Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[lrt's friend]

After reading the various articles, I get the impression that the priority is service efficiency to get transit costs under control, rather than service improvement.

Now we see that routes will be cut and people will be expected to walk further both downtown and in suburban neighbourhoods. They are also expecting ridership losses, so certain neighbourhoods will lose service if those neighbourhoods are awkward to service and have limited ridership. This sounds like service cuts recommended for the 2009 budget process, which mainly hit off-peak transit riders in broad sections of the city.

I expect that time savings will not result from LRT at all, but from streamlined bus routes in the suburbs. Unfortunately, the streamlined bus routes will also add to real trip time (door to door), which no doubt is ignored for the purposes of selling this to public.

You can count lots of resistance when the service cuts are made public.

Given the current state of provincial finances, the ship has sailed for further transit expansion funding for the next number of years. No matter whether we say it isn't fair that Toronto got a pile of money and we didn't, the fact is that a funding window appeared and Toronto was ready and we were not. Too bad.

[OttawaSteve]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The 95 schedule between Blair and Lebreton is 22 minutes during peak periods. Maybe, if there is a problem, but presumably on most occasions they can meet schedule reasonably well.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I don't live or work downtown, but I have never experienced that kind of delay in the many times I have used the Transitway from downtown.

Buses can meet their schedules only in ideal conditions. However, the reality is that conditions are hardly ever ideal, and will only continue to deteriorate at time goes on.

With the Transitway operating at capacity, even the smallest delay can, and does, lead to a significant backlog. The current construction on the bridge has made things exceptionally bad, but I assure you that, before construction began, 10+ minute delays approaching Laurier from the east and Mackenzie King from the west in the p.m. peak were becoming increasingly common, strictly due to the volume of buses. Further delays are often caused by blocked intersections at Elgin and Nicholas/Waller.

These problems are real.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OttawaSteve

Buses can meet their schedules only in ideal conditions. However, the reality is that conditions are hardly ever ideal, and will only continue to deteriorate at time goes on.

With the Transitway operating at capacity, even the smallest delay can, and does, lead to a significant backlog. The current construction on the bridge has made things exceptionally bad, but I assure you that, before construction began, 10+ minute delays approaching Laurier from the east and Mackenzie King from the west in the p.m. peak were becoming increasingly common, strictly due to the volume of buses. Further delays are often caused by blocked intersections at Elgin and Nicholas/Waller.

These problems are real.

If that is the case, and the main problem is at MacKenzie King Bridge and Laurier, why are we not diverting some buses across the Laurier Avenue Bridge? Even under the best of circumstances, we are several years from an open tunnel.

[waterloowarrior]

regarding service improvements with the tunnel/rapid transit network, see this new report
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/tc/2009/10-21/ACS2009-ICS-TRA-0015.htm

on p. 18 of the PDF there is a map of the areas that will see travel times reduced with the new plan.

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

regarding service improvements with the tunnel/rapid transit network, see this new report
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/tc/2009/10-21/ACS2009-ICS-TRA-0015.htm

on p. 18 of the PDF there is a map of the areas that will see travel times reduced with the new plan.

Interesting.

It's going to cost them $150 million in increased costs to run the bus service while the transitway is shut down for rail construction between Blair and Lebreton.

[Franky]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

regarding service improvements with the tunnel/rapid transit network, see this new report
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/tc/2009/10-21/ACS2009-ICS-TRA-0015.htm

on p. 18 of the PDF there is a map of the areas that will see travel times reduced with the new plan.

Methodology used to get the pretty picture isn't explained well. Anyone know how they got to these surprising conclusions?

[c_speed3108]

I am getting the feeling this ship has sailed, though I hate to say it.

They are now saying the cost is 2.1 billion.

The next suggestion is certain to be a surface system due to cost. And from there we loop back around


Transit tunnel cost balloons


By Patrick Dare, The Ottawa CitizenOctober 23, 2009 10:02 AM



OTTAWA — Ottawa's downtown transit tunnel project and rail corridor from Blair Station to Tunney's Pasture has gone from a $1.4-billion project to a $2.1-billion project.

More to come...
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen



More cash needed for LRT

By DEREK PUDDICOMBE, Sun Media

Last Updated: 23rd October 2009, 9:47am

Taxpayers can expect to fork over a lot more cash than first told if they want rapid rail transit running the downtown core.

City staff unveiled skyrocking costs for the Blair Rd to Tunney's Pasture line that includes a 3.2 km downtown tunnel.

The estimated cost for the line is now $2.1 billion.

The initial estimate was $1.4 billion, but the most recent cost estimate was $1.8 billion. n.

Staff say the $2.1 billion cost will rise as the city moves forward with securing property rights and completing final design.

"Project cost estimates will be subject to further refinement, including escalation to year of contract award, during these project activities," says a report released today.
[email protected]

[RTWAP]

The estimate for Blair to Tunney's is now up to $2.1 Billion.

At what point do they postpone the tunnel and go back to a surface option?

