Downtown Vancouver Updates

[officedweller]

Building on future park site to be demolished - more because of its bad condition than proceeding with the park.
Personally, I think this park site would make a good public underground parkade with park on top
- the slope of the land would allow one storey of underground parking to be built
and it would eliminate the need to fill-in the alley side of the site to create a level surface for the park.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20091020/documents/a5.pdf

Building Demolition - 898 Richards Street

RECOMMENDATION

THAT Council authorize the demolition of the vacant industrial building at 898 Richards
Street, legally described as Parcel Identifier 015-460-451, 015-460-575 Lots 18 and 19
Block 165 District Lot 541 Plan 210 at an estimated cost of $200,000; funding to be
provided by the Emerging Neighbourhood Reserve; and

FURTHER THAT upon demolition of the building, the site will be used for surface
parking; revenue credited to the Emerging Neighbourhood Reserve.

[Hed Kandi]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Building on future park site to be demolished - more because of its bad condition than proceeding with the park.
Personally, I think this park site would make a good public underground parkade with park on top
- the slope of the land would allow one storey of underground parking to be built
and it would eliminate the need to fill-in the alley side of the site to create a level surface for the park.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20091020/documents/a5.pdf

Is there a time line?

[officedweller]

Nope - the completion of Emery Barnes needs to be done - plus there's not much money left in the fund to build this one.
There is also question as to whether it is needed with Yaletown Park in place (which was not contemplated when this site was designated).

[s211]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Agreed - it'll cause major backups. But that's what the City wants - to slow traffic.
Officially, the reason for removing the left turn bays (and slowing traffic) now rather than when the streetcar goes in is because there's more pedestrian traffic due to the Canada Line Station.

Vancouver's traffic planners are IDIOTS. "Let's creating a parking lot of idling cars." Myopic self-important dumb-as-NDP-voters IDIOTS.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Agreed - it'll cause major backups. But that's what the City wants - to slow traffic.
Officially, the reason for removing the left turn bays (and slowing traffic) now rather than when the streetcar goes in is because there's more pedestrian traffic due to the Canada Line Station.
Unofficially - I think there are some staff that still view Pacific Boulevard (and its wide dimensions) as a "freeway" that they vehemently opposed in the 1970s.

It just puts the lie to the fact Gregor and his minions are "green". They don't care about greenhouse emissions, they just hate cars. It will be blood on their hands when some frustrated motorists runs a light and kills someone after waiting three cycles to make a turn.

Flag Robertson's tenure down as the point downtown Vancouver truly became a suburb.

[Vancity]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It just puts the lie to the fact Gregor and his minions are "green". They don't care about greenhouse emissions, they just hate cars. It will be blood on their hands when some frustrated motorists runs a light and kills someone after waiting three cycles to make a turn.

Flag Robertson's tenure down as the point downtown Vancouver truly became a suburb.

I don't understand why people like this hate cars. I mean, jeez, it is one of the main forms of transportation - moving people from place to place. Public transportation is great, and I love more infrastructure (in regards to this) to be built to move more masses of people around. But the car will always be there, and the bigger the city, the more the cars (usually the case). I'm not certain about the European countries, and Asia (I assume that there are still many who use the car, but perhaps just as much people using transportation). If a lot of people in Asia and Europe do use public transportation a lot, it's because they have a very strong system, and it's a part of their culture.

Vancouver has lousy mayors with such short sightedness. I am frustrated at times with that lack of vision. We need a visionary leader that can move this city into "world class" status, and recognition.

[SpongeG]

its pretty sad just cause the mayor likes to ride bikes and can afford to live anywhere he wants

[TZTag]

Governor's Plaza tower nearing completion and showing off its new color. Believe this one was a leaky building, used to be blue. The majority of the brick is gone, replaced with panels and new paint. It's the building that is central to the view from David Lam park, and I think it looks better than it used to. Lower part of the complex is still wrapped.

[junius]

Originally Posted by s211

Vancouver's traffic planners are IDIOTS. "Let's creating a parking lot of idling cars." Myopic self-important dumb-as-NDP-voters IDIOTS.

I am sorry but I need to respond to this in detail. I am a car owner and pretty mainstream in my politics. However I absolutely believe in these traffic calming measures - in fact they probably do not go far enough IMO.

I have lived in Yaletown since 1995 apart from a 9 month period where I lived in Los Angeles. I love the neighbourhood and consider it home. I have lived in 4 different condos since that time upgrading each time to a bit bigger or newer place.

When my wife and I had our first child we agreed to stay in Yaletown but move closer to the school in David Lam park. We bought into the "family friendly" notion of the neighbourhood and bought a place close to the school at the corner of Drake and Pacific. It is a larger place to accomodate our child and closer to street level. It is the first time we have to contend daily with traffic on Pacific.

