -the casino parkade

A future one is Oakridge station - whenever that station is connected to the mall.

I know of two others - but who else has found them?

[racc]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Trivia time:

What C-Line stations have easy access to parkades?

The obvious ones are
a) Airport Station -the airport parkade
b) Bridgeport Station -the casino parkade

A future one is Oakridge station - whenever that station is connected to the mall.

I know of two others - but who else has found them?

Vancouver City Centre, Yaletown Roundhouse - The elevators also serve the parkades.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

I don't understand why they didn't add a Robson Street entrance. Was this once again to save costs? This was a silly oversight.

It was indeed. Not only would a Robson entrance have been convenient, but it could have been linked up to Robson Square, for commuters living in the West End/ Downtown.

Robson Square needs more people passing through it to give it life, and an entrance there - and another one at street level on Robson itself - would have killed two birds with one stone and given greater mobility, and life to the Downtown / Robson Square area.

Too little imagination and too much oversight, as you say, are the prime culprits.

And to others, No, not enough money, or an underground parkade blocking the possible entrance way are NOT excuses. Other cities with more difficult infrastructure have done things like this, and more.

There is no reason we could not have, except that the planners didn't visit enough rapid transit stations the world over, and take a leaf out of the books of the ones that work well. Travel is a great education.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Canada Line to/from Canada Place underground/direct is very needed. I remember being down there when cruise ships were departing and seeing many people standing around the station trying to figure out the best way to Canada Place with their rolling luggage (the sidewalks are a pain for suitcases).

I discovered just how inconvenient these connections are last week when I had to go to a conference at the new convention centre.

• Take the C-Line to Waterfront Station.
• Walk down the long bendy corridor & up the stairs to the CPR Waterfront Station main hall.
• Dash across the main hall & down to the E-Line platform.
• Walk the full length of the platform & up the stairs to the Sinclair Centre / Waterfront Centre mezzanine.
• Walk up the stairs into Waterfront Centre, past the shops, swing around Starbucks / McDonalds, passing through the food fare.
• walk though the connector to the (old) Convention Centre & up the escalator to the main floor.
• Find the OTHER stairs back down to the OTHER connecting tunnel to walk to the West (new) Convention Centre.
• Up a loooooong escalator up to the West Convention Centre main floor.

(Whew! Try giving these directions to someone who isn't familiar with how these passages & buildings inter-connect. ...and they have luggage to haul up & down stairs
"Take the new C-Line train to Waterfront; Take a cab to the new convention centre")

Fortunately, the meeting room was right near the top of the escalator and there was a well-stocked buffet of coffee, muffins and croissants. I needed replenishment after that trek!

Happily, at the end of the conference, the sun was out so I walked down Burrard, east on Hastings & back onto the C-line.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

There was supposed to be an underground passageway from the C-line Waterfront platforms to Canada Place/Cruise ship terminal but it was removed so the bids could be lower.

Looking at the 2002 technical reports, there was an option to continue the RAV Line Granville alignment north past Cordova and through the waterfront bulkheads. Then curve under Granville Square & continue westwards to a terminal station roughly centred on Burrard St. & over Waterfront Road (but under the Canada Place roadway). It could have a mezzanine connection to the old convention centre & Waterfront Centre on the east, and another mezzanine for Shaw Tower, Fairmont resort and the new convention centre on the west.

I'm sure it would been quite an engineering challenge to go under the existing E-Line platform, the Westcoast Express platform, the CPR rail yards, Granville Square and it's parking garage. Not to mention the extra $$$s involved digging through reclaimed waterfront soil before rising up over Waterfront Road to a "Waterfront-Burrard Station"

Maybe that can be done by our grandchildren as part of RAV Line Phase II - the West End Loop.

[GeeCee]

I wonder if it might be easier just to exit to street level via the ticketing concourse and walk to the convention center on the sidewalk rather than go through all that hassle if coming from the C-Line..

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Maybe that can be done by our grandchildren as part of RAV Line Phase II - the West End Loop.

Sounds like too much money for not much benefit IMO.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by lightrail

In Germany, the U-bahns and S-Bahns (in Frankfurt at least) have no fare gates. It proof of purchase just like here ( in fact, I think we imported the idea from Germany.

It's the same in Berlin. ( At least it WAS 9 years ago )

Berlin has plainclothes checkers though. Now THAT would be a deterrent to the "honest thieves" in the system.

They also have validators on the platform, as far as I can recall. Nice shallow stations, too.