I'm completely sold on the benefits of building a tunnel but looking at it pragmatically, the best approach might be to get a substantial portion of the LRT build, demonstrate success, and build demand. After accomplishing that, the downtown core section could be moved underground.

Basically, maybe we should follow the Calgary model, on a slightly faster schedule.

[MalcolmTucker]

Well, first thing would be to cut station lengths down to 125m and start removing unnecessary frivolities like screen doors, automatic train control, and over built transfer stations.

[matty14]

I do believe cut and cover can be done along Albert Street and a turn north to Queen Street at the current parking lot where the new Place de Ville will be. Then a tunnel can be bored before the Canal. Not only would this reduce costs, but it would be very favourable to not have to go down 5-6 flights of escalators. I don't know what our obsession is with wanting to go under foundations?

[AuxTown]

As expected, the costs are now up to $2.1B. From the sounds of it, this is not out of keeping with other major infrastructure projects in North America and is well within Ottawa's debt management principles (would incur about $1B debt for the city). Here's the proposed alignment (not a big surprise) and the rendering of an underground station:





A link to the Ottawa Citizen article: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Transit+tunnel+cost+balloons/2136588/story.html

[lrt's friend]

Notice that they are talking about doubling distance standard from 400 metres to 800 metres. I live on a major thoroughfare and there will be no service except after a long walk. Transit will no longer be a reasonable option except under the most desparate circumstances. I'd hate to walk to a bus stop during a snowstorm and no sidewalks ploughed for driving. Well, at least my street will be in better condition. This is actually a bigger service cutback than the 2009 budget proposals. And they expect to see ridership grow under this scenario???

[Franky]

Originally Posted by Sir.Humphrey.Appleby

Well, first thing would be to cut station lengths down to 125m and start removing unnecessary frivolities like screen doors, automatic train control, and over built transfer stations.

Just a note on "screen doors"...
They open wherever the train stops (and the doors are) and I don't think the type of train matters. There is no fixed part to those doors, just moving glass panels.

Doors are only needed in station where the approaching train can't see the platform - so especially in tunnels. It would be safer to have fully segregated automated trains with glass platform doors though.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Franky

Just a note on "screen doors"...
They open wherever the train stops (and the doors are) and I don't think the type of train matters. There is no fixed part to those doors, just moving glass panels.

Doors are only needed in station where the approaching train can't see the platform - so especially in tunnels. It would be safer to have fully segregated automated trains with glass platform doors though.

If the doors on your train are in different places, because it is a different train model, then you need to change the doors. Plus it necessitates automatic train control which is expensive when it is not needed.

[Aylmer]

Is it just me, or is the station really deep. I mean REALLY DEEP. There were 3 or 4 flights of stairs which looked 2 stories high each. But that is outrageous. It must just be an optical illusion. /thinking

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by AylmerOptimist

Is it just me, or is the station really deep. I mean REALLY DEEP. There were 3 or 4 flights of stairs which looked 2 stories high each. But that is outrageous. It must just be an optical illusion. /thinking

From what I've heard recently, the average downtown station platform depth is now 30-35 metres. That is equivalent to 10-12 stories of stairs. As mentioned above, this is a good reason for the escalators to be broken into three or four flights. If one isn't working, then you only have a 3-4 story climb to get to the next segment. The consultant said that they would raise the stations if possible, they also said that when the depth was projected to be 26-30 metres and now it is deeper after further research. My opinion: Don't expect the platforms to be less than 30 metres deep.

As for escalators, they are still planning just two UP and two DOWN per platform, but there will also be two elevators per station. The elevators should be higher speed than the roughly 2 minute escalator ride, but again, they will be broken into at least two rides - one from the platform to the mezzanine, and another to the surface, or the shopping concourse and then the surface.

[eemy]

As a point of reference, the deepest station on the London Underground is approximately 60 m below the surface. On average, the deep lines (not cut and cover) are approximately 20 m below the surface. The deepest platform on the Montreal Metro is just short of 30 m below the surface (Charlevoix).

[Richard Eade]

In case anyone else might be interested, I thought I'd post the notes I took the other day at the DOTT briefing:

Tunneys Pasture:
- There will be changes in operations to minimize the amount of lay-up space needed
- From the west, every third bus will continue along Scott to Booth and then to Gatineau – not to downtown
- The passenger bridge over the station will need to be widened by about three times to allow the passenger volumes
- Because tired support vehicles can no longer get to the station, it will be covered with a GREEN ROOF
- Although covered, the shelter will not be heated
- The side platforms and the tail tracks are 120 metres each, extending west of Holland Bridge
- Apparently the Holland Bridge is not long enough to allow the trains around a 10 metre central platform
- The underpass from the bus island comes out at track level, so people temporarily cross the tail track
- Trains will alternate between the platforms only during peak periods, otherwise, only one platform is used
- Screen platform doors will add about $1M to each station
- A Tunneys North bus station might be added along the Parkway to ‘spread the pain’