Since moving in 6 months ago we have been SHOCKED at the incivility and down right arrogance of motorists on Pacific Blvd. It appears that many of them still believe this is part of the INDY course that ran along here until a few years ago. Specific daily complaints included the following:

1) Motorcyclists. I never had an issue with motorcyclists until now however they have made an enemy out of me. The number who drive down Pacific with no muffler at 3 am to prove some point of manhood is shocking. I was recently in Europe where I watched the relatively quiet Vespas and other motorcycles navigate through traffic and wondered why we allow these obnoxious noise polluters to continue in our cities? What right do they have?

2) Car owners who act like Motor cycle owners. The number of rude and aggressive drivers who run the lights and cross walks on Pacific is appalling. The number who have loud cars or open stereo systems as they blow through the neighbourhood is unexplainable. It really is unbelievable.

We are now moving out of Yaletown. We will not be around to see the impact of the traffic calming measures. However I fully support them and suggest they probably do not go far enough.

[junius]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

its pretty sad just cause the mayor likes to ride bikes and can afford to live anywhere he wants

He is someone who understands that the best cities are ones where the four options of transportation - walking, biking, public and private car - should all exist in a relatively equal arrangement. This is true of the great European cities such as London and Paris, the great Asian cities such as Tokyo and Hong Kong along with US cities such as New York and Chicago.

The terrible US planned cities such as Los Angeles and Houston have given themselves up SOLEY to the car. It is a recipe for disaster. Good for him and the rest of our planning department for recognizing this.

[osirisboy]

[QUOTE=junius;4512191]He is someone who understands that the best cities are ones where the four options of transportation - walking, biking, public and private car - should all exist in a relatively equal arrangement. This is true of the great European cities such as London and Paris, the great Asian cities such as Tokyo and Hong Kong along with US cities such as New York and Chicago.
/QUOTE]

The mayor doesnt treat the four options of transportation equally at all!! If he did why wouldnt he support upgrading our pathetic freeway system instead of obsessing over more bike lanes as one example. And all those great cities you mentioned have extensive roads networks that the mayor would never support.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by junius

1) Motorcyclists. I never had an issue with motorcyclists until now however they have made an enemy out of me. The number who drive down Pacific with no muffler at 3 am to prove some point of manhood is shocking. I was recently in Europe where I watched the relatively quiet Vespas and other motorcycles navigate through traffic and wondered why we allow these obnoxious noise polluters to continue in our cities? What right do they have?

2) Car owners who act like Motor cycle owners. The number of rude and aggressive drivers who run the lights and cross walks on Pacific is appalling. The number who have loud cars or open stereo systems as they blow through the neighbourhood is unexplainable. It really is unbelievable.

Fair enough complaints I used to live at pacific and drake and I agree. however by taking out turning lanes will not in any way stop motorcycles racing down pacific and running through lights since they usually come out at night. If anything with not having turning lanes will just piss people off more and they will run more red lights.

[s211]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Fair enough complaints I used to live at pacific and drake and I agree. however by taking out turning lanes will not in any way stop motorcycles racing down pacific and running through lights since they usually come out at night. If anything with not having turning lanes will just piss people off more and they will run more red lights.

EXACTLY. Better flowing traffic makes for calmer drivers. Make traffic more difficult and people push back. COMMON SENSE.

[junius]

[QUOTE=osirisboy;4512206]

Originally Posted by junius

He is someone who understands that the best cities are ones where the four options of transportation - walking, biking, public and private car - should all exist in a relatively equal arrangement. This is true of the great European cities such as London and Paris, the great Asian cities such as Tokyo and Hong Kong along with US cities such as New York and Chicago.
/QUOTE]

The mayor doesnt treat the four options of transportation equally at all!! If he did why wouldnt he support upgrading our pathetic freeway system instead of obsessing over more bike lanes as one example. And all those great cities you mentioned have extensive roads networks that the mayor would never support.

Huh? Have you been to Paris, New York, London, Berlin or any other great city with a freeway running through the downtown. I don't think so. You won't find one.

There are no examples anywhere where adding freeways made the city better. Most cities that have made this mistake such as Toronto and Seattle want to find a way out of it.

There is no example anywhere that you can find where adding freeways made the city better.

Have you lived in LA?

[junius]

Originally Posted by s211

EXACTLY. Better flowing traffic makes for calmer drivers. Make traffic more difficult and people push back. COMMON SENSE.

Nonsense. Try driving down 12th Avenue through Kits. Much more civilized, calm and flowing.

[martinishaker]

Pacific near Davie is getting a boulevard installed

[wrenegade]

I spend a lot of time at my girlfriend's place on seymour, and the noise is terrible there too. It is part of living downtown. Removing lanes doesn't do anything to calm the noise of riced out civics/accord/etc or loud harleys. I find some of the worst noise to be buses and ambulances though, to be honest.

