New city liquor bylaw to limit sale of fine wines in Vancouver restaurants

[Metro-One]

I also have to agree with BC Phil on this, the means of this approach does not justify the ends and I feel it was ill conceived.

[rather_draconian]

Even though this won't really impact me personally, this bylaw is just stupid and is a waste of everyone's time. It really makes me question the priorities of the councillors.

Hopefully, the restauranteurs will fight for an amendment that makes it more reasonable.

[officedweller]

There must be some control freaks at City Hall (is it being run like a strata council?)

Originally Posted by jlousa

Going to play devils advocate on this. This will not prevent anyone ordering a $40meal from ordering a $45 bottle of wine. There are plenty of people that don't order liquor which buys leeway for those that would go reasonably over.

Maybe the restaurant servers won't snear at people who don't order booze.

Wonder if this'll affect participation in Dine-Out Vancouver or cause restaurants to raise their price category for the event?

[mrjauk]

What is the rationale behind making it prohibitively difficult and expensive to get a liquor license in this town? Are the bylaws similar on other Canadian cities? I've lived in a few European cities and liquor laws/bylaws were seemingly non-existent. You want a shot of brandy with that morning espresso, your nearest cafe will be able to provide it for you.

Once again, what is the city's rationale for limiting the number of liquor establishments?

[EdinVan]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I don't mind the city cracking down on Restaurants that are actually running as bars, but coming up with rules that punish everyone trying to enforce that ideology is pathetic. Can't the city just fine places that are breaking the "spirit" of the law (no pun intended) by being bars instead of restaurants and then let a judge decide. Last time I checked this is a tort society, not a code civil one, we don't need laws mothering every aspect of our lives. It should be a simple mater to bring an offensive restaurant before a judge and let both parties plead their case instead of using draconian methods on everyone to enshrine a principle.

The court system is already backed up as it is dealing with more serious matters. The time and cost involved in bringing such matters before a judge is prohibitive, and any wise judge would easily get fed up and tell the City to deal with these problems on its own (eg, by changing by-laws). Also, I don't think that the councillors themselves are to blame for any of this. They're simply responding to concerns from City staff, who are in turn responding to the complaints from business owners (ie, primary liquor establishments).

[duener]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

What is the rationale behind making it prohibitively difficult and expensive to get a liquor license in this town? Are the bylaws similar on other Canadian cities? I've lived in a few European cities and liquor laws/bylaws were seemingly non-existent. You want a shot of brandy with that morning espresso, your nearest cafe will be able to provide it for you.

Once again, what is the city's rationale for limiting the number of liquor establishments?

Exactly. The only reason some restaurants are acting like bars is because the city is making it so difficult to obtain liquor licenses for bars to open. There's obviously a demand for more bars in more locations.

The province requires only that food primary establishments sell 50% food in 24 hours. So breakfast and lunch sales increase the food total. This new city bylaw sets the period at 8 hours - only dinner sales. It's just more puritan BS culture left over from the 1930s.

[nova9]

Originally Posted by djmk

HST will lower alcohol prices. Currently the SST for on booze is 10% plus GST of 5% (total = 15%). This gets lowered to 12% with HST

Oops, you're right. But there are still reasons to be annoyed I guess.

Aren't laws meant to be interpreted?

We should really try to give it a bad moniker for use in the public sphere - sorta like how certain groups branded the 'death' tax for the proposed estate tax in the U.S. What stupid name should this law/rule have?

[johnjimbc]

Personally, I'd recommend we not adopt political practices from the US . . . it has a tendency to lead to the worst kind of exaggerations and half-truths or whole-untruths. Couldn't we just argue factual data instead?

[zivan56]

The idea of a "license" to sell liquor is ridiculous in the first place. Especially the idea that some local bureaucrat can nitpick who they want to allow to open a bar and who they don't.
If someone buys/leases a commercial unit that has all the amenities required to be a resturant/bar/lounge, they should be able to just start a business of their choice and serve what they want. After all, we are in a democratic/free market country.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Honestly, I have gone to restaurants many times for an appetizer and a beer!

Same here, especially during the hockey season.

This is the stupidest law I've ever, especially considering the cost of a salmon or steak is minimal compared to Batasilolo La Corda Della Briccolina or Veuve Clicquot Ponsardin.

[nova9]

Interestingly, I was at the Wine Room at the Fairmont Chateau Whistler this past weekend to try their Fall prix fixe menu. The 3-course dinner is $39 but if you have the wine pairings, it would be $79. The 3 glasses of wines (amazing btw but besides the point) is more than 50% of the bill - just barely though.

This whole thing really frustrates me as my bottle of malbec usually is more than my meal and all restaurants!

[kylemacmac]

If it was up to me, you'd be able to buy COLD beer and coolers in every corner store and grocery store in the Province....tomorrow.

BC needs Bring Your Own Wine licenses for restaurants.

Also, yeah, this law is mega stupid.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by mrjauk

What is the rationale behind making it prohibitively difficult and expensive to get a liquor license in this town? Are the bylaws similar on other Canadian cities? I've lived in a few European cities and liquor laws/bylaws were seemingly non-existent. You want a shot of brandy with that morning espresso, your nearest cafe will be able to provide it for you.

Once again, what is the city's rationale for limiting the number of liquor establishments?

Vancouver lawmakers, and BC lawmakers for that matter, seem to be terrified of alcohol and/or an inebriated public. I think its this remaining residue from the days when BC was a frontier region full of hardcore lumberjack alcoholics. My dad, although never one himself, would tell me stories of his friends that would go up to Prince George or Squamish for three week periods, work and then come back drunk with pockets full of cash ready to kick the shit out of whatever city they returned to.

I blame my parents generation for this current nanny state.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by kylemacmac

BC needs Bring Your Own Wine licenses for restaurants.

Alberta has them, I don't see why BC doesn't, especially given the number of vineyards in this province.

[LeftCoaster]

I thought corking fees were legal in BC?

[SpongeG]

yeah you can bring you own wine to a restaurant in BC a few years now

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

yeah you can bring you own wine to a restaurant in BC a few years now

You sure, sponge?

Article in the globe (yeah, yeah, I know..) from last year:

Banned in B.C. Most provinces, including British Columbia, do not permit patrons to carry their own wine to restaurants. Of the progressive four that do, Quebec and New Brunswick permit it only at restaurants that do not already have liquor licences. The only jurisdictions with licensed restaurants that also allow BYO are Alberta and Ontario.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...rticle1234183/

Also

Corkage (the fee that a restaurant charges if you bring your own wine) is not permitted at all in British Columbia even for wine that was acquired by the customer from a BC Liquor Store. As noted above, the LDB views any wine in a restaurant that was not acquired by the restaurant from the designated government store to be "illicit". There would seem to be absolutely no justification for this rule.

http://www.winelaw.ca/cms/index.php/...-a-restaurants

[nova9]

Except I have brought my own wine and have had them charge me a corkage fee.

Hmmm...

[SpongeG]

yea i've heard that too - they charge you a fee to bring it

I don't drink wine or drink much at all so none of this really bothers me

[raggedy13]

How much is the typical corkage fee?