Bayview:
- A new station/bridge to be built north of the existing Transitway Bridge, prolonging bus use
- It will be a tri-level ‘⌐’ station with the O-Train on the west of the bottom level in the interim
- The upper level will be about 3-4 metres above the middle mezzanine, accessed via a bridge from Scott St.
- The upper level has side platforms so the trains are over the columns while the lower has a central platform
- The curves for a converted O-Train going east on the lower level will be protected for
- Prince of Wales Bridge might get ‘wings’ (like the Alexandra Bridge) for STO Rapibus to go to the lower level
- According to the OC Transpo 2010-19 Tactical Plan, Bayview is to be a main transfer hub

LeBreton:
- Preston will be extended to the Ottawa River Parkway so Booth can be closed during construction
- Booth will get a new 6-lane bridge from Albert to north of the viaduct
- Albert is to be modified to have two left-turn lanes from the west
- LeBreton Station will be about a metre lower than the Transitway, and have a central platform
- Escalators and elevators will extend out from both sides of the bridge to the lower platform

Downtown West:
- The station is under Albert, centered on Bay Street
- There will be a mid-block, south-side access at the new Library and a north-side one at Place de Ville
- Alternately, the easterly access could also be on the south at Constitution Square
- The station platform is to be 30-35 metres below the surface (10-12 stories)
- The tunnel will be concrete lined to minimize water infiltration
- Ventilation will be provided by four shafts, one at each corner of the station
- The renderings show only two UP and two DOWN escalators, one of each at the ends of the central platform
- There will also be two elevators from the platform level plus two staircases

Downtown East:
- Stretches roughly between Bank and O’Connor Streets
- Central platform with accesses at Bank, O’Connor at Queen, and perhaps Sparks at O’Connor via a tunnel

Rideau:
- The station is positioned south of Wellington/Rideau, between Confederation Square and Sussex
- Platform depth near the Rideau Centre is about 27-28 metres – THIS NEEDS TO BE CONFIRMED
- Accesses are planned at the west and east ends, and on the north-east side of the Government Conference Centre

Campus:
- Positioned under the green embankment and Colonel By west of Nicholas
- Probable north access at the Corktown Bridge

Lees:
- Not much changed, it remains as a side-platform station
- Only partially covered and likely only 120 metre platforms at this time
- Sidewalks extend north on both sides of the tracks and cross once the tracks enter the tunnel

Hurdman:
- A side-platform station sitting atop a 4 metre high embankment north of the existing bus station
- There will be two pedestrian passes through the embankment to reach the station escalators/elevators
- HURDMAN STATION DETAILS NEED TO BE CONFIRMED
- Similar to all surface stations, only 120 metre platforms will be built, with 60 expansion space to the east
- The existing bus facilities are to be trashed
- The Nicholas Connector Bridge was not indicated to be a sure thing
- The station is designed to never have the S-E Transitway converted to rail

Train:
- Much of the central lawn is excavated
- The station extends south-west from the bridge under the east driveway through the bridge on the west driveway
- This is a side-platform station with a bridging walkway along an embankment to the VIA Station entrance
- The $15M Coventry Pedestrian Bridge could be extended to the north-east end of the station

St. Laurent:
- The existing upper level is generally unchanged
- The lower level remains side-platform, with the trains separated slightly to avoid a storm sewer in the middle

Cyrville:
- Station stays the same
- Minor track re-alignments stay within the existing property envelope

Blair:
- Buses will be above the trains
- The lower level will be excavated two metres deeper for the central-platform train station
- Since this will be a terminus for a LONG time, the mall will likely be extended to better integrate with it
- Buses from both the Eastern Transitway and the Cumberland Transitway will transfer passengers here

Rail Yard and Maintenance Facility:
- St. Laurent (between VIA and Belfast) is the recommended location
- The rail cars will be stored indoors

Construction:
- Maybe two Tunnel Boring Machines (TBMs) will be used in parallel, launched at LeBreton
- The TBM recovery pit may be the excavation for the Campus Station, with the rest cut & cover
- The muck from the boring can make concrete for the rest of the project
- The tunnel is first to get started
- The rail yard will be started next to receive and prepare the rail cars
- Likely 5-7 years for total construction with 2-3 years of bus (Transitway) disruption
- Bus operation disruption mitigation is still being worked on

Recommended Technology:
- It has been recommended that the City go with 100% low-floor LRT vehicles
- Power will be supplied through over-head wires
- The vehicles will likely be run in a fully automated mode through the tunnel and manually elsewhere

Has anyone else got any further information that they can share (or any corrections for me)? As you can see, there were a few places where I need to get clairification: For example, the Rideau Station is only 27-28 m down east of the canal? How is it expected to clear the sewers which are about 25m under ground? Anyway, I thought the notes might help people formulate questions for the open house on Monday.

[waterloowarrior]

Thanks for typing all that up Richard.!

[MalcolmTucker]

I still think the ridership projections they are using to justify these 180m stations are insanely high. The Younge line in Toronto only has 130 m platforms if my memory serves me, and only uses 120m long trains. Calgary will have 125m platforms underground.