[junius]

Originally Posted by awvan

I spend a lot of time at my girlfriend's place on seymour, and the noise is terrible there too. It is part of living downtown. Removing lanes doesn't do anything to calm the noise of riced out civics/accord/etc or loud harleys. I find some of the worst noise to be buses and ambulances though, to be honest.

Agreed. The ambulances and police are clearly the loudest and what you buy into being in the downtown core. There are clearly a few separate issues here.

In general I object to the level of noise pollution a number of vehicles - motorcycles are among the worst - unnecessarily contribute to the environment.

Secondly, I do find many of the drivers along the Pacific corridor very unsafe and uncivil for a street so close to schools and parks. This is dangerous and could be curbed by traffic calming measures.

Finally, the general proposition that any of this would be solved by adding more freeways or any type of road is absolute baloney.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by junius

Huh? Have you been to Paris, New York, London, Berlin or any other great city with a freeway running through the downtown. I don't think so. You won't find one.

There are no examples anywhere where adding freeways made the city better. Most cities that have made this mistake such as Toronto and Seattle want to find a way out of it.

There is no example anywhere that you can find where adding freeways made the city better.

Have you lived in LA?

How about something of a more familiar scale and geography? Both San Francisco and Portland Oregon have freeways relatively near to their Downtown areas.

The fact that you couldn't see downtown being noisy ahead of time simply makes me question the amount of research you did before deciding where you want to live. The fun part of motorcycles downtown is that they have just as much right to be noisy downtown as you have a right to complain about it. You're both on slippery slopes. One of the best things that could happen to our city is to realize that Vancouver shouldn't be regarded as a city with an 11pm bed time.

edit: Why on earth would you ever consider adding additional traffic calming one of the largest arteries in Vancouver?

Also if you really want to remove all this traffic from an artery what do you think is the first method on engineers list of how to do it? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[SFUVancouver]

We already have an extensive and high-quality pedestrian and road network with adequate capacity within the City of Vancouver. Focusing attention and the weight of the office of mayor on the two areas where we are lacking in Vancouver, namely bicycle and rail public transit, is emminently appropriate.

Moreover there is ample, ample evidence that improving public transit, bicycle infrastructure, and pedestrian connectivity results in reduced congestion, improved public health outcomes, raises property values, and results in more vibrant and economically resilient cities through denser and more complete forms of urban development. Example: Yaletown.

Now the region as a whole does need transportation improvements and a variety of projects are being undertaken now by the Province and Translink. None of them are the sole purview of the Mayor of Vancouver and I think he, and mayors throughout the region, are entirely in their right to weigh in on their merits from the perspective of their city and as a party to the region as a whole.

We know full well that additional road infrastructure will find use. In fact it will induce use. There are absolutely valid places where new road infrastructure is required and redesign of existing infrastructure needed. However we have also discovered in the City of Vancouver that traffic calming works. It reduces vehicle speed on side streets, increases the opportunities for greenspace and landscaping in neighbourhoods, curb bumps makes intersections safer for pedestrians and cyclists by reducing crossing distance and improving vehicle sight lines, and, yes, it does limit the ease with which vehicles are able to travel from point A to point B at speed. Quite simply traffic calming helps make roads better neighbours.

Moreover, the argument that traffic calming is bad for the environment is faulty since it is premised upon an assumption that the number of vehicle trips remains constant, which is not true. The number of vehicle trips in the City of Vancouver has not matched the rate of population growth, nor is it positively correlated to population density. Quite to the contrary, the greater a neighbourhood's density of population and jobs, the lower the per capita rate of vehicle trips. People adjust their driving behaviour to the road infrastructure that is available. When adequate pedestrian, cycling, and transit options exist they are utilized.

The built environment is critical to this, of course. That is why places like downtown Vancouver, Kits, Mount Pleasant, Fairview Slopes, etc., have had their populations steadily grow and their rates of cycling, walking, and transit use climb, while a place like Surrey has had its population climb but those non-vehicle modes barely register since they barely exist and everything is too spread out. It's no wonder that the collective south-of-the-Fraser area is clamouring for more roads, bridges, and highways, as well as transit, since there are really no alternatives to the car and the place has been built up for decades based on that assumption.

What we need now is a committment to traffic calming in our built-up areas, and more importantly, a concerted and permanent investment in transit, walking and cycling infrastructure and land-use planning that does not assume everyone will drive. It will take decades to fix the stupidity of the last half-century of unrestrained, poorly planned automobile-centric growth and in the mean time some people will be unhappy having to live with the consequences of all the poor planning. But if we want to genuinely improve and, arguably, fix the automobile-centric parts of our cities we will have to do it.

As for the matter at hand, a left turn bay on Pacific Blvd, I say keep it until the streetcar is built.