I was only there for a couple of days, and we were checked. IIRC, we had bought a three day pass and hadn't realized we had to validate it. We were shown how to do that. I remember it being REALLY difficult to find information on public transit networks online back then. Maps, fares, costs... all very hard to come by. The Interwebs was a young-un back then. We don't know how easy we got it now.

That reminds me. 9 years ago, Berlin's skyline looked like Vancouver's did a couple of years ago: more cranes than buildings. I wonder what it looks like now.

There was quite a bit of gentrification happening in the Mitte area too... which is kind of their "Commercial Drive + Yaletown area"

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Looking at the 2002 technical reports, ....

Yeah, those reports date from before the RFP process and resulted in the "Project Definition Report" - that's the engineering report that suggested that a bored tunnel was required. That's probably why the drawings show the bored tunnel under the Dunsmuir Tunnel, if I recall correctly.

The Nelson Station and Dunsmuir Station were combined into Robson Station as a cost savings measure before the RFP process - in my view it was a big mistake. That left downtown Vancouver with only 3 stations and created a gap in the 400m diameter catchment areas for each of the downtown stations. Downtown South (south end of Granville Street (even as far west at St. Pauls Hospital) was left unserved by the line despite there being a pretty line drawn on a map (there was at one time thought of a future station under Emery Barnes Park, but that was thought to be too close to Yaletown Station). Robson Station was later moved north to Georgia Street to facilitate bus transfers to/from the West Vancouver buses (and likely improve connections with the malls).

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

Sounds like too much money for not much benefit IMO.

Quite True.

However, that doesn't stop a future politician from making it their pet project & shovelling money into it.

Remember our "not-very-Fast Cats"; or the Alaska "Bridge to Nowhere"; or our "on time & on budget" new convention centre. Fortunately there was enough of a ruckus to have the "Bridge to Nowhere" canceled (but the money still was spent somewhere else in Alaska), but the pet projects here were pushed through to completion.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I wonder if it might be easier just to exit to street level via the ticketing concourse and walk to the convention center on the sidewalk rather than go through all that hassle if coming from the C-Line..

That's what I would have done - unless I wanted to explore.
Exit the Canada Line station in the Great Hall, head up the stairs in the CP Station (west end of hall) to the Granville Square Plaza, walked across the plaza and either through the PWC tower lobby or past the Aqua Riva restaurant entrance (is that passage still there?) and you're in front of Canada Place.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That's what I would have done - unless I wanted to explore.
Exit the Canada Line station in the Great Hall, head up the stairs in the CP Station (west end of hall) to the Granville Square Plaza, walked across the plaza and either through the PWC tower lobby or past the Aqua Riva restaurant entrance (is that passage still there?) and you're in front of Canada Place.

In my case it was just an interesting experiment to see what passages connect to where, and a way to amuse myself that you can get from C-Line Waterfront to the new Convention Centre when it's raining without opening an umbrella. Now that I know it can be done, I have no desire to do it again, nor would I recommend it to anyone else unless they too are curious and adventureous.

On a sunny day, I would rather take the less scenic sidewalk route (west on Cordova & North on Burrard).

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The Nelson Station and Dunsmuir Station were combined into Robson Station as a cost savings measure before the RFP process - in my view it was a big mistake. That left downtown Vancouver with only 3 stations and created a gap in the 400m diameter catchment areas for each of the downtown stations. Downtown South (south end of Granville Street (even as far west at St. Pauls Hospital) was left unserved by the line despite there being a pretty line drawn on a map (there was at one time thought of a future station under Emery Barnes Park, but that was thought to be too close to Yaletown Station). Robson Station was later moved north to Georgia Street to facilitate bus transfers to/from the West Vancouver buses (and likely improve connections with the malls).

I noticed in the first week of using the C-Line how it starts the Granville-to-Davie curve somewhere between Helmcken and Nelson, so it's just a matter of engineering skills and money to build a new Nelson-Helmcken station on the C-Line. Another project for the Grandkids to do in a few decades - after they've added the 33rd Ave and 57th Ave stations.

[SpongeG]

yah it could really use another stop downtown I wonder if they would ever do it

[jlousa]

Are we sure there isn't the potential for a connection with Sinclair centre? Where would it line up if there was? My understanding is there will be some money poured into Sinclair centre in the near future.

[mrjauk]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Are we sure there isn't the potential for a connection with Sinclair centre? Where would it line up if there was? My understanding is there will be some money poured into Sinclair centre in the near future.

I'm not sure, but as far as I can any connection with the Sinclair Centre would have to connect somewhere in the long corridor that is oriented north-south and goes underneath Cordova Street to the